Roll Call: Do you want to trade Letang?

[BmxHockey]

Who could use an offensive offernsive, no defense defencemen?

 

[DoktorZaius]

Out of curiosity, what wingers do you think are going to be on the market that warrant us giving up Letang?

If you're willing to move a guy like Letang, pretty much everyone who isn't a mainstay on a legit contender is "on the market," assuming the GM covets Letang. So the better question is, which GM's really covet Letang, and go from there.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Like many people here, my opinion has changed radically since this last time this was brought up in the main trade thread... last week.

 

[dueling mullets]

But apparently there's going to be a barn sale on all-star wingers this year

The fantasy world we live in on here!

 

[madinsomniac]

sans Malkin or sid there isn't an untradeable in my eyes... just some would take a huge overpayment. Id rather not trade a guy when he is down in value... I don't think letang fits what we are trying to do this year on D, but they might be able to fit something better suited for him when he is paired back with scuderi.... I think if they were going to deal him it would have been in the offseason, but if the right deal comes along... well like I said, no one is untouchable

 

[MrBurghundy]

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. But apparently there's going to be a barn sale on all-star wingers this year, so we better trade him while the deals are hot!

What? Either he gets us our long term solution and he's gone, or he doesn't and he's still here. I'm not sure what your angle is.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't think I'm arguing either/or.

Wouldn't steady/solid two-way defensemen trump a dynamic #1? I'd rather have a guy on each pairing (Despres, Maatta, Dumo, Martin, even Nisky) who can play a two-way game and pair them with a solid steady, defensive minded guy (Sammy, Bortz, Rupp, Scuds) than a dynamic #1 guy who needs babysat most of the time.

I just think it's better served to go with the two-way guys because they offer the best of both worlds instead of flashes you get from a dynamic #1.

Letang can play a solid defensive game. He simply takes more risks than other players and he needs the right complement...not Niskanen or Eaton.

No, I don't think a bunch of offensively limited two-way guys would be a better blueline. I think the best defenses are well-rounded, and part of that is game-breaking offensive skill, which Letang has. What's more, we have the pieces now to make the most of that skill.

Maatta (and Despres) are a lot closer to being that 'dynamic #1 defenseman' than Beau is to being Sid's Neal.

Despres and Maatta have been steady, but they're nowhere near replacing Letang's offense. Bennett has been our best winger outside of Neal since he got his first call-up, and I have complete confidence in his ability to be that creative, mail-carrying option for Sid's line as soon as he's healthy.

 

[Winger for Hire]

It seems that a lot of the people on the far end of the "No, don't trade him for anything" side of the argument are having a hard time seeing that 98% of the people saying "Yes, trade him" are also adding on "only if you get either a killer overpayment or a career skilled winger for Sid".

I can't see any rational person saying keep Letang if some GM meets either (or both, I can wish) qualifier turning down that kind of offer.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I don't think our defensive prospects are offensively limited.

 

[Iron Mike]

I would strongly consider it and here are my reasons:

1. Finally get Crosby his long-term winger. I believe Letang could easily net something like Eberly + in return. Dupuis is not the answer in the short or long-term. His value is on the third line. It is scary to think what Crosby could do with elite talent flanking him.

2. Letang's overall play. He has all the skill and potential in the world but I am just getting tired of waiting for his head to catch up. The defense really hasn't missed a beat without him this year. Plus that article in the trib about the pressure of the contract and the fanbase really makes me think he is soft mentally.

3. The Pens have replacements ready. Dumoulin, Maata, Harington, Pouliot, Despres, Samuelsson, Bort are all ready to go or close and come and cheap cap hits. The economics say you can get similar production at cheaper cost. And Pouliot has a very similar skill set to boot.

4. I have serious injury concerns for Letang. It seems he is always missing big chunks of time. I am not sure he can play a majority of the season. I am leery of players who always seem to be hurt. The injuries he has suffered will really hurt his game down the road because so much of it is based on speed. Hopefully it is far down the road.

 

[KeepitinPitt]

What? Either he gets us our long term solution and he's gone, or he doesn't and he's still here. I'm not sure what your angle is.

I don't have an angle. I just said I wouldn't trade Letang unless the return is mind blowing. We have other assets we can use to get a long term solution at wing. In my opinion, nobody is going to be willing to give up fair value for Letang, so the smart thing to do is keep him.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't think our defensive prospects are offensively limited.

I'll put it this way: the Blues' have tons of two-way depth and some solid offensive contributors at forward, but they lack a dynamic #1 center.

Our blueline would be the equivalent of their forward corps.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm with KIRK on this one. Nobody WANTS to trade Letang, but having Crosby and Malkin means you don't need a dynamic number 1 dman to carry the team. What we need are solid two way defenseman and a PP QB. Maatta, Despres, Martin, Nisky (if we traded Letang I would assume he is retained for the short term) can carry the load and move the puck to our playmakers up front. Then you have Bortuzzo and Scuds to compliment them and you have one of the most well rounded defense in the league (not to mention guys like Dumo, Harrington, and Pouliot knocking on the door).

A Letang trade gets you a dynamic young winger and we can properly fill out our top 9. The trade only makes sense if it's a 1 for 1 or 1 for 1+ to even if out. I really doubt Edmonton would part with Hall, but that's the perfect return. IF that were the return, our lineup looks like this:

Hall-Crosby-Bennett (holy hell that would be awesome)
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal (best line in the league)
Megna-Sutter-Dupuis (fast as **** and defensively responsible)
Sill-Vitale-who gives a ****

Orpik-Martin
Scuds-Niskanen
Maatta-Bortuzzo
Despres-Engelland

That's still one deep defense with a lot of potential and is extremely solid at both ends of the ice. If someone can give me a reason as to why that doesn't make us a better team, I'd love to hear it.

Side note: I don't actually want Nisky in the top 4 but am putting the D pairs as I think Bylsma would utilize them for the remainder of the season.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I don't have an angle. I just said I wouldn't trade Letang unless the return is mind blowing. We have other assets we can use to get a long term solution at wing. In my opinion, nobody is going to be willing to give up fair value for Letang, so the smart thing to do is keep him.

Possibly, but Letang could theoretically get you the best return for Crosby's wing. Given our embarrassment of riches on defense, some of which do have some offensive skill, trading Letang won't hurt nearly as much as some people let on. Again given the right return of Crosby's long term winger.

If that guy isn't out there to be had, then you don't trade Letang. Its that simple.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Letang can play a solid defensive game. He simply takes more risks than other players and he needs the right complement...not Niskanen or Eaton.

No, I don't think a bunch of offensively limited two-way guys would be a better blueline. I think the best defenses are well-rounded, and part of that is game-breaking offensive skill, which Letang has. What's more, we have the pieces now to make the most of that skill.

If you need to have the right complement, you're not a #1 $7mil+ defenseman. It's as simple as that for me.

If Letang's defensive game was as good as you think it was, they wouldn't have had to go and get Scuds to be his babysitter, or have Maata cover for him.

I don't think game breaking offensive skill is necessary from your blueline when you have Sid, Geno, Neal on your roster. You count on those guys to be your offensive game breakers. You can't count on Letang/dynamic defender to be that because he also has to worry about his own end.

There's a reason their's only been 2 defensemen EVER in this league who have been dynamic offensive threats (Orr, Coffey)... they are rarer than someone like Sid, Geno, Kane, Ovie, whatever forward you want to name. Letang is not in that class. He's not even in the next class down with Lidstrom, Stevens, Leetch, Hosuley, Bourque. Hell, I don't even see him in Gonchar, Blake class. His offensive skills might be able to match most of those guys, but he's not a well rounded defender. He's a winger who likes to play defense, but can't play in the high leverage defensive situations (PK, PPQB, late game shutdown).

I like him, but I don't think he's what a lot of people think he is, or is going to be. He's a step up from Mike Green.

EDIT: I know I'm comparing Letang to lofty company, but this is what a lot of people see his ceiling (or prime) as. So I figured I'd go all out.

 

[Lamar Latrell]

Play out the year. Move Orpik and Niskanen at the deadline for top 9 wing help. Re-evaluate during the off-season where the D-prospects are and Letang's play relative to his trade value and contract. The obvious deal is for either Hall or Eberle as mentioned.

 

[KIRK]

Out of curiosity, what wingers do you think are going to be on the market that warrant us giving up Letang?

You're not looking at this from the right perspective:

1. If Kris Letang were made available, then there would be plenty of suitors because his limited NTC doesn't kick in until summer. Teams with no chance of getting Letang as a UFA would call. Yeah, Ray promised not to do it, so it won't happen. BUT, it COULD happen if Ray were willing to listen.

2. Letang is the type of guy who makes unavailable players available. I mean, I lived in Dallas when the Neal deal happened. He wasn't available until Shero dangled Gologoski. I ever read stories, after the deal, where teams were a little miffed not to have had a chance to offer defensemen for Neal because they didn't think Nieuwendyk would even think about dealing Neal.

That said, I don't know the names. Colorado and Edmonton seem like potential mutual fits. Toronto could be if JVR were on the table, but I see that as less likely than ROR or Eberle. Philly would be if they weren't Philly. Montreal probably would be if they had anything interesting. Florida . . . same situation.

You know, it's interesting. As I think about it, much as some people say 'if Letang were available, then everyone would call' (something I certainly thought), I doubt there are more than 4-5 really serious suitors who would qualify as mutual good fits.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I'm with KIRK on this one. Nobody WANTS to trade Letang, but having Crosby and Malkin means you don't need a dynamic number 1 dman to carry the team.

What do these players have in common?

2013: Duncan Keith
2012: Drew Doughty
2011: Zdeno Chara
2010: Duncan Keith
2009: Sergei Gonchar
2008: Nicklas Lidstrom
2007: Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer

Having a #1 D-man significantly helps your chances at winning a cup.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I'll put it this way: the Blues' have tons of two-way depth and some solid offensive contributors at forward, but they lack a dynamic #1 center.

Our blueline would be the equivalent of their forward corps.

I just think with Crosby and his Neal, plus Malkin and Neal, adding in the right complimentary wingers, Letang's skill set isn't necessary. Having guys like Despres, and Maatta who can skate the puck out of their zone and lead a rush, or make a great outlet pass, is more than enough.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If you need to have the right complement, you're not a #1 $7mil+ defenseman. It's as simple as that for me.

Then you're not paying attention to expensive young defensemen around the league. J-Bo needed the right complement. Doughty needs the right complement. Subban needs the right complement. Karlsson needs the right complement.

I don't think game breaking offensive skill is necessary from your blueline when you have Sid, Geno, Neal on your roster. You count on those guys to be your offensive game breakers. You can't count on Letang/dynamic defender to be that because he also has to worry about his own end.

I think having a dynamic presence on the blueline makes a big difference.

There's a reason their's only been 2 defensemen EVER in this league who have been dynamic offensive threats (Orr, Coffey)... they are rarer than someone like Sid, Geno, Kane, Ovie, whatever forward you want to name. Letang is not in that class. He's not even in the next class down with Lidstrom, Stevens, Leetch, Hosuley, Bourque. Hell, I don't even see him in Gonchar, Blake class. His offensive skills might be able to match most of those guys, but he's not a well rounded defender. He's a winger who likes to play defense, but can't play in the high leverage defensive situations (PK, PPQB, late game shutdown).

I disagree. Letang has been a good two-way defenseman for the majority of the last 3 years.

He's been total garbage this season and had a shaky Boston series, though, and that's coloured a lot of perceptions.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I just think with Crosby and his Neal, plus Malkin and Neal, adding in the right complimentary wingers, Letang's skill set isn't necessary. Having guys like Despres, and Maatta who can skate the puck out of their zone and lead a rush, or make a great outlet pass, is more than enough.

I understand, I just don't see it that way.

 

[KIRK]

I'm with KIRK on this one. Nobody WANTS to trade Letang, but having Crosby and Malkin means you don't need a dynamic number 1 dman to carry the team. What we need are solid two way defenseman and a PP QB. Maatta, Despres, Martin, Nisky (if we traded Letang I would assume he is retained for the short term) can carry the load and move the puck to our playmakers up front. Then you have Bortuzzo and Scuds to compliment them and you have one of the most well rounded defense in the league (not to mention guys like Dumo, Harrington, and Pouliot knocking on the door).

A Letang trade gets you a dynamic young winger and we can properly fill out our top 9. The trade only makes sense if it's a 1 for 1 or 1 for 1+ to even if out. I really doubt Edmonton would part with Hall, but that's the perfect return. IF that were the return, our lineup looks like this:

Hall-Crosby-Bennett (holy hell that would be awesome)
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal (best line in the league)
Megna-Sutter-Dupuis (fast as **** and defensively responsible)
Sill-Vitale-who gives a ****

Orpik-Martin
Scuds-Niskanen
Maatta-Bortuzzo
Despres-Engelland

That's still one deep defense with a lot of potential and is extremely solid at both ends of the ice. If someone can give me a reason as to why that doesn't make us a better team, I'd love to hear it.

Side note: I don't actually want Nisky in the top 4 but am putting the D pairs as I think Bylsma would utilize them for the remainder of the season.

1. Who are you and what did you do with Shady?
2. I'd move Orpik too . . .

Maatta-Martin
Scuds-Nisky
Despres-Borts

From Letang, Orpik, and salary moves (including Jokinen in the Letang deal, waiving Kobasew, and returning a body to WBS), you've got the cap space to get Sid his Neal, Geno his Kunitz, and some size for that bottom six.

 

[Shady Machine]

If you need to have the right complement, you're not a #1 $7mil+ defenseman. It's as simple as that for me.

If Letang's defensive game was as good as you think it was, they wouldn't have had to go and get Scuds to be his babysitter, or have Maata cover for him.

I don't think game breaking offensive skill is necessary from your blueline when you have Sid, Geno, Neal on your roster. You count on those guys to be your offensive game breakers. You can't count on Letang/dynamic defender to be that because he also has to worry about his own end.

There's a reason their's only been 2 defensemen EVER in this league who have been dynamic offensive threats (Orr, Coffey)... they are rarer than someone like Sid, Geno, Kane, Ovie, whatever forward you want to name. Letang is not in that class. He's not even in the next class down with Lidstrom, Stevens, Leetch, Hosuley, Bourque. Hell, I don't even see him in Gonchar, Blake class. His offensive skills might be able to match most of those guys, but he's not a well rounded defender. He's a winger who likes to play defense, but can't play in the high leverage defensive situations (PK, PPQB, late game shutdown).

I like him, but I don't think he's what a lot of people think he is, or is going to be. He's a step up from Mike Green.

EDIT: I know I'm comparing Letang to lofty company, but this is what a lot of people see his ceiling (or prime) as. So I figured I'd go all out.

I don't like the above argument because it can then be argued that Sid and Geno shouldn't need the right wingers. After all, they are 9mil centers.

That said, I agree we don't need game breaking offensive skill (especially when said skill isn't very good on the PP).

 

[KIRK]

What do these players have in common?

2013: Duncan Keith
2012: Drew Doughty
2011: Zdeno Chara
2010: Duncan Keith
2009: Sergei Gonchar
2008: Nicklas Lidstrom
2007: Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer

Having a #1 D-man significantly helps your chances at winning a cup.

Every one of those guys also is a PP QB and all but Gonch were PK studs.

 

[mpp9]

We didn't re-sign him longterm and sign Scuderi just to move Letang this season. With Maatta's emergence, Letang will be in a much better position to focus on his strengths. A beast transition player.