Player Discussion Robin Lehner – Part 1

[dasaybz]

You say that like the players are scoring...?

Personally I think it's more the players responsibility to make sure the goaltender has a safety net if he makes mistakes, than the other way around. Lehner has no safety net. No one is scoring. He has to be perfect for the team to even have a chance. That's a lot of pressure, and really not fair to a guy trying to get over a bit of a mental hurdle.

Let me get this right. If the players score more, then Lehner will finally make some saves? Neat.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

We should have never gotten to a shootout. Lehner should have made the save on the second goal. That was brutal. He's horrible when the puck is behind the net.

 

[Dreakon13]

Let me get this right. If the players score more, then Lehner will finally make some saves? Neat.

I think so, yes. It's obviously in Lehner's head now. He's got a monkey on his back, and the other players on his team aren't helping him at all. Demanding he be perfect to give the team even a chance at sniffing a successful shootout isn't the way to fix that. That seems like common sense to me...

If Matt Moulson is having trouble scoring goals, you wouldn't say "everyone else on the team needs to hang back and let Matty beat all 5 opposing players on his own, it's the only way he'll learn".

 

[dasaybz]

I think so, yes. It's obviously in Lehner's head now. He's got a monkey on his back, and the other players on his team aren't helping him at all. Demanding he be perfect to give the team even a chance at sniffing a successful shootout isn't the way to fix that. That seems like common sense to me...

If Matt Moulson is having trouble scoring goals, you wouldn't say "everyone else on the team needs to hang back and let Matty beat all 5 opposing players on his own, it's the only way he'll learn".

I'm not demanding he be perfect, just make a freaking save. He can't make 1 save. Zilch. To put the blame on anyone other than him is really reaching for straws.

 

[Dreakon13]

I'm not demanding he be perfect, just make a freaking save. He can't make 1 save. Zilch. To put the blame on anyone other than him is really reaching for straws.

The guys needs a shot of confidence. What you "demand" doesn't matter (in any way, shape or form)... but the reality is he needs to be perfect for the team to win in the shootout lately.

This is a good lesson for life actually. When you need someone who's slumping to be perfect, they're going to get worse... not better. They'll get more into their own head, not less. Not to take all of the responsibility off of him, you'd expect a professional NHL goaltender to be a bit stronger mentally, but IMO the shootout woes are bigger than him.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

The guys needs a shot of confidence. What you "demand" doesn't matter (in any way, shape or form)... but the reality is he needs to be perfect for the team to win in the shootout lately.

This is a good lesson for life actually. When you need someone who's slumping to be perfect, they're going to get worse... not better. They'll get more into their own head, not less. Not to take all of the responsibility off of him, you'd expect a professional NHL goaltender to be a bit stronger mentally, but IMO the shootout woes are bigger than him.

The guy is paid 4 million per season. No one owes him anything. At 4 mil per he has to be more or less a good consistent starter. And he is a starter but a particularly good one. I don't feel any of us owe him anything.

 

[dasaybz]

The guys needs a shot of confidence. What you "demand" doesn't matter (in any way, shape or form)... but the reality is he needs to be perfect for the team to win in the shootout lately.

This is a good lesson for life actually. When you need someone who's slumping to be perfect, they're going to get worse... not better. They'll get more into their own head, not less. Not to take all of the responsibility off of him, you'd expect a professional NHL goaltender to be a bit stronger mentally, but IMO the shootout woes are bigger than him.

Sorry, but this is pure garbage.

He's an NHL goalie. Make a freaking save in the shootout. It's been over a year already. The season before last, he only had 2 shootout saves. This is a huge problem whether you want to blame it on him, the fans, the forwards, the coaches, or whatever excuse you come up with next.

 

[Dreakon13]

Hockey is a team sport, and while I'd expect more out of Lehner than what we're getting given his salary and his role on the team, I would also expect his teammates to try a little harder to help him through what is pretty obviously a slump (as it pertains to shootouts at least).

The guy is paid 4 million per season. No one owes him anything. At 4 mil per he has to be more or less a good consistent starter. And he is a starter but a particularly good one. I don't feel any of us owe him anything.

At what point did I say the fans "owed Lehner anything"?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Hockey is a team sport, and while I'd expect more out of Lehner than what we're getting given his salary and his status on the team, I would also expect his teammates to try a little harder to help him through what is pretty obviously a slump (as it pertains to shootouts at least).


At what point did I say the fans "owed Lehner anything"?

You clearly implied it.

 

[Dreakon13]

You clearly implied it.

Because I said "This is a good lesson for life actually." ?

... do you think Lehner is life?

 

[Jim Bob]

The team doesn't score more than 2 goals.

The team goes oh for three in the shootout.

Let's blame the goalie!

 

[Deleted member 27798]

I think so, yes. It's obviously in Lehner's head now. He's got a monkey on his back, and the other players on his team aren't helping him at all. Demanding he be perfect to give the team even a chance at sniffing a successful shootout isn't the way to fix that. That seems like common sense to me...

If Matt Moulson is having trouble scoring goals, you wouldn't say "everyone else on the team needs to hang back and let Matty beat all 5 opposing players on his own, it's the only way he'll learn".

Who's asking him to be perfect? Just make a save now and then in the shootout? It was like last season never ended. Two shooters...one beats him cleanly and hits the post, the other flat out made him look foolish. Sound familiar?

 

[Zip15]

Discussion of Lehner is already exhausting, and we've played 1/82 of our games.

 

[Dreakon13]

Who's asking him to be perfect?

His teammates, who also can't seem to do their jobs in the shootout.

 

[Deleted member 27798]

Discussion of Lehner is already exhausting, and we've played 1/82 of our games.

What did you expect? With a one goal lead halfway through the 3rd period, he gives up a terrible goal. Then in the shootout...same old, same old. He is a polarizing player. Until(if) he becomes a more consistent player, get ready for a steady diet of debate in regards to his play.

 

[pigpen65]

We should have never gotten to a shootout. Lehner should have made the save on the second goal. That was brutal. He's horrible when the puck is behind the net.

He's horrible when the game is on the line. It doesn't matter where the puck is. 3rd period in a 1 goal game, he's letting in the tying goal and there's not a damn thing that can be done about it. He's a choker.

 

[dasaybz]

The team doesn't score more than 2 goals.

The team goes oh for three in the shootout.

Let's blame the goalie!

Let's discuss the goalies future that can't stop a shootout to save his life. I think it's a fair discussion to have.

 

[Jim Bob]

Let's discuss the goalies future that can't stop a shootout to save his life. I think it's a fair discussion to have.

His future is that he is the starting goalie right now.

Right now he is 6th in the NHL in Save% and t-4th in GAA.

His shootout performance is absolutely an area of concern. However, there is a lot of blame to go around for not getting two points last night. And if Lehner wasn't sharp early when there were more than a few bad turnovers exiting the zone, it doesn't even get to OT.

But, people that hate Lehner love to point out the goals he gives up and overlooks the ones that he stops that were saves that not every goalie makes.

Last night, Lehner played Carey Price to a stalemate for 65 minutes. When that happens, I'm not pointing a finger at the goalie.

But, I've been a goalie and my mindset was always that I didn't want to get outplayed by the goalie on the other end of the ice and that wasn't just about the scoreboard. It was about stopping all the shots I thought I should stop and some that I felt that I had no right to stop.

 

[dasaybz]

His future is that he is the starting goalie right now.

Right now he is 6th in the NHL in Save% and t-4th in GAA.

His shootout performance is absolutely an area of concern. However, there is a lot of blame to go around for not getting two points last night. And if Lehner wasn't sharp early when there were more than a few bad turnovers exiting the zone, it doesn't even get to OT.

But, people that hate Lehner love to point out the goals he gives up and overlooks the ones that he stops that were saves that not every goalie makes.

Last night, Lehner played Carey Price to a stalemate for 65 minutes. When that happens, I'm not pointing a finger at the goalie.

But, I've been a goalie and my mindset was always that I didn't want to get outplayed by the goalie on the other end of the ice and that wasn't just about the scoreboard. It was about stopping all the shots I thought I should stop and some that I felt that I had no right to stop.

Being the goalie right now is the present, not the future. I have no problems with his regulation and OT play. The guy is an absolute liability when it comes to the shootout, and lost points throughout the year will continue to add up and perhaps push us out of a playoff spot. I cannot fathom how some people here think there is nothing wrong with this at all.

 

[Sabretooth]

It's both a problem that Lehner can't stop a shot and that we're not scoring. I don't understand why it needs to be a pissing match over which is more to blame. Anyone taking the position of "why worry about XXX when we can't YYY" or "let's fix XXX before we worry about YYY" is doing it wrong. XXX and YYY both need fixed and it's not a mutually exclusive option. Let's work on both, yeah?

To me, I'm more concerned about a goalie that can't stop a puck. He's one guy, and if he's not the right guy there's really not anything you can do about it. There's 20 skaters that can shoot in the shootout though, and if one can't score there's others to try. If NONE of them can score, then it's more likely its a systemic problem than a problem with the players specifically. It's still concerning and needs fixed but it seems something more correctable than a goalie that can't stop a shot. Maybe they need to prepare for shootouts better, have better scouting reports on opposing goaltender tendencies, practice more/better/at all. If they're practicing shootouts vs. lehner they probably feel pretty good about their moves in practice lol

Also, let's maybe not use a shootout against the best goaltender in the game as the measure of whether we still have a problem scoring in the shootout.

 

[Jim Bob]

Being the goalie right now is the present, not the future. I have no problems with his regulation and OT play. The guy is an absolute liability when it comes to the shootout, and lost points throughout the year will continue to add up and perhaps push us out of a playoff spot. I cannot fathom how some people here think there is nothing wrong with this at all.

Who said there is nothing wrong with Lehner in the shootout?

That's like saying nobody is concerned that the shooters are scoring in the shootout at a below average rate.

I think most fans that are paying attention are worried about both parts of the shootout equation.

 

[dasaybz]

It's both a problem that Lehner can't stop a shot and that we're not scoring. I don't understand why it needs to be a pissing match over which is more to blame. Anyone taking the position of "why worry about XXX when we can't YYY" or "let's fix XXX before we worry about YYY" is doing it wrong. XXX and YYY both need fixed and it's not a mutually exclusive option. Let's work on both, yeah?

To me, I'm more concerned about a goalie that can't stop a puck. He's one guy, and if he's not the right guy there's really not anything you can do about it. There's 20 skaters that can shoot in the shootout though, and if one can't score there's others to try. If NONE of them can score, then it's more likely its a systemic problem than a problem with the players specifically. It's still concerning and needs fixed but it seems something more correctable than a goalie that can't stop a shot. Maybe they need to prepare for shootouts better, have better scouting reports on opposing goaltender tendencies, practice more/better/at all. If they're practicing shootouts vs. lehner they probably feel pretty good about their moves in practice lol

Also, let's maybe not use a shootout against the best goaltender in the game as the measure of whether we still have a problem scoring in the shootout.

I thought this was the Robin Lehner thread, not the shootout scorers thread.

 

[Jim Bob]

Last season, the Sabres were 27th in the NHL in Shootout Shooting% (22.2%) and 30th in Shootout Save% (.462).

So yeah, there is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Zip15]

What did you expect? With a one goal lead halfway through the 3rd period, he gives up a terrible goal. Then in the shootout...same old, same old. He is a polarizing player. Until(if) he becomes a more consistent player, get ready for a steady diet of debate in regards to his play.

What are we debating? I don't think whether Lehner is good or bad at shootouts is really in dispute. Nor do I believe the notion that goaltenders periodically give up bad goals is disputed.

Call me crazy, but I think a goal-by-goal (or shootout-by-shootout, or game-by-game) reassessment of goaltenders is silly. All goaltenders have weaknesses, and shootouts are definitely a big weakness of Lehner's. But many use each GA or shootout as a pretext to delve into the same tired arguments that were made all spring, summer, and early-fall.

 

[ZZamboni]

So when an NHL goalie says ... "the hardest thing to practice for and prepare for is shootouts" .... We should not believe him? He's lying to everyone? Not a beer league goalie. Not a high school goalie. Not a college goalie. An NHL goalie who was in the league many years and faced many shootouts and breakaways.

Good to know the couch potatoes and guys not good enough to make hockey a profession, know more than an NHL goalie does.

Blame is just as much the players fault for not scoring as it is a goalies for not saving. Good grief.