Proposal: Rielly for an age equivilant RHD

[Randy Randerson]

Nylander and Marner were the results of some terrible collapses by the team. Matthews was a pure tank job.

Liljegren we kind of fluked into. I actually thought we'd finish towards the bottom again last year and draft Liljegren 2nd or 3rd overall but instead we made the play-offs and still got to draft Liljegren. It would be nice if he turned into a home run for us.

sorry that's right, I thought the Phaneuf trade was before we drafted Marner but I got the years mixed up

will edit

 

[WTFMAN99]

sorry that's right, I thought the Phaneuf trade was before we drafted Marner but I got the years mixed up

will edit

Timeline can be easy to mess up. We basically inadvertently started to tank for a couple years before the official tank year for Matthews.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Would rather see if he can elevate his game this year before any decision to trade Reilly for a RHD is made.

 

[Starat327]

Not weird at all that they finished 13th in the league and top-10 in all the possession metrics, actually.

what's weird is all those teams whose fans are convinced all their players are better than their leafs counterparts finished where they did. these fans conveniently choose to blame this all on coaching.

I would have expected better from the 3 top pairing D I've heard discussesd recently, and multiple elite forwards, that's all.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

yeah, Hyman and Brown were top PKers, willy wasn't used there.

And Willy was used heavily on the PP. Your arguments are falling apart.

The objective professionals are the coaches and management of both Team Canada and Team North America.

So one coach decided to play a Rielly on the weaker left side more than Trouba on the stacked right side counts as all objective professionals? As for Canada, no one thinks Boumeester is a better defenceman than PK Subban.

as for the metrics, they all show that Rielly is the only one of these young dmen that has been relief upon for true #1 dman matchups, and he's still managed to put up comparable possession numbers.

First off, Rielly has not done a good job facing the toughest assignments on his team. Secondly, if QoC is your idea of "all of the metrics", you're going to have a bad time. Third, comparable is a synonym for "worse" on these boards.

 

[zeke]

And Willy was used heavily on the PP. Your arguments are falling apart.

yes, good players play the PP.

So one coach decided to play a Rielly on the weaker left side more than Trouba on the stacked right side counts as all objective professionals? As for Canada, no one thinks Boumeester is a better defenceman than PK Subban.

Rielly has been the #1 dman on the most recent two international teams, up against all these dmen who are supposedly better than him.

that's not my fault.

First off, Rielly has not done a good job facing the toughest assignments on his team. Secondly, if QoC is your idea of "all of the metrics", you're going to have a bad time. Third, comparable is a synonym for "worse" on these boards.

1.Rielly has put up amongst the best numbers amongst those with similar elite competition. the likes of vlasic keith pietro etc.
2.toiqoc, ozs%, etc. all the metrics.
3.pretty much exactly the same as trouba's the last 2yrs, but against far tougher comp.

 

[jetsjetsjets]

yes, good players play the PP.

So you can't explain why your logic applies to Rielly but not Nylander is what you're telling me.

Rielly has been the #1 dman on the most recent two international teams, up against all these dmen who are supposedly better than him.

that's not my fault.

Trouba isn't Canadian. Results over years > Results in a few hand-picked games.

1.Rielly has put up amongst the best numbers amongst those with similar elite competition. the likes of vlasic keith pietro etc.

No he hasn't

2.toiqoc, ozs%, etc. all the metrics.

Wow, you couldn't have chosen much worse stats without context. Maybe take a look at how he produces with all of those zone starts. While we're at it lets look at +/- to determine who's better

toiQoC is slightly better than QoC. Also, Trouba plays 3 minutes more per night which as you should know is a flaw of QoC.

3.pretty much exactly the same as trouba's the last 2yrs, but against far tougher comp.

Worse than Trouba over the last 2 years, much worse over the last 1 year, worse over their careers.

 

[Brian McDavid]

So you can't explain why your logic applies to Rielly but not Nylander is what you're telling me.

Trouba isn't Canadian. Results over years > Results in a few hand-picked games.

No he hasn't

Wow, you couldn't have chosen much worse statswithout context. Maybe take a look at how he produces with all of those zone starts. While we're add it lets look at +/- to determine who's better

toiQoC is slightly better than QoC. Also, Trouba plays 3 minutes more per night which as you should know is a flaw of QoC.

Worse than Trouba over the last 2 years, much worse over the last 1 year, worse over their careers.

Zeke continues to throw out blanket statements that are inherently untrue... it's a long slow climb back to credibility my friend

 

[Viqsi]

Not weird at all that they finished 13th in the league and top-10 in all the possession metrics, actually.

what's weird is all those teams whose fans are convinced all their players are better than their leafs counterparts finished where they did. these fans conveniently choose to blame this all on coaching.

Quality forwards != quality defensemen. The Leafs have a barely acceptable blueline, not a good one.

* * *​

Insisting that Rielly is on par with the rest of these top young dmen is not insisting he is a legendary superstar.

Um. You've been insisting that he was clearly better than all of them. That's why you're getting the reaction you've been getting.

Here's a thought - for a team that leaned so hard on Rielly as a #1D, how well did Team NA do defensively?

 

[zeke]

So you can't explain why your logic applies to Rielly but not Nylander is what you're telling me.

Willy doesn't PK. not sure what the issue is.

Trouba isn't Canadian. Results over years > Results in a few hand-picked games.

recent opinion of unbiased hockey pros using them on he same team > jets fans

No he hasn't

he has.

Wow, you couldn't have chosen much worse stats without context. Maybe take a look at how he produces with all of those zone starts. While we're at it lets look at +/- to determine who's better

toiQoC is slightly better than QoC. Also, Trouba plays 3 minutes more per night which as you should know is a flaw of QoC.

the stats I used are the best we have, and both are crucial to consider. but hey you are right that total ice does matter to qoc. of course, it's only a 1 minute difference at even strength.

Worse than Trouba over the last 2 years, much worse over the last 1 year, worse over their careers.

last 2yrs

Rielly (23): 158gms, 22:43, 0.96esp/60, 3.07ppp/60, 50.5cf%, -0.9rel, 46.9ozs%
Trouba (23): 141gms, 23:18, 0.96esp/60, 2.37ppp/60, 50.6cf%, -0.2rel, 49.4ozs%

near identical performance, but rielly in much more difficult usage. in a week corsica will re-open and i'll add in the toiqoc, which shows the gap even more clearly.

 

[Apotheosis]

Right when Rielly looks a lot better, you want to trade him?

 

[zeke]

Zeke continues to throw out blanket statements that are inherently untrue... it's a long slow climb back to credibility my friend

fyi, credibility comes from successful analysis that proves correct in reality, not from internet popularity.

 

[zeke]

Quality forwards != quality defensemen. The Leafs have a barely acceptable blueline, not a good one.

they have a very talented, very deep young blueline.

hfboards will be forced to clue into this eventually

 

[Viqsi]

they have a very talented, very deep young blueline.

hfboards will be forced to clue into this eventually

That turn of phrase is used to describe teams like Carolina and Columbus, and the Leafs are nowhere near that. You need multiple high-skill high-talent guys, and the Leafs only have that on offense. There's no "Matthews-Marner-Nylander" type threat on the blueline - just Rielly (who's very good), and two additional Quality Depth guys in Zaitzev and Gardiner, and beyond that a bunch of hopes and dreams and folks deluding themselves about Connor Carrick.

 

[hamzarocks]

That turn of phrase is used to describe teams like Carolina and Columbus, and the Leafs are nowhere near that. You need multiple high-skill high-talent guys, and the Leafs only have that on offense. There's no "Matthews-Marner-Nylander" type threat on the blueline - just Rielly (who's very good), and two additional Quality Depth guys in Zaitzev and Gardiner, and beyond that a bunch of hopes and dreams and folks deluding themselves about Connor Carrick.

While I would agree with your statement, the leafs have some strong pieces looking to make it within the next couple years. Carrick is garbage, but Dermott has looked amazing in every rookie+preseason game he's played in and hes only 21. Nielsen has great offensive tools but lacks in the skating department, his skating will probably hold him back but he should see some nhl time as a a power play specialist on the bottom pair, rosen and borgman have both looked great this preseason, I know it's only a couple of games, but if 2 out of 3 of rosen, borgman, Dermott make the team and play on bottom pair our team defense will improve from having a better bottom pair that can be relied on. We also have lilijgren who has top pairing potential. Right now we don't know if he hits it or not, but he's a great defsensive prospect to have. Along with the big backend guys we drafted in gordeev, Middleton, Rasanen, etc. So while I get that our 1-3 isn't as good as most in the league(can get better if Rielly and zaitsev take next steps) I like how the leafs are drafting and signing smooth skating defensemen who can play up and down in the lineup. Leads defense probably won't ever have a werenski level player but we are trying to build the backend by effort and have mobile dmen who can play up and down the lineup against higher or lower competition.

 

[Community]

Much rather play one of Dermot, Gardiner, or Rielly on the right side instead of trading for an equivalent defenseman that hasn't played in our system and we hope is as good as the guy we traded away.

If we end up exploring a trade where we are upgrading by adding other assets than sure, but if start with Gardiner before Rielly due to age/contract.

Going forward over the next 5 years I think I'm happy with a defense that likely consists of Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Dermott, And Liljegren; especially after you consider how our offense will likely be top 5.

Side note: If Rielly manages to get even average PP time or 2nd unit minutes, I think we see a big jump in his value on hf boards. Rielly is a great young defenseman and we saw how he still had yet another level in the Washington series.

 

[Liferleafer]

Right when Rielly looks a lot better, you want to trade him?

I know it's one pre season game, but lets hope Hainsey paired with Rielly keeps allowing Mo to play like last night.

 

[Jejune]

Willy doesn't PK. not sure what the issue is.



recent opinion of unbiased hockey pros using them on he same team > jets fans



he has.



the stats I used are the best we have, and both are crucial to consider. but hey you are right that total ice does matter to qoc. of course, it's only a 1 minute difference at even strength.



last 2yrs

Rielly (23): 158gms, 22:43, 0.96esp/60, 3.07ppp/60, 50.5cf%, -0.9rel, 46.9ozs%
Trouba (23): 141gms, 23:18, 0.96esp/60, 2.37ppp/60, 50.6cf%, -0.2rel, 49.4ozs%

near identical performance, but rielly in much more difficult usage. in a week corsica will re-open and i'll add in the toiqoc, which shows the gap even more clearly.

Are you basing "much more difficult usage" on the zone starts? Because there is almost no difference between 46.9% and 49.4%, that would equate to less than one more offensive zone start per game.

 

[Avsblitzkrieg]

Interest in Tyson Barrie?

 

[zeke]

That turn of phrase is used to describe teams like Carolina and Columbus, and the Leafs are nowhere near that. You need multiple high-skill high-talent guys, and the Leafs only have that on offense. There's no "Matthews-Marner-Nylander" type threat on the blueline - just Rielly (who's very good), and two additional Quality Depth guys in Zaitzev and Gardiner, and beyond that a bunch of hopes and dreams and folks deluding themselves about Connor Carrick.

Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev are all young prime capable top-3 dmen at the very least. None of them are depth guys. And they have tremendous pipeline of young talent after that including liljegren dermott rosen borgman .

Again, it's only a matter of time until hfboards is forced to reckon with the fact that this is a great group of talent back therr.

 

[snipes]

Not in the same tier as the players listed in the op.

 

[Tripod]

Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev are all young prime capable top-3 dmen at the very least. None of them are depth guys. And they have tremendous pipeline of young talent after that including liljegren dermott rosen borgman .

Again, it's only a matter of time until hfboards is forced to reckon with the fact that this is a great group of talent back therr.

All are top 3....none should be top 2.

 

[DJN21]

All are top 3....none should be top 2.

I endorse this message.

 

[zeke]

All are top 3....none should be top 2.

they're all top-2 on most teams, most likely.

and definitely on your team.

 

[Viqsi]

Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev are all young prime capable top-3 dmen at the very least. None of them are depth guys. And they have tremendous pipeline of young talent after that including liljegren dermott rosen borgman .

Again, it's only a matter of time until hfboards is forced to reckon with the fact that this is a great group of talent back therr.

Would you consider David Savard to be a top-quality blueliner? Because that's where I see those guys.

* * *​

they're all top-2 on most teams, most likely.

and definitely on your team.

Provorov's ahead of every single one of them, and Gostisbehere's due for a bounce-back.