Rockets owner hasn’t given up on dream of Houston NHL team (mod: Houston thread)

[KevFu]

Just my opinion, but is Gary Bettman mocking Tillman Fertitta by saying he "would love" to bring NHL hockey to Houston?
Gary Bettman "would love" to make NHL in Houston happen

Sounds like a simple case of "Bettman would love to expand into the Houston market for $650 million expansion fee." vs "Tillman would love an NHL team for $220 million"

i still think Austin is a much, much smarter place to put the Coyotes.

Smarter than Houston, or smarter than Phoenix? And I'll disagree on both.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

I would be totally surprised if the Coyotes move anywhere. Things seem to have stabilized with the team with the new ownership, albeit with a few lingering problems, and the Coyotes are doing a good job of growing the sport of hockey there.
I would love to see an NHL team in Austin, but they first need an NHL compatible arena. Looks like the new arena the University of Texas is building won't be hockey compatible.

You classify missing rent and bonus payments as "lingering problems"?

 

[TheLegend]

You classify missing rent and bonus payments as "lingering problems"?

Do you classify the Coyotes as the only franchise with pandemic created problems??

btw.... the bonus payments were made. The rent issue currently is part of a negotiation.

 

[GindyDraws]

I found a clip where he tries to justify his thought process on potentially buying a hockey team and he brings up the AHL Aero's attendance for some reason.

The deal the rockets have with the city makes it almost impossible for anyone other than Fertitta to be a majority owner of a NHL team.
View attachment 369765

Tillman is trying really hard to hold in a dump.

 

[Pandemonia]

Do you classify the Coyotes as the only franchise with pandemic created problems??

btw.... the bonus payments were made. The rent issue currently is part of a negotiation.

Ah, the famous "yeah but what about" rebuttal.

 

[Aero 75]

Ah, the famous "yeah but what about" rebuttal.

Similar to Tillman Fertitta's "yeah but what about hockey struggling below the Mason-Dixon Line".

 

[TheLegend]

Ah, the famous "yeah but what about" rebuttal.

Actually it’s a “gee.... don’t let leaving out a few details get in the way of a good narrative” rebuttal.

 

[RVACapsFan]

I would be totally surprised if the Coyotes move anywhere. Things seem to have stabilized with the team with the new ownership, albeit with a few lingering problems, and the Coyotes are doing a good job of growing the sport of hockey there.
I would love to see an NHL team in Austin, but they first need an NHL compatible arena. Looks like the new arena the University of Texas is building won't be hockey compatible.

It took forever for Austin and the Univ of Texas to come together on an agreement to replace their current aging facility and they still needed a third party PE group to come in as well. Zero chance an NHL-caliber arena gets built there in our lifetimes

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Actually it’s a “gee.... don’t let leaving out a few details get in the way of a good narrative” rebuttal.

What other teams have missed player and arena payments?

 

[TheLegend]

What other teams have missed player and arena payments?

Good question...... maybe someone can find out.

Meanwhile.... where’s that second group who wanted to move the Coyotes to Saskatoon?

 

[Major4Boarding]

Just my opinion, but is Gary Bettman mocking Tillman Fertitta by saying he "would love" to bring NHL hockey to Houston?
Gary Bettman "would love" to make NHL in Houston happen

I don't see it as mocking him at all. This is the classic negotiate thru the media ploy. Air your preference out there for public consumption (and as KevFu mentioned above), that fat expansion fee is preferred.

This is a link I posted back in March concerning Fertitta's purchase of the houston nba team. If he needed help purchasing that team, why was he wasting Bettman's time in acting like he was interested in bringing an NHL team to Houston, when he knew at that time he couldn't afford it. Was Tilman Fertitta financially prepared to purchase the Rockets?

I'm not ignoring the fact that there's a bit of disdain held by you when it comes to Mr. Fertitta based on your posts. However, with that said, he's not wasting Bettman's time at all. He is also airing it out that "Mr. Bettman, if _(Troubled franchise)__ needs a market and an arena, I'm interested and I'm listening".

I mean honestly, I'm not sure how so many in here just can't connect the dots.

Tillman can't afford to buy a franchise outright. Obviously, Bettman and the BOG's would much rather prefer Houston as an expansion market. So therein lies the middle ground.

You either have a Bonderman/Bruckheimer type owner (or group) purchase an expansion Houston franchise or you have an existing owner move a franchise to Houston. Either way, Tillman holds the keys to the arena side of things in either scenario because I don't see a potential owner coughing up the expansion fee AND building an additional arena in the Houston market. Same for a relocating ownership group. You therefore, regardless of side of the coin, have to negotiate with Tillman on leasing, revenue splits, and shared costs, etc.

 

[Aero 75]

I don't see it as mocking him at all. This is the classic negotiate thru the media ploy. Air your preference out there for public consumption (and as KevFu mentioned above), that fat expansion fee is preferred.



I'm not ignoring the fact that there's a bit of disdain held by you when it comes to Mr. Fertitta based on your posts. However, with that said, he's not wasting Bettman's time at all. He is also airing it out that "Mr. Bettman, if _(Troubled franchise)__ needs a market and an arena, I'm interested and I'm listening".

I mean honestly, I'm not sure how so many in here just can't connect the dots.

Tillman can't afford to buy a franchise outright. Obviously, Bettman and the BOG's would much rather prefer Houston as an expansion market. So therein lies the middle ground.

You either have a Bonderman/Bruckheimer type owner (or group) purchase an expansion Houston franchise or you have an existing owner move a franchise to Houston. Either way, Tillman holds the keys to the arena side of things in either scenario because I don't see a potential owner coughing up the expansion fee AND building an additional arena in the Houston market. Same for a relocating ownership group. You therefore, regardless of side of the coin, have to negotiate with Tillman on leasing, revenue splits, and shared costs, etc.

Absolutely, I DO have disdain for a man that says he wants to bring an NHL team to Houston, and in the next breath says hockey doesn't work south of the Mason-Dixon. I have disdain for a man who needed help to purchase Houston's nba team, and then pretends he has money (from somewhere, I don't know where) to purchase an NHL team. He doesn't want minority owners, so it's just him. I have disdain for a man who says he wants to be the man who brings NHL hockey to Houston, and then purchases a steakhouse for the same price as an NHL franchise after making that comment. I have disdain for a man who kept saying "it has to work", and then witness (in person) 85,000+ hockey fans attend a game in Texas just 250 miles north of Houston. Last I checked, Dallas was still SOUTH of the Mason-Dixon line. I WILL agree with you that any NHL team coming to Houston will have to negotiate with Tillman Fertitta, but Tillman doesn't have the money to own BOTH an nba & NHL team, won't accept minority owners, and won't grow the game of hockey in the Houston area (which would be a necessity). And I will also agree with you that the likelihood of a potential owner having to pay the expansion fee, AND build a new arena in Houston, will never happen. I've been a hockey fan in Houston since the 1965-66 Houston Apollos skated in the old CPHL (I was just a kid back then, and my dad took us to most of the games). I've seen my share of Hockey Hall of Famers skate in Houston. Not just Gordie and Mark Howe, but also Serge Savard, Tony Esposito, Pat Quinn, Rogie Vachon, Guy LaPointe, Mark Messier, and Jacques Lemaire. I loved every game (except when we got our butts kicked). Unfortunately, Houston's hockey glory days, not that they lasted long, are gone forever. The chance of the sport returning to Houston are zero (same as Austin's per one poster). So all you hockey fans in Arizona who have had to put up with the non-stop crap on this forum about how your team is moving to Houston, rest assured, it won't move to Houston.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Good question...... maybe someone can find out.

The answer, as far as we know, is none. No finding out required. You just said " don’t let leaving out a few details get in the way of a good narrative”, so wtf are you talking about?

Meanwhile.... where’s that second group who wanted to move the Coyotes to Saskatoon?

Way to move the goalposts.

 

[TheLegend]

The answer, as far as we know, is none. No finding out required. You just said " don’t let leaving out a few details get in the way of a good narrative”, so wtf are you talking about?

It’s a subtle way of calling out a drive-by post that left out context. But thanks for admitting to it.

Way to move the goalposts.

You mean the goalposts you erected? I just want to know if there was any real substance to that claim or if it was just another drive by. Right now I presume the latter.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

It’s a subtle way of calling out a drive-by post that left out context. But thanks for admitting to it.

Again, wtf are you talking about? I asked you a question, that you in some way construe to be leaving out context? Again what other teams missed payments? What context does that question ignore?

And I forgot we had to live on this board in order to make a valid comment.

You mean the goalposts you erected? I just want to know if there was any real substance to that claim or if it was just another drive by. Right now I presume the latter.

I erected? You made the claim that other franchises were having problems with making payments during COVID, when asked how missing payments is a lingering problem from any other owner. That's you erecting goalposts, not me.

 

[voyageur]

Absolutely, I DO have disdain for a man that says he wants to bring an NHL team to Houston, and in the next breath says hockey doesn't work south of the Mason-Dixon. I have disdain for a man who needed help to purchase Houston's nba team, and then pretends he has money (from somewhere, I don't know where) to purchase an NHL team. He doesn't want minority owners, so it's just him. I have disdain for a man who says he wants to be the man who brings NHL hockey to Houston, and then purchases a steakhouse for the same price as an NHL franchise after making that comment. I have disdain for a man who kept saying "it has to work", and then witness (in person) 85,000+ hockey fans attend a game in Texas just 250 miles north of Houston. Last I checked, Dallas was still SOUTH of the Mason-Dixon line. I WILL agree with you that any NHL team coming to Houston will have to negotiate with Tillman Fertitta, but Tillman doesn't have the money to own BOTH an nba & NHL team, won't accept minority owners, and won't grow the game of hockey in the Houston area (which would be a necessity). And I will also agree with you that the likelihood of a potential owner having to pay the expansion fee, AND build a new arena in Houston, will never happen. I've been a hockey fan in Houston since the 1965-66 Houston Apollos skated in the old CPHL (I was just a kid back then, and my dad took us to most of the games). I've seen my share of Hockey Hall of Famers skate in Houston. Not just Gordie and Mark Howe, but also Serge Savard, Tony Esposito, Pat Quinn, Rogie Vachon, Guy LaPointe, Mark Messier, and Jacques Lemaire. I loved every game (except when we got our butts kicked). Unfortunately, Houston's hockey glory days, not that they lasted long, are gone forever. The chance of the sport returning to Houston are zero (same as Austin's per one poster). So all you hockey fans in Arizona who have had to put up with the non-stop crap on this forum about how your team is moving to Houston, rest assured, it won't move to Houston.

Seems like Fertitta is involved in pro sports in Houston though. He was the first to invest in the Texans before his casino connections forced him out. He may be leveraged with the Rockets, but he could sell a minority share (Beyonce would be a high profile buyer) and give his kids money to have a new toy to play with. When the NHL says they like your market, usually means they are working behind the scenes. Not going to get a team before Seattle comes in, but after that, there is no reason to believe that Houston is off the table. Meruelo only agreed to pay for 2 more years of losses, and the NHL knows that chances are slim to none of getting civic subsidy for a new arena in Phoenix. So it's a matter of time before they quit with the mirage in the desert.

 

[Aero 75]

Seems like Fertitta is involved in pro sports in Houston though. He was the first to invest in the Texans before his casino connections forced him out. He may be leveraged with the Rockets, but he could sell a minority share (Beyonce would be a high profile buyer) and give his kids money to have a new toy to play with. When the NHL says they like your market, usually means they are working behind the scenes. Not going to get a team before Seattle comes in, but after that, there is no reason to believe that Houston is off the table. Meruelo only agreed to pay for 2 more years of losses, and the NHL knows that chances are slim to none of getting civic subsidy for a new arena in Phoenix. So it's a matter of time before they quit with the mirage in the desert.

Fertitta is only involved in basketball in Houston. He is obviously the owner of the houston nba team, and donated $60M to the renovation of the University of Houston basketball arena (now renamed the Fertitta Center, was formerly called Hofheinz Pavillion). He has no part in the Astros, Dynamo, or houston nfl team, and never has. He has already stated he doesn't want minority owners (sorry Beyonce), but who knows, maybe 10 years from now he will reconsider. By that time, the NHL would have looked beyond Houston, to a more secure city. No worries on my part. Grow the game, even if it means bypassing Houston forever.

 

[voyageur]

Fertitta is only involved in basketball in Houston. He is obviously the owner of the houston nba team, and donated $60M to the renovation of the University of Houston basketball arena (now renamed the Fertitta Center, was formerly called Hofheinz Pavillion). He has no part in the Astros, Dynamo, or houston nfl team, and never has. He has already stated he doesn't want minority owners (sorry Beyonce), but who knows, maybe 10 years from now he will reconsider. By that time, the NHL would have looked beyond Houston, to a more secure city. No worries on my part. Grow the game, even if it means bypassing Houston forever.

Texans (from Wikepedia)

During the process of building the Houston Texans as an NFL team, Fertitta was one of the original investors in creating the franchise. He was a partner of Texans owner Bob McNair until 2008 when he had to sell his interest in the franchise because he owns the Golden Nugget casino chain (a Landry's subsidiary) and NFL rules state any staff member of a team cannot be associated with gambling. Both Fertitta and McNair were disappointed, as Fertitta was part of the franchise since its establishment

I don't think he is as interested in the NHL as his kids are. But times are changing. He may have to sell off some shares in the Rockets to raise money. Never can predict what a billionaire will do with their money.

 

[Fairview]

Well nothing will happen for 2 years, because Meruelo has agreed to pay the debts for 2 more years in Arizona. But if the NHL is interested in your market, they will find you the right owner (See Leweicke in Seattle). As far as I understand it the Toyota Centre is managed by the Houston Sports Authority, so that's who you are negotiating with. Fertitta may only be a minority partner in an NHL franchise. With a new TV deal in the works, having a market like Houston in the works would help the NHL's image. You can paint whatever picture you want of the Coyotes, but business people know you are running a league where you have had to go to court to maintain ownership of a franchise. Forced civic subsidies to maintain it, took over its ownership, and had a revolving door of owners, to continue paying debts. It's not the model of stability, even if Bettman paints it that way. I think you could find investors for a franchise in Houston, and maybe Fertitta sells some of his Rockets share to give his kids a toy to play with. Certainly feasible. I don't see the NHL giving Fertitta a majority share though, given some of his financial troubles, which is amazing to say about a billionaire.

Seattle in 2021 and Houston in 2022 seems possible to me.

Could you provide a link for the bolded statement? There was a statement referenced earlier in the thread that Meruelo will be free to explore relocation options at the end of December.

 

[TheLegend]

Could you provide a link for the bolded statement? There was a statement referenced earlier in the thread that Meruelo will be free to explore relocation options at the end of December.

I think he’s wishful speculating.

I put up the note about Meruelo being able to look at other markets come December 1. That came from a recent article by Craig Morgan on his blog site. He claims to have multiple sources on that.

Neutral zone: Scouting staff rumblings, addressing those finances, trade talk, awards ballot & more

(lengthy part here but since it’s behind a paywall I wanted to include Gutierrez’s response as context)

I also asked Gutierrez about the ever-present specter of relocation. Multiple sources have told me that, per his purchase agreement, Meruelo is allowed to explore relocation after Dec. 31. It’s a clause that likely would have been a part of any group’s agreement to purchase this franchise, given its historical financial issues.

That does not, by any stretch, mean the franchise will explore relocation. If you look at Meruelo’s holdings, they are in California, Nevada and Arizona. Geographically speaking, it would make little sense for him to move the team. As has also been widely explored and reported, better options/markets simply do not exist for a variety of reasons, whether they be television rights, the viability of their arena situations or the viability of their markets. Here is what Gutierrez said.

“We have made it very clear on multiple occasions that we are committed to Arizona. We are also very committed to figuring out what is the best long-term solution for this franchise in terms of where it should be located. That does not mean that we have decided one thing or another. We continue to explore. This is obviously top of mind. We needed to hire a general manager and that was immediate, so we have done that, and now we have re-engaged on the issue of what is the best long-term solution.

“In terms of our commitment to Arizona, I don’t know how many times we have to say it, and we have said it. There has been no distance to what we say. Alex has made it very clear that Arizona is home and I think I am a physical manifestation of that, having moved my family here and bought a home here. We have planted a flag and burned the ship. This is where we want to be and the reality is, this is where we should want to be.
“There was this conversation I had recently where someone said, ‘Oh, the team is going to move.’ I said ‘Let’s think of what kind of market we would move into. A young market that has growth, that has good weather, that people want to live in. One that has corporate growth, both internal and organic and through people coming. That sounds an awful lot like Arizona.’ So to me, from an analytical business perspective, how is this not the market we would want to be in? When you think about the opportunity that is here over the next five, 10, 15, 20 years, this is a good market, and that’s an understatement.”

So having the ability to look elsewhere does not mean Meruelo’s going to immediately leave. He’s got a huge Hispanic population in AZ that hasn’t been targeted much that he wants to explore.

He’s aware that getting any municipal help in getting a new arena built is remote. Hence the fact he’s looking at private investment solution. Where that goes is anyone’s guess at the moment.

 

[Fairview]

I think he’s wishful speculating.

I put up the note about Meruelo being able to look at other markets come December 1. That came from a recent article by Craig Morgan on his blog site. He claims to have multiple sources on that.

Neutral zone: Scouting staff rumblings, addressing those finances, trade talk, awards ballot & more

(lengthy part here but since it’s behind a paywall I wanted to include Gutierrez’s response as context)


So having the ability to look elsewhere does not mean Meruelo’s going to immediately leave. He’s got a huge Hispanic population in AZ that hasn’t been targeted much that he wants to explore.

He’s aware that getting any municipal help in getting a new arena built is remote. Hence the fact he’s looking at private investment solution. Where that goes is anyone’s guess at the moment.

Yes, that is what I understand as well. I also believe that the X man said exactly what I would expect him to say. He could have thrown a comment in about people making relocation stories up, like GB said just before they pulled the plug on Atlanta. Have you heard whether the rent for last season has been paid yet? I am sure that they would like that settled before renewing for next season?

 

[TheLegend]

Yes, that is what I understand as well. I also believe that the X man said exactly what I would expect him to say. He could have thrown a comment in about people making relocation stories up, like GB said just before they pulled the plug on Atlanta. Have you heard whether the rent for last season has been paid yet? I am sure that they would like that settled before renewing for next season?

No news on the rent issue.

They can’t really stall it for long because I believe AGM has to have something in to Glendale by the end of this month. But I would have to check other articles about that to know for sure.

 

[Fairview]

No news on the rent issue.

They can’t really stall it for long because I believe AGM has to have something in to Glendale by the end of this month. But I would have to check other articles about that to know for sure.

It has been mentioned that Meruelo is withholding rent as part of a negotiation. Who is he negotiating with? AGM or Glendale? What terms could even be altered by AGM? The main finances of GRA is/was hammered out between AGM and Glendale? I don’t think that agreement is too lucrative for either party. I am not sure what Meruelo is trying to accomplish by withholding rent? If he wants a break on this past season, would it not be better to pay the full amount when it was due and then ask for some consideration due to the COVID? It seems to me that Meruelo is just setting up an adversarial relationship by going this route.

 

[mouser]

Mod reminder: please don’t turn this into another Arizona referendum thread.

 

[dkitson16]

Texans (from Wikepedia)

During the process of building the Houston Texans as an NFL team, Fertitta was one of the original investors in creating the franchise. He was a partner of Texans owner Bob McNair until 2008 when he had to sell his interest in the franchise because he owns the Golden Nugget casino chain (a Landry's subsidiary) and NFL rules state any staff member of a team cannot be associated with gambling. Both Fertitta and McNair were disappointed, as Fertitta was part of the franchise since its establishment

I don't think he is as interested in the NHL as his kids are. But times are changing. He may have to sell off some shares in the Rockets to raise money. Never can predict what a billionaire will do with their money.

Interesting that he was partnered with McNair. McNair was the one competing with Les Alexander to bring the NHL to Houston. Their conflict led to the NHL passing over the city in the late 90's expansion.