GDT: Rivalry night Caps @ Flyers. 8pm nbcsn

[Hersh]

do you still think holtby is a great goalie?

our blue line sucks no doubt, but so does holtby. and its ridiculous how some are refusing to acknowledge this.

Holtby isn't having a good year at all and yet his save % isn't much worse than Halak this year and is better for his career. How many goalies do you think would look great in front of the sorry defense that Caps put out there every game? Let two Flyers get in front of any goalie without any defense around and they will score on most any goal.

 

[troyerlaw]

It's too simple to put it all on Holtby or GMGM or Oates. The entire team played like warmed-over dog crap for two periods. That's on the players themselves, as much as anyone.

The good news is, we came storming back in the third, and Brouwer and Laich continued their resurgence. As much as I hate GMGM, I don't think most people would have expected such a radical underperformance this year by Laich, Brouwer and Holtby. The only hope I hold out for rest of season is that 21 and 20 have finally woken up and have looked halfway decent recently. Had they been halfway decent for the rest of the year, too, we'd have a few more standings points.

Also in GMGM's defense, he did a good job at TDL this year. He dumped two malcontents and added an interesting Knuble-like piece in Penner. Good on him. I still want GMGM fired at the end of the year, incidentally, because I think he has been given long enough in the job, and hasn't produced a deep playoff run since the very beginning. But it's silly to blame each loss on him. Grabo's injury hasn't helped matters either. I don't know if they rushed him back, or the re-injury was just a fluke. But jesus, we need him back as soon as humanly possible.

As for Oates, yes, I did cringe when I watched the replay of F16 during Voracek's second goal. He looked like a guy unused to playing center, especially in his positioning against counterattack. Plus he got stripped of the puck in neutral zone, to start the whole sequence.

But on the positive side of the ledger for Oates, he has been an Ovi Whisperer during his time here, and that was drastically needed. He has shown that he understands Ovi and communicates well with him, and he has helped get #8 back on track. That was huge.

We have tried out a lot of rookies on D this year, and we all knew our team would be suspect on D. And we have been. On the other hand, we also gave much-needed experience to some promising young guys, including Orlov, Schmidt, and Carrick. I think all three have solid NHL careers ahead of them. Hillen's injury was bad luck. (I don't know what ever happened to Kundratek, I guess he got hurt too.) To me, when I look at D, I see a decent future for several of these guys, we're just green (with a lower-case 'g') at that position. I don't think Klesla was going to be any better back there. Fans in PHO were happy to be rid of him.

Mostly, I just wasn't expecting the dramatic decrease in Holtby's confidence and effectiveness this season. People can blame it on Kolzig's coaching, or on Oates and GMGM allowing 3-goalie circus or whatever. But at a certain point, the player just has to perform. Holtby hasn't.

Here, too, I think GMGM was effective at deadline. And I don't see why in the world Halak would NOT play tomorrow night. We are running out of time. Put him in there ASAP. He gives us a better chance right now than Holtby. As does Grubauer, btw.

Go, Caps. To the bitter end.

Maybe we grind one out in Beantown?

 

[Bananas]

Sometimes goalies get too much credit or too much blame for the defense. While this defense is beyond terrible, Holtby has also been terrible this season. I thought he might be the guy a couple years ago but it is now clear that he is not. The Caps have really given him a legitimate chance to be the full time starter and he has blown it.

I'm ready to Halak the **** out of everyone in our path. Holts' gotta start riding the pine.

 

[ChibiPooky]

At this point, Caps need 2010 Halak just to make the playoffs.

 

[Bladerunner]

It's too simple to put it all on Holtby or GMGM or Oates. The entire team played like warmed-over dog crap for two periods. That's on the players themselves, as much as anyone.

The good news is, we came storming back in the third, and Brouwer and Laich continued their resurgence. As much as I hate GMGM, I don't think most people would have expected such a radical underperformance this year by Laich, Brouwer and Holtby. <snip>

Also in GMGM's defense, he did a good job at TDL this year. He dumped two malcontents and added an interesting Knuble-like piece in Penner. <snip>
But it's silly to blame each loss on him. Grabo's injury hasn't helped matters either. I don't know if they rushed him back, or the re-injury was just a fluke. But jesus, we need him back as soon as humanly possible.
<snip>

But on the positive side of the ledger for Oates, he has been an Ovi Whisperer during his time here, and that was drastically needed. He has shown that he understands Ovi and communicates well with him, and he has helped get #8 back on track. That was huge.

We have tried out a lot of rookies on D this year, and we all knew our team would be suspect on D. And we have been.

But also, I personally wasn't expecting the radical decrease in Holtby's confidence and effectiveness this season. People can blame it on Kolzig's coaching, or on Oates and GMGM allowing 3-goalie circus or whatever. But at a certain point, the player just has to perform. Holtby just hasn't done so this year.

Here, too, I think GMGM was effective at deadline. And I don't see why in the world Halak would NOT play tomorrow night. We are running out of time. Put him in there ASAP. He gives us a better chance right now than Holtby. As does Grubauer, btw.

Go, Caps. To the bitter end.

Maybe we grind one out in Beantown?

Basically agree w/the entire post.

I was baffled out how weak they were in the 1st & 2nd. Were they still affected so badly by that 3 game pts swing against them on Sunday?

Yes, the D is weak. However Holby has been in some tough, closely contested playoff series & had a win vs a very good Bs team. It's not like he's a total rookie. He's still young and I hope he turns it around. Glad we picked up Halak - I hope he has some "magic" left.
We might need it just to squeeze into the playoffs.

 

[FloridaCap]

Sometimes goalies get too much credit or too much blame for the defense. While this defense is beyond terrible, Holtby has also been terrible this season. I thought he might be the guy a couple years ago but it is now clear that he is not. The Caps have really given him a legitimate chance to be the full time starter and he has blown it.

I'm just glad fans are starting to come around on this. The whole "none of these goals are his fault" schtick is getting beyond old when our other goalies have played better.

Look, I want Holtby to be great. If he's great, the Caps are likely great. Why waste assets, picks, money, whatever on numerous goalies when Holtby can just be awesome and that be it? He's young, I like his attitude (doesn't take **** from anybody on the ice), and he seems to have his head screwed on right.

But it isn't that easy. He has been absolute dog **** this year. The defense sucks, obviously, but why is Grubauer able to VASTLY outperform Holtby every single chance he gets? Even if you throw the stats out the window -- one passes the eye test and the other does not, and it certainly isn't Holtby that is passing that test.

He's leaky rebound wise, has a terrible glove hand, is ALWAYS out of position, and his calling card was supposed to be puck handling, but I'm not seeing that either. The main difference is that Holtby lets in so many back-breaking, slightly screened goals, while Grubauer sucks up all the point shots and Neuvy did pretty well with traffic as well.

I'm not a huge Halak fan, but can it get any worse? Both Neuvirth and Grubauer outperformed Holtby this year. I guess a 3rd goalie can too before he is finally benched for good. Let him battle for it next year... but he lost it this year.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Oh, and wtf is Ovechkin doing when the puck is cleared up his side? He literally just turns and whacks blindly at it or flips it out to nobody flying up the opposite wing. Beer leaguers do that. Could help explain his low Corsi numbers.

It's embarrassing sometimes and painful as a huge fan of the guy. He just doesn't care to play D. It's something you almost have to try to ignore as long as he's the best goalscorer on the planet, but damn the wolves are going to turn on him if he starts to drop off again and he still refuses to be a better defensive player. It'll either extend his career someday IMO after the goals get harder to score due to age, or it'll drive him to the KHL where he can continue to play as he pleases for a pretty penny. I'm hoping for a 40 yr old Ovy retiring a Cap someday myself so I hope he matures more in that area as a player.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's too simple to put it all on Holtby or GMGM or Oates. The entire team played like warmed-over dog crap for two periods. That's on the players themselves, as much as anyone.

The good news is, we came storming back in the third, and Brouwer and Laich continued their resurgence. As much as I hate GMGM, I don't think most people would have expected such a radical underperformance this year by Laich, Brouwer and Holtby. The only hope I hold out for rest of season is that 21 and 20 have finally woken up and have looked halfway decent recently. Had they been halfway decent for the rest of the year, too, we'd have a few more standings points.

Also in GMGM's defense, he did a good job at TDL this year. He dumped two malcontents and added an interesting Knuble-like piece in Penner. Good on him. I still want GMGM fired at the end of the year, incidentally, because I think he has been given long enough in the job, and hasn't produced a deep playoff run since the very beginning. But it's silly to blame each loss on him. Grabo's injury hasn't helped matters either. I don't know if they rushed him back, or the re-injury was just a fluke. But jesus, we need him back as soon as humanly possible.

As for Oates, yes, I did cringe when I watched the replay of F16 during Voracek's second goal. He looked like a guy unused to playing center, especially in his positioning against counterattack. Plus he got stripped of the puck in neutral zone, to start the whole sequence.

But on the positive side of the ledger for Oates, he has been an Ovi Whisperer during his time here, and that was drastically needed. He has shown that he understands Ovi and communicates well with him, and he has helped get #8 back on track. That was huge.

We have tried out a lot of rookies on D this year, and we all knew our team would be suspect on D. And we have been. On the other hand, we also gave much-needed experience to some promising young guys, including Orlov, Schmidt, and Carrick. I think all three have solid NHL careers ahead of them. Hillen's injury was bad luck. (I don't know what ever happened to Kundratek, I guess he got hurt too.) To me, when I look at D, I see a decent future for several of these guys, we're just green (with a lower-case 'g') at that position. I don't think Klesla was going to be any better back there. Fans in PHO were happy to be rid of him.

Mostly, I just wasn't expecting the dramatic decrease in Holtby's confidence and effectiveness this season. People can blame it on Kolzig's coaching, or on Oates and GMGM allowing 3-goalie circus or whatever. But at a certain point, the player just has to perform. Holtby hasn't.

Here, too, I think GMGM was effective at deadline. And I don't see why in the world Halak would NOT play tomorrow night. We are running out of time. Put him in there ASAP. He gives us a better chance right now than Holtby. As does Grubauer, btw.

Go, Caps. To the bitter end.

Maybe we grind one out in Beantown?

Great post...

 

[ChibiPooky]

It's embarrassing sometimes and painful as a huge fan of the guy. He just doesn't care to play D. It's something you almost have to try to ignore as long as he's the best goalscorer on the planet, but damn the wolves are going to turn on him if he starts to drop off again and he still refuses to be a better defensive player. It'll either extend his career someday IMO after the goals get harder to score due to age, or it'll drive him to the KHL where he can continue to play as he pleases for a pretty penny. I'm hoping for a 40 yr old Ovy retiring a Cap someday myself so I hope he matures more in that area as a player.

It's weird though. These are offense-focused actions. It's almost like he's resigned himself to being a spot shooter.

 

[g00n]

do you still think holtby is a great goalie?

our blue line sucks no doubt, but so does holtby. and its ridiculous how some are refusing to acknowledge this.

I called him out even on the first goal tonight, and again later. Three or four players screwed up on the first goal and as I said when it happened you need Holtby to bail you out on some of those. He hasn't been doing that consistently, and early on he was overplaying and getting way out of position. I said as much. He was not in full control mentally or physically to start the game.

The 2nd goal was the PP goal, I think, and that was with two Caps and a Flyer screening him. What goaltender in NHL history can see through 1 player, nevermind 3? Yet people blamed Holtby. Stupid.

The 3rd goal was the point-blank shot from Giroux after Green made a horrible turnover right in front of the net. That also isn't on Holtby. The 4th goal I don't recall offhand but I had that one in the column of being stoppable and Holtby's responsibility.

So any reasonable person would see 2 goals that were Holtby's fault and 2 that weren't. At the time the Caps were completely being dominated and behind in shots 18-4. It was a horrible showing by the team, including Holtby who didn't really make any highlight saves to help his cause.


Holtby has lost the bedrock of his game which was his mental game and his composure. His reaction to letting in goals is completely different than what it used to be, and he is reinforcing negative emotions and attitudes about his game every time he fails, making it more likely to happen again. Progressively, subconsciously, he's going to be more likely to let in the borderline goals as well since his previously trustworthy unconscious ability will carry the seeds of potential failure planted previously.

We know Kolzig has messed with him and we don't know how much that's still affecting him. The ability to blow off a goal and rely on your ability is undermined when you are forced to think about everything you're doing and you no longer trust that merely forgetting about a bad play or outcome is enough to "reset" everything. Right now nothing is working in that regard, or at least it isn't working as consistently as it used to. This is like a golfer getting worse before getting better during a swing change.

A bad game just hours after his boss trades for a veteran goaltender is a test of Holtby's psyche, and he failed that SPECIFIC test based on the WAY HE RESPONDED, not the results on the tally sheet. That doesn't mean he flat out sucks or he played as bad as the score indicates. We know he can do better because we've seen it, even under pressure and in the playoffs.

Holtby is a good goalie with serious issues at the moment. He is at a crossroads in his career, in my opinion, and he can either rise to the occasion and block out the distractions or he can crumble and watch his career sink.

 

[RandyHolt]

OMG. Do you realize what just happened? Alzner 6 seconds on the PP and he gets the assist for this goal.

Who'd a thunk it.

RandyHolt I think you wanted to see KA given a chance on the PP. Here you go.

Somebody must have screwed up the lines.

Hillen will snatch away any future PP time for a LD.

But we had a little comeback there giving my thought we were going to come back some life.

Great write up on the fight that you did previously.

Stoa has quite a story to tell. Guys wanting to fight all around him, tied up with a fly, Simmonds rough housing him. And of course the body checks he took were top notch.

 

[g00n]

I'm just glad fans are starting to come around on this. The whole "none of these goals are his fault" schtick is getting beyond old when our other goalies have played better.

Look, I want Holtby to be great. If he's great, the Caps are likely great. Why waste assets, picks, money, whatever on numerous goalies when Holtby can just be awesome and that be it? He's young, I like his attitude (doesn't take **** from anybody on the ice), and he seems to have his head screwed on right.

But it isn't that easy. He has been absolute dog **** this year. The defense sucks, obviously, but why is Grubauer able to VASTLY outperform Holtby every single chance he gets? Even if you throw the stats out the window -- one passes the eye test and the other does not, and it certainly isn't Holtby that is passing that test.

Are people forgetting how bad Grubauer was in his last 2 games before being sent down? What would people here have said if Holtby had been the one to give up that game winner instead of Grubauer? They'd have said he sucked, wouldn't they?

This team's defense and Oates' system eventually wore Grubauer down, too. How many goalies has this organization brought in, burned out and tossed away since Kolzig, all because GMGM never replenished the blueline he inherited and refuses to hire experienced coaches?

It will happen again no matter who is in net. Someone gets a shot, they excel for a while, then they fade. Even if Halak steps in and enjoys some early momentum I see him eventually sharing that same fate if there aren't changes in front of him.

When Grubauer was hot, I said ride him. When he and Holtby were struggling and Neuvirth was sitting, I said give Neuvy a shot. It's all you can do in this situation. Just don't expect shutouts and zero "softies" every night, and be prepared for some horrible games like last night that even Patrick Roy couldn't salvage.

 

[trick9]

1 point away from PO spot but Columbus has game in hand, 2 points away from NYR who have also played 63 games. Both have been on a good roll (6-3-1).

Currently standing 18th overall, and just 6 points ahead of Nashville which would right now be most likely 6th overall pick. Many teams behind (excluding Vancouver) have game in hand aswell.

Which one is more realistic and which one should they target?

I think playoffs would be nice since to even get there would require some Halak-lite performances from the past and that is certainly necessary to have even a chance to beat the Pens. Then again if we would just get swept by one of our biggest rivals (which would happen with this goaltending and defense) i think i would be happy walking away with top-10 pick.

 

[RandyHolt]

McPhee's handling of his young goalies has been a monumental failure. They need to develop, and they need to play. One bad goal, and the goalie competition is in their heads. Starter by committee may work but it needs to be well managed, but someone is getting shorted development time.

Letting Oates and Kolzig almost ruin them by having them reinvent how they play, was just the icing on the cake. Neuvy is gone.

We are front heavy with Ovi and his cap hit. And maybe with his general disdain for defense. So what does George do all season, runs overloaded at forward and neglects the D. And G, until today at least.

Halak is facing a tall task but I think we needed a vet G (was hoping a backup vet) and clearly, Kolzig was not that guy.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

That's one of the worst games I've seen from Mike Green. Weak on the puck and scared of contact. Maybe he rushed to come back from his concussion, but he looked terrible.

 

[RandyHolt]

Green was run at early and often. He looked like he had flashed back to the days of having no idea how to protect himself, no awareness of surroundings, boards, guy about to nail him, body position to take hits etc.

When guys start hitting him like that, I think it would be wise for him to hit someone himself. Why does he NEVER hit anyone anymore? Not that he ever consistently did, but a guy that just lets himself get punched in the mouth over and over, eventually I want someone that shows more fight.

 

[strungout]

That's one of the worst games I've seen from Mike Green. Weak on the puck and scared of contact. Maybe he rushed to come back from his concussion, but he looked terrible.

Bold for emphasis.

 

[RandyHolt]

Downey gets to shoot at ENGs from before center red, Ovi... nope.

The more games I see the more I think Oates is an idiot. For such a cerebral guy, he must be over thinking far too much in what is really a simple game.

 

[Icetime]

Mike Green is the definition of a Fool's Gold Hockey player.

He is a tremendously inconsistent player who looks like he could care
less about his weaknesses. He is a spoiled brat. Spoiled rotten.

The fact that GMGM doesn't see it is professional negligence in my opinion.

 

[strungout]

I dont think he's spoiled. He's a really good hockey player.

He's just a *****.

 

[um]

Mike Green is the definition of a Fool's Gold Hockey player.

He is a tremendously inconsistent player who looks like he could care
less about his weaknesses. He is a spoiled brat. Spoiled rotten.

The fact that GMGM doesn't see it is professional negligence in my opinion.

he looks like a guy with injury problems, he wasnt this bad before 2010-2011.

 

[trick9]

At times he looks like the easiest guy to play against in the whole NHL.

Pound him few times since he has no clue of how to protech himself and he'll start to rush things trying to avoid those hits and those often lead to turnovers.

 

[Bure]

I dont think he's spoiled. He's a really good hockey player.

He's just a *****.

He is definitely scared at times that's for sure.

 

[ChibiPooky]

The 3rd goal was the point-blank shot from Giroux after Green made a horrible turnover right in front of the net. That also isn't on Holtby. The 4th goal I don't recall offhand but I had that one in the column of being stoppable and Holtby's responsibility.

Extremely small nit here and I agree with the rest of your post, and maybe Holtby feels differently than I do, but as a goalie, I would want that 3rd goal back. He got caught watching Green's train wreck (which, in fairness, I don't think anybody except Giroux could look away from) and was off both his depth and angle.

 

[g00n]

Extremely small nit here and I agree with the rest of your post, and maybe Holtby feels differently than I do, but as a goalie, I would want that 3rd goal back. He got caught watching Green's train wreck (which, in fairness, I don't think anybody except Giroux could look away from) and was off both his depth and angle.

Arguable but the play happened so fast right on the side while Holtby was getting set after playing the puck, right? It was a quick turnover and shot that came out of nowhere. More of a symptom of the entire game's flow than a simple "softie" imo.