Rivet and Peters rip The Sabres. Spot on.

[OkimLom]

I'm not discounting them because they are unskilled grinders, I'm discounting this particular take that we are too soft. I don't think that matters much in the current NHL

We have pretty much the same roster as last season (which is a point Rivet/Peters made) and we looked so much better towards the end of last season then we do now. Why does being soft lead to losses this year but not last year ? We were charmin soft last year too

Soft in the context of what was said in the podcast goes beyond the play on the ice, though it does include it. But soft is such a generalizing term IMO that I think they did a disservice using it. It could mean many things depending on how one might use it, and there aren't many players that I could say that they are not soft in one way or another. I felt if they used unaccountable instead, it would fit better what they were meaning.

Being soft absolutely led to losses last year, especially during the losing streaks and they continue to lead to losses this year. Teams didn't take Buffalo seriously enough to lean on them. There were plenty of games last year where the teams were content with playing a wide open game.

 

[5 Minute Major]

It’s about time alumni that have inside knowledge call out Pegula.

Bring the right people in to run this circus or sell the f***ing team. You said hockey heaven? You created hockey hell.

Thanks for that.

 

[Tatanka]

I think a critical point being overlooked in that podcast is that both agree it is nearly impossible to address the issues plaguing the team in season with the exception of a coaching change. I tend to agree a vet goalie and top 4 d are a bridge too far. Lindholm or equivalent might be able to be had closer to the tdl, but will that be too late? I think so.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

At some point you just can't take "best player available." Why? Because your entire top 5 prospects are already midgets!!!!! Including that your top goalie prospect is undersized!!!!!

Benson has talent, no doubt but OMG, he looks like a kid out there and no "freshman 15" is gonna help him.

So your top prospects/young pros are Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, Krebs and Peterka....and you draft another WAY undersized guy.....brilliant

The way last season ended, we were on a high, we had expectations and instead of revamping your bottom six you still brought back OK who was washed up last year. Then Girgs who spends more time falling down then playing. Jost...13/14th forward. Absolutely no speed at all. No revamp, and they still look washed up...go figure.

The one thing about NHL hockey that always held true, is that you had to be tough as nails....this team sucks. Yzerman makes us look silly, which I can live with but seeing Arizona out play us......

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I think a critical point being overlooked in that podcast is that both agree it is nearly impossible to address the issues plaguing the team in season with the exception of a coaching change. I tend to agree a vet goalie and top 4 d are a bridge too far. Lindholm or equivalent might be able to be had closer to the tdl, but will that be too late? I think so.

It’s too late, that was the point. Adams needs to take the lesson and start planning for next offseason, to give his team a fighting chance next year.

At some point you just can't take "best player available." Why? Because your entire top 5 prospects are already midgets!!!!! Including that your top goalie prospect is undersized!!!!!

Benson has talent, no doubt but OMG, he looks like a kid out there and no "freshman 15" is gonna help him.

So your top prospects/young pros are Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, Krebs and Peterka....and you draft another WAY undersized guy.....brilliant

The way last season ended, we were on a high, we had expectations and instead of revamping your bottom six you still brought back OK who was washed up last year. Then Girgs who spends more time falling down then playing. Jost...13/14th forward. Absolutely no speed at all. No revamp, and they still look washed up...go figure.

The one thing about NHL hockey that always held true, is that you had to be tough as nails....this team sucks. Yzerman makes us look silly, which I can live with but seeing Arizona out play us......

Everyone on HF Boards was happy to bash Arizona after picking Simashev and DannyBut in the top 10, but those are the picks of a GM who understands how to build a team.

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

At some point you just can't take "best player available." Why? Because your entire top 5 prospects are already midgets!!!!! Including that your top goalie prospect is undersized!!!!!

Benson has talent, no doubt but OMG, he looks like a kid out there and no "freshman 15" is gonna help him.

So your top prospects/young pros are Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, Krebs and Peterka....and you draft another WAY undersized guy.....brilliant

The way last season ended, we were on a high, we had expectations and instead of revamping your bottom six you still brought back OK who was washed up last year. Then Girgs who spends more time falling down then playing. Jost...13/14th forward. Absolutely no speed at all. No revamp, and they still look washed up...go figure.

The one thing about NHL hockey that always held true, is that you had to be tough as nails....this team sucks. Yzerman makes us look silly, which I can live with but seeing Arizona out play us......

In case you haven’t noticed benson is a kid and he leapfrogged all of those other prospects that you mentioned in the system. He is the best player at hunting the puck on the team. He’s also the only person outside of the top five that’s on a team from this current draft. You can talk about small players, but he doesn’t play small at all, that’s not the player I would die on a hill for picking to pick a bigger player for what reason? They’d maybe help us in 3-5 years when the whole team is different.

They should trade the smaller skill and redundant players, that they’ve drafted that are still playing great for some bigger players. That’s how you make it happen!

It’s too late, that was the point. Adams needs to take the lesson and start planning for next offseason, to give his team a fighting chance next year.


Everyone on HF Boards was happy to bash Arizona after picking Simashev and DannyBut in the top 10, but those are the picks of a GM who understands how to build a team.

Benson is and will be superior to both of them - they were stupid not to take him.

Also, does everyone forget that St. Louis was like in last place the year we traded them O’Reilly around this time of year? It’s way too early to give up on the season when they’re literally six points out of a playoff spot with 50 games left. If they can pick up a couple, good pieces and turn it around, the playoffs are still in reach.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

In case you haven’t noticed benson is a kid and he leapfrogged all of those other prospects that you mentioned in the system. He is the best player at hunting the puck on the team. He’s also the only person outside of the top five that’s on a team from this current draft. You can talk about small players, but he doesn’t play small at all, that’s not the player I would die on a hill for picking to pick a bigger player for what reason? They’d maybe help us in 3-5 years when the whole team is different.

They should trade the smaller skill and redundant players, that they’ve drafted that are still playing great for some bigger players. That’s how you make it happen!


Benson is and will be superior to both of them - they were stupid not to take him.

Also, does everyone forget that St. Louis was like in last place the year we traded them O’Reilly around this time of year? It’s way too early to give up on the season when they’re literally six points out of a playoff spot with 50 games left. If they can pick up a couple, good pieces and turn it around, the playoffs are still in reach.

I didn't say they were stupid for Taking Benson -- my comment was directed towards the people who criticized ARZ for their top picks last year. The Sabres board really didn't have many, but the main board was full of people mocking Arizona at the time. Whereas I think people are going to be praising them for those picks in 6 years.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

The youngest team in the league is soft? You don't say...

 

[Deleted member 346512]

This franchise needs completely fresh and competent people, starting from the owner, to the GM, to the scouting department and coaching staff.
Anything else is a waste of time and unnecessary. I no longer believe in a turnaround as long as Terry Pegula is the owner of the Buffalo Sabres

 

[Ace]

My take away on the podcast is that Adams is at fault that he couldn't pull a starting goalie and get more gritnl into the forward group, which is fair. My rebuttal would be, there are a bunch of teams that need goaltending and we're not able to acquire a goalie. So I am not sure what he could do there but he kept Levi up to long.

he’s needed one for three years. Run those calculations again.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This franchise needs completely fresh and competent people, starting from the owner, to the GM, to the scouting department and coaching staff.
Anything else is a waste of time and unnecessary. I no longer believe in a turnaround as long as Terry Pegula is the owner of the Buffalo Sabres

He's 72 years old, turning 73 in a few months. How much longer is he going to want to do this? At this point I think the fans are just waiting out the clock, wondering if it's going to his daughters or selling it.

 

[Ace]

Adams failure to act the last two seasons on multiple front is why we are here. If it’s because he is scared….I don’t know. I don’t believe he’s stupid enough to believe he has done his job. No one could be. I think he planned to do nothing until next year. That’s when decision get made on enough things that he has no choice but to do stuff. The problem is…failing the last two offseason as spectacularly as he has only hurts the future too. Not just the present. A goalie move needed to be made BEFORE this past offseason. A top 4 D had to be acquired BEFORE Power got here. These issues are multiple offseasons of sitting on his hands. It leaves them with way too much to do next year. And having shown no ability to identify good players in UFA or make trades at all.

His standing pat will hurt this team for years to come.

He shouldn‘t get another chance.

 

[Deleted member 346512]

He's 72 years old, turning 73 in a few months. How much longer is he going to want to do this? At this point I think the fans are just waiting out the clock, wondering if it's going to his daughters or selling it.

For heaven's sake... please don't! Don't paint the devil on the wall

 

[5 Minute Major]

Never listened to this before, but it's amusing at least. They're right about the obvious stuff, and probably right about some of the inside stuff... but their perspective does seem to devolve into "why aren't they going out there and beating everyone up" which sounds like what I imagine Peters and Rivet are probably beating their chests about through the 370 other episodes too. And to a lesser extent what everyone already knows about the team needing to be physically and mentally tougher.

Honestly, I don’t know how you get your take out of what they said. Having players that will make it easier for the skill players is 100 percent spot on. I don’t know how anyone could possibly disagree with that. They weren’t calling for a bunch of goons. Just players that make the opponent a bit more uncomfortable to play against us.

I mean, the freaking Boston Bruins, who appear to be one of the best ran organizations in the NHL, brought back Milan Lucic this past off-season. Do you think they did that to sell tickets? LOL

 

[toddkaz]

Rivet will often go on a long rant, and then Roy or Vanek will disagree and Rivet will just be like, you're totally right, I don't know why I was saying that. Happens all the time.

Their rants may be full of passion but sometimes they barely believe what they are saying because it's a new thought they haven't fully thought through yet.

I mean like something specific. You said they say asinine things often.

Can you give examples from the last podcast? I agreed with them but you seem to feel differently.

So can you tell me the asinine things?

Botts hired Housely because Kreuger was not yet available. The fact that Botts was so keen on Kreuger tells me all I need to know about Botts the GM.

Are we really gonna give Botterill a pass on his tenure here because the owners made him do some things? I bet Terry Pegula had zer0 clue who Ralph Kreuger was until Big Head brought his name up. Some serious revisionist history unfolding in this thread about Botterill and his performance.

No, we really are on a thread discussing the podcast what was said. It sounds like you really don't know what happened.

Kreuger was a terrible coach but so is Granato and Adams hired him. Its no different.

 

[dire wolf]

I have absolutely no interest in anything either of those two buffoons have to say, even though I may agree with some of their conclusions. Rivet is stuck in the 1990s and repeats the same things over and over. Peters is bitter and prides himself on doing literally no preparation and is willfully ignorant about most players in the league, all prospects, advanced stats, and any developments in the game and strategy for the last 15 years. They both have a lot of spite and hidden agendas, so I don't believe a lot of what they say, even though Peters does have some legit sources.

I wish Gionta and Vanek would do their own podcast. They actually watch a lot of hockey and are students of the game - especially Vanek.

 

[Chainshot]

Botterill is looking better in retrospect these days. I don't see any proof that Adams is any better than him in any single facet. Neither of them are anywhere near good enough.

Botterill hired two of the worst coaches ever, consecutively.

Adams has been parsimonious to a fault with his draft picks and prospects while Botterill bled picks like a hemophiliac running through a cactus field. That Botts could neither identify nor replace players was also a major factor in how his teams fell apart. Bidding or not, "fixes" like Wilson and Elie were not fixes. Letting guys like Hagel and Carrier go were not fixes. And every single acquisition deal he made the value was crushed upon exit without fail. Botts was f***ing terrible.

 

[enthusiast]

These two often go into self righteous blowhard mode and have some outmoded strategic opinions but they’re undoubtedly plugged in and have a more practical understanding of the league and nhl culture than anyone else willing to speak objectively about the team

You’ve got to tease out the unspoken biases but there’s meat on the bone, especially with this mess of a franchise

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Botterill hired two of the worst coaches ever, consecutively.

Adams has been parsimonious to a fault with his draft picks and prospects while Botterill bled picks like a hemophiliac running through a cactus field. That Botts could neither identify nor replace players was also a major factor in how his teams fell apart. Bidding or not, "fixes" like Wilson and Elie were not fixes. Letting guys like Hagel and Carrier go were not fixes. And every single acquisition deal he made the value was crushed upon exit without fail. Botts was f***ing terrible.

Lol very true! There is probably some rose-tinted glasses going on re: Botts, over my recent disillusion with Adams.

 

[Chainshot]

Lol very true! There is probably some rose-tinted glasses going on re: Botts, over my recent disillusion with Adams.

There have been very few GMs I have not had some issue with in their tenure in Buffalo. I'm not a fan of Adams waiting. It was one of the first things that really soured me early on Botterill - he too was all about waiting to see what they had and then not making moves to improve beyond the Scott Wilson/Remi Elie level changes. They need more. The team needs Adams to do more than just kick some tires on some things, talk about how he's kicked those tires, and still ultimately not get any results.

In regards to Peters and Rivet, I do think they have a point regarding the staff not being a demand that they extract a physical price and be harder to play against. I get that Granato has said he thinks chasing hits is counter-productive and would agree with that. I would also say that pushing someone into the wall or just stepping into a man to knock them off stride is very much a way to disrupt in-zone possession and puck support by forecheckers and is something that is big-time lacking from the team.

I usually only listen to those two in small increments because I find their takes to be so off - think of Rivet going on about Power in Power's draft year - that I know they haven't done the work to see a guy and are instead going on someone else's opinion or just looking at a stat sheet and seeing a height and weight that fit their idea of how a player should be. That, as someone who spends far too much time hyper-focused on hockey, bothers me. I feel I shouldn't know how Power plays more than people paid by advertisers to talk about how Power plays.

 

[Sabre the Win]

SO I listened......

One mentality that I hate and they often circled back to it is hiring guys with no prior experience.

I get the point and often times they don't work out but at some point teams have to take chances. All the head coaches you see with success at some point stood behind the bench as head coach with no prior experience sometime in their career.

If the NHL were to only hire proven coaches, at some point those guys will get old and you will have to take chances on new guys so what then? You want experience? Coaches like Dallas Eakins are out there but how many of you would want him? You have experienced coaches who have never won a championship and you think they would come in and lead the Sabres to the promise land? Doubt it. Look at Torterella (vastly EXPERIENCED coach) and yet never won anything with Vancouver, a retread hire in Columbus and the Blue Jackets are still bottom tier with the Sabres.

I get the sense this crying about experienced coaches is people wanting the Mike Babcock's of the NHL world hired. Well believe it or not, coaches have their choices on where they want to go especially highly sought after proven coaches with a winning track record and even if they chose Buffalo, its still not guaranteed to change the fortunes of this club.

There is no defined blueprint in the NHL for anything, one year a fast highly skilled team wins the cup and then the next year a heavy grinding team wins the cup. Then everyone tries to emulate the recent cup winner and you just continue to spin in circles.

Dan Bylsma won a ring with the Penguins and you guys on this forum were so quick to kick him out of town.

I'm actually getting tired of this circle jerk of complaining like everyone knows what the Sabres should do when in reality, proven coach or not. No one can guarantee winning. At some point, the pieces will fall into place and the team will be good and I'm willing to bet everything that's on the players more so then the coaches.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

There have been very few GMs I have not had some issue with in their tenure in Buffalo. I'm not a fan of Adams waiting. It was one of the first things that really soured me early on Botterill - he too was all about waiting to see what they had and then not making moves to improve beyond the Scott Wilson/Remi Elie level changes. They need more. The team needs Adams to do more than just kick some tires on some things, talk about how he's kicked those tires, and still ultimately not get any results.

In regards to Peters and Rivet, I do think they have a point regarding the staff not being a demand that they extract a physical price and be harder to play against. I get that Granato has said he thinks chasing hits is counter-productive and would agree with that. I would also say that pushing someone into the wall or just stepping into a man to knock them off stride is very much a way to disrupt in-zone possession and puck support by forecheckers and is something that is big-time lacking from the team.

I usually only listen to those two in small increments because I find their takes to be so off - think of Rivet going on about Power in Power's draft year - that I know they haven't done the work to see a guy and are instead going on someone else's opinion or just looking at a stat sheet and seeing a height and weight that fit their idea of how a player should be. That, as someone who spends far too much time hyper-focused on hockey, bothers me. I feel I shouldn't know how Power plays more than people paid by advertisers to talk about how Power plays.

I just started listening to them so I’m not aware of the history, but Rivet gushes about Power on a weekly basis. Just thinks he needs a halfway decent partner.

And Peters admits he doesn’t even watch hockey much outside of the Sabres, and basically is just there to troll and egg-on Rivet and give a former player’s perspective, which I find more valuable than the perspective of the expected guys and their stats.

Peter’s will go on a rant but then admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about right after. This episode wasn’t a typical one.

 

[dire wolf]

There have been very few GMs I have not had some issue with in their tenure in Buffalo. I'm not a fan of Adams waiting. It was one of the first things that really soured me early on Botterill - he too was all about waiting to see what they had and then not making moves to improve beyond the Scott Wilson/Remi Elie level changes. They need more. The team needs Adams to do more than just kick some tires on some things, talk about how he's kicked those tires, and still ultimately not get any results.

In regards to Peters and Rivet, I do think they have a point regarding the staff not being a demand that they extract a physical price and be harder to play against. I get that Granato has said he thinks chasing hits is counter-productive and would agree with that. I would also say that pushing someone into the wall or just stepping into a man to knock them off stride is very much a way to disrupt in-zone possession and puck support by forecheckers and is something that is big-time lacking from the team.

I usually only listen to those two in small increments because I find their takes to be so off - think of Rivet going on about Power in Power's draft year - that I know they haven't done the work to see a guy and are instead going on someone else's opinion or just looking at a stat sheet and seeing a height and weight that fit their idea of how a player should be. That, as someone who spends far too much time hyper-focused on hockey, bothers me. I feel I shouldn't know how Power plays more than people paid by advertisers to talk about how Power plays.

Amen.

I bolded a summary of Rivet's complete view of hockey.

I am not very knowledgeable about prospects compared to many others on this board. And it often amazes me how much more I know about prospects (and lots of other stuff) than Rivet and, especially, Peters. It drives me nuts. I've got a full-time extremely busy career, a family, never played high level hockey, and live in California. It makes no sense that I would be better informed than they are on many aspects of the game.

 

[Batch]

The problem with that is... Krebs isn't worth more than a 3rd or 4th ..so by saying Krebs + you might as well not even mention Krebs..he would be a throw in.

 

[Howie Hodge]