Proposal: Rielly for an age equivilant RHD

[Starat327]

You know as well as I do there's more to playing defense than straight point production

Theres also a lot more to playing hockey than your coach feeling like he can 'punish' professionals like he was a college coach, too. Afterall, Vandevelde played about 20 games worth of minutes more than he shoudlve, in any coaches eyes.

If were going to blame players playing time on things, ill happily say that rielly played as many minutes as he did because Babcock didnt trust any other Leafs D to play those minutes, and not because he earned them.

Glad we can agree on being fair.

 

[Kiwi]

Theres also a lot more to playing hockey than your coach feeling like he can 'punish' professionals like he was a college coach, too. Afterall, Vandevelde played about 20 games worth of minutes more than he shoudlve, in any coaches eyes.

If were going to blame players playing time on things, ill happily say that rielly played as many minutes as he did because Babcock didnt trust any other Leafs D to play those minutes, and not because he earned them.

Glad we can agree on being fair.

What?

Everybody blames the coach for everything, do you honestly think that he was benching Ghost because he got off on it or something? It's called "tough love" and coaches do it because that's the best way to make the player do what the coaches want
Babcock did it to Nylander at one stage, coaches do it because it works, that's not on the coaches that's on the player

Ghost struggled defensively last season, that's an undisputable fact and it's ridiculous to pretend he didn't
How's that for "fair"

Rielly got tough usage because our coach trusts him and we didn't have anybody else who could do the job as well as he can, if that's not "earning it" I don't know what is

 

[zeke]

Provorov would instantly becomes the Leafs best dman. Who are you kidding, zeke.

he wouldn't have been the leafs best dman last year.

 

[Starat327]

What?

Everybody blames the coach for everything, do you honestly think that he was benching Ghost because he got off on it or something? It's called "tough love" and coaches do it because that's the best way to make the player do what the coaches want
Babcock did it to Nylander at one stage, coaches do it because it works, that's not on the coaches that's on the player

Ghost struggled defensively last season, that's an undisputable fact and it's ridiculous to pretend he didn't
How's that for "fair"

Rielly got tough usage because our coach trusts him and we didn't have anybody else who could do the job as well as he can, if that's not "earning it" I don't know what is

You clearly have no idea on what happened with the flyers last year.

please read this for a more in depth dive at what happened with Ghost this year., Then well talk.

No one is expecting him to kepp/maintain his Karlsson-esque numbers from his rookie year. Afterall, eventually, players get found out, this the reason for the dreaded, yet, expcted, sophmore slump.
But please, lets not pretend Ghost not playing was due to his 'deficienceies' (again, as overblown as they are) on him not playing well, when a coach deciedes to bench their best offense generating player because he doesn't want is creativity. Please, take a read.

This is also the coach that played Chris Vandevelde in potential game-tying times last year. No, im not joking.

 

[zeke]

I'd assumed the same of Provorov, but apparently only one rookie blueliner is allowed to be looked at from year to year, and this time it was our turn.

not following.

the numbers that rookies like Provorov and nylander put up last year have clear comparables.

it's just that while a kid like willy would have, say, been the best forward on philly last year, Provorov wouldn't have been the best dman on the leafs last year.

 

[zeke]

He played those minutes, but it was clear him and Zaitsev were over their head. And Zaitsev was not a regular rookie. He was a 25 year old top 4 dmen that is used to playing against men.

actually mo and zaitsev did as well or better than the other guys with similar tough usage - guys like keith hjamalr vlasic braun chara weber pietro bouw alzner.

 

[Starat327]

not following.

the numbers that rookies like Provorov and nylander put up last year have clear comparables.

it's just that while a kid like willy would have, say, been the best forward on philly last year, Provorov wouldn't have been the best dman on the leafs last year.

Out of curiosity. what are you basing your 'best of' stats on, for each player?

 

[zeke]

And i'm not sure why Ghost keeps getting brought up. Guy had near 70% ozone starts last year. one of the softest usage dmen in hockey. the kid is a PP specialist.

 

[zeke]

Out of curiosity. what are you basing your 'best of' stats on, for each player?

production, possession, usage.

 

[zeke]

I mean it's the classic leafs double standard.

rookie Nylander literally had a better season than any flyers forward - but if any leaf fan say willy was better than any flyers forward, they would scream bloody murder.

but meanwhile, we have to just accept that provorov is better than any leafs dman, even though he didn't actually outplay 3 of them.

 

[zeke]

Last year:

Nylander: 81gms, 16:01, 61pts, 53.2cf%, +3.6rel, 56.8ozs%
Voracek: 82gms, 19:05, 61pts, 52.2cf%, +1.5rel, 53.3ozs%
Giroux: 82gms, 19:07, 58pts, 53.6cf%, +3.5rel, 57.6ozs%

Gardiner: 82gms, 21:23, 43pts, 52.6cf%, +3.2rel, 54.5ozs%
Zaitsev: 82gms, 22:01, 36pts, 49.4cf%, -1.8rel, 44.8ozs%
Rielly: 76gms, 22:10, 27pts, 50.4cf%, +0.0rel, 46.6ozs%
Provorov: 82gms, 21:59, 30pts, 49.4cf%, -2.7rel, 47.8ozs%

So our rookie actually outplays the best flyers forwards, but god forbid a leafs fan claims willy is better than them.

Meanwhile, Provorov doesn't outplay any of the leafs' top 3, but now leafs fans are silly homers if they don't just admit that provorov is better than all of them.

 

[Starat327]

Last year:

Nylander: 81gms, 16:01, 61pts, 53.2cf%, +3.6rel, 56.8ozs%
Voracek: 82gms, 19:05, 61pts, 52.2cf%, +1.5rel, 53.3ozs%
Giroux: 82gms, 19:07, 58pts, 53.6cf%, +3.5rel, 57.6ozs%

Gardiner: 82gms, 21:23, 43pts, 52.6cf%, +3.2rel, 54.5ozs%
Zaitsev: 82gms, 22:01, 36pts, 49.4cf%, -1.8rel, 44.8ozs%
Rielly: 76gms, 22:10, 27pts, 50.4cf%, +0.0rel, 46.6ozs%<
Provorov: 82gms, 21:59, 30pts, 49.4cf%, -2.7rel, 47.8ozs%

So our rookie actually outplays the best flyers forwards, but god forbid a leafs fan claims willy is better than them.

Meanwhile, Provorov doesn't outplay any of the leafs' top 3, but now leafs fans are silly homers if they don't just admit that provorov is better than all of them.

None of us are discrediting what the leafs players have done. But doing things once < doing it multiple times. Simple as that man. Leafs players had great rookie seasons, but progression isnt always liniear, and some people stagnate after their rookie seasons.

Do i think that happens to all of the leafs young players? No. But can we at the ver least.... acknowedge the possibility, or are we going to rely on advanced stats to continuously say "they should have actually done better" ?

Edit: Also, Provorov was in both a different draft and birth year from the leafs D, so we have tro follow a linear progression which seems to be expected for all leafs players.

 

[Kiwi]

You clearly have no idea on what happened with the flyers last year.

please read this for a more in depth dive at what happened with Ghost this year., Then well talk.

No one is expecting him to kepp/maintain his Karlsson-esque numbers from his rookie year. Afterall, eventually, players get found out, this the reason for the dreaded, yet, expcted, sophmore slump.
But please, lets not pretend Ghost not playing was due to his 'deficienceies' (again, as overblown as they are) on him not playing well, when a coach deciedes to bench their best offense generating player because he doesn't want is creativity. Please, take a read.

This is also the coach that played Chris Vandevelde in potential game-tying times last year. No, im not joking.

The coach isn't benching the guy because he hates "creativity" he's doing it because Ghost is either playing badly or isn't doing what he needs him to do

No coach is going to bench a guy especially one as gifted as Ghost without a damn good reason, you don't make that kind of decision on a whim

Babcock did it last year, does that mean he hates Nylander's "creativity"? No of course it doesn't it just means he's trying to help the kid in the best way available to him just like your coach is doing for Ghost

 

[Starat327]

The coach isn't benching the guy because he hates "creativity" he's doing it because Ghost is either playing badly or isn't doing what he needs him to do

No coach is going to bench a guy especially one as gifted as Ghost without a damn good reason, you don't make that kind of decision on a whim

Babcock did it last year, does that mean he hates Nylander's "creativity"? No of course it doesn't it just means he's trying to help the kid in the best way available to him just like your coach is doing for Ghost

Right...so he plas vandevelde with 1 minute to go when were down by 1...


...and you expet us to not criitique his player selection?


Theres also a huge difference between a cup winning coach saying " you shouldnt do that" and a 2nd year nhl coach saying "you shouldnt do this", after a record-setting season of play. Surely....you understand this, no?

 

[Crosscrease14]

I would seriously consider Rielly for Trouba.. I think right now Trouba is a bit ahead of Rielly but Mo has a solid contract and I feel as though Trouba will ask for the moon after taking a bridge last time around, and he will get what he's worth. It opens up a spot for Dermott in the leafs top 4 but also blocks Liljegren.

End of the day it would be a respectful no. Not because Trouba isn't great, but everything else around the trade doesn't make sense when we can wait it out and just be patient to see what we have.

 

[Shaffer]

Justin Schultz +2nd