Post-Game Talk: Ride the Schneider to Victory

[glenwo2]

It got enough love the first hundred times it was posted.

 

[Devils Trap]

It got enough love the first hundred times it was posted.

This is the 2nd time it was posted

 

[tycobb]

Lemaire's first 4 years as a head coach he made the Conference Finals twice, The playoffs all 4 times, and won a Cup. 17 years as a head coach he missed the playoffs 7 times. Once with a .622 Win Pct. taking over for a terrible coach and only twice has he ever coached a team with a sub .500 Win Pct.

I think it's safe to say that it's incredibly speculative and premature to even propose the possibility of Pete Deboer being the next Lemaire.

Adam Henrique could be the next Wayne Gretzky. Who knows right?

Let's see who Lemaire had his first 4 years.

Year 1 PTS leaders
Lafleur, Naslund, Smith, Carbonneau, Walter, Chabot, Robinson, Gainey, Tremblay

Year 2 PTS leaders
Naslund, Tremblay, CHelios, Carbonneau, Mondou, Smith, Robinson, Kurvers, McPhee, Walter

Year 3 PTS leaders
Stevens, Richer, MacLean, Zelepukin, Millen, Nicholls, Niedermayer, Guerin, Lemieux, (other notables Fetisov, Daneyko, Driver, Broduer)

Year 4 PTS leaders
Richer, MacLean, Broten, Guerin, Stevens, Holik, Lemieux, Niedermayer, Chorske, Rolston (other notables Fetixov, Daneyko, Brodeur)



Pete's first 4 years

Year 1 PTS leaders
Weiss, Booth, Stillman, HOrton, Frolik, Bouwmeester, McCabe, Dvoark, Ballard, Zednik
(other notables Vokoun in net and Anderson backup)

Year 2 PTS leaders
Wiess, Horton, Frolik, McCabe, Reinprecht, Stilllman, Dvorak, Olesz, Ballard, Seidenberg ( Vokoun in net)

Year 3 PTS leaders
Wiess, Santorellik, Booth, Wideman, Reasoner, Frolik, Kulikov, Higgins, Stillman, McCabe (Vokoun in net)

Year 4 PTS leaders
Kovalchuk, Elias, Parise, Hernqiue, Clarkson, Sykora, Zubrus, Ponikarovsky, Larsson, Fayne (Marty in net - poor season for him) - Took the team to the Finals.


Pete has had **** teams his entire career when Lemaire had a bunch of HOF his first 4 years. BTW not dissing Lemaire since he is my favorite coach of all time.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Pete also had Kulikov and Grabner. And probably a handful of other young players with potential that didn't thrive under a coach who has no grasp on development.

There really isn't any way you can even imply that Pete can be the next Lemaire just because they are system coaches. If you don't have a system at this level it's a red flag (cough J-Mac cough).

About the only thing they have in common is being NHL coaches with systems.

 

[R8Devs]

Kovalchuk-Zajac-Palmieri
Rolston-Elias-Zubrus
Zharkov-Arnott-Tedenby
Pelley-Mair-Clarkson

Tallinder-Fayne
Salmela-Greene
White-Volchenkov

That was what Lemaire was working with and got them on a 9-0-1 streak.


And with a few changes(Josefson in for Arnott) and line variations he coached that team to 29-17-3.


Pete can't get this team to win 3 in a row and our current team is way better than that.

 

[tycobb]

Pete also had Kulikov and Grabner. And probably a handful of other young players with potential that didn't thrive under a coach who has no grasp on development.

There really isn't any way you can even imply that Pete can be the next Lemaire just because they are system coaches. If you don't have a system at this level it's a red flag (cough J-Mac cough).

About the only thing they have in common is being NHL coaches with systems.

Kulikov as a 19 year put up 16 points in 68 games with 17:56 ATOI and 26 PTS in 72 games with 19:57 his second season under Pete.

He has since put up 28 pts in 58 games with 21:51 ATIO, 10 PTS in 34 games with 20:59 min, and right now 12 pts in 53 games with 20:41 ATOI.

Safe to say Kulikov was just find under Pete.

Grabner never played an NHL game for FLA. He was drafted by Vancouver (who are known to develop players the last 10 years) The GM tried to send him to the AHL and the islanders picked him up. He was amazing his first season and has continue to drop off.

.55 PTS per (VAN in 20 games)
.68 PTS per
.41 PTS per
.47 PTS per
.38 PTS per

 

[R8Devs]

"You've got more freedom to do what you want on the ice (under new coach Kevin Dineen)," defenseman Dmitry Kulikov told the SunSentinel. "You feel if you make a mistake you can make up for it on the next shift.

"With Pete, it's one mistake and you're like shaking for the rest of the game."

Forward Michal Repik said DeBoer was too tough on his players in Florida.

"Last year I came here from the farm team to make an impression," Repik said. "To go out there, you are afraid to play; that's not the right thing for us.

"Obviously you'll be tight anyway, but you want to be relaxed. I hoped if you made a bad play you don't get yelled at and the coach will help pick you up and give you confidence, too."


http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2011/11/some_panthers_have_score_to_se.html


So Kulikov wasn't just fine under Pete.

"(Dineen) might be a little but more patient with the young guys and more calm, while Pete's more finery," Weiss said.

 

[tycobb]

Kovalchuk-Zajac-Palmieri
Rolston-Elias-Zubrus
Zharkov-Arnott-Tedenby
Pelley-Mair-Clarkson

Tallinder-Fayne
Salmela-Greene
White-Volchenkov

That was what Lemaire was working with and got them on a 9-0-1 streak.


And with a few changes(Josefson in for Arnott) and line variations he coached that team to 29-17-3.


Pete can't get this team to win 3 in a row and our current team is way better than that.

Yea it was amazing what Lemaire did, but we weren't dominating the games in the 2nd half like we are have with Pete. Kovy had like 5 GW in a single month. We just went on a roll and it was great to watch.

 

[ajdevjet]

It's crazy how Gelinas' pass drew the penalty, but he really needs to learn how to read plays. I honestly couldn't believe how out of position he was seconds before that. I think he even looked over at Seguin and still decided to leave him there alone in front of Cory. He's ****ing nuts.

any chance we convert him to forward ? we've played d-men as forwards before, maybe Gelinas becomes a forward for good ? just a thought since everyone thinks his defensive skills are suspect.

 

[tycobb]

"You've got more freedom to do what you want on the ice (under new coach Kevin Dineen)," defenseman Dmitry Kulikov told the SunSentinel. "You feel if you make a mistake you can make up for it on the next shift.

"With Pete, it's one mistake and you're like shaking for the rest of the game."

Forward Michal Repik said DeBoer was too tough on his players in Florida.

"Last year I came here from the farm team to make an impression," Repik said. "To go out there, you are afraid to play; that's not the right thing for us.

"Obviously you'll be tight anyway, but you want to be relaxed. I hoped if you made a bad play you don't get yelled at and the coach will help pick you up and give you confidence, too."


http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2011/11/some_panthers_have_score_to_se.html


So Kulikov wasn't just fine under Pete.

"(Dineen) might be a little but more patient with the young guys and more calm, while Pete's more finery," Weiss said.

Kulikov production was fine under Pete.

5on5 PTS/60
09-10 - .38 (Pete)
10-11 - .90 (Pete)
11-12 - .92 (Dineen)
12-13 - .32 (Dineen)
13-14 - .59 (Whoever the coach is now)

 

[R8Devs]

Dude it's not only about production it's also about development. They aren't allowed to learn from their mistakes because they get benched, you honestly can tell me you like how the Devils have handled Larsson, Gelinas, and Merrill?

 

[tycobb]

Dude it's not only about production it's also about development. They aren't allowed to learn from their mistakes because they get benched, you honestly can tell me you like how the Devils have handled Larsson, Gelinas, and Merrill?

I think there are many ways to skin a cat. Pete follows Lemaire method of benching young players if they make mistakes.

I wish Lemaire was our coach now because people would be asking him to get fired just like Pete. Zero chance Gelinas would be up with the NHL club.

 

[ajdevjet]

Dude it's not only about production it's also about development. They aren't allowed to learn from their mistakes because they get benched, you honestly can tell me you like how the Devils have handled Larsson, Gelinas, and Merrill?

couldnt agree more ! you mean MIS handled Lars, Gel and Merrill

 

[R8Devs]

With Lemaire I doubt you would see Loktionov and Josefson be healthy scratches.

 

[Balance]

Kovalchuk-Zajac-Palmieri
Rolston-Elias-Zubrus
Zharkov-Arnott-Tedenby
Pelley-Mair-Clarkson

Tallinder-Fayne
Salmela-Greene
White-Volchenkov

That was what Lemaire was working with and got them on a 9-0-1 streak.


And with a few changes(Josefson in for Arnott) and line variations he coached that team to 29-17-3.


Pete can't get this team to win 3 in a row and our current team is way better than that.

Our team isn't better than that. See the name Kovalchuk? That makes the entire difference.

If we still had Kovy we'd be battling the Pens for the top spot in the division. Imagine Kovy and Jagr on the same line?

 

[tycobb]

With Lemaire I doubt you would see Loktionov and Josefson be healthy scratches.

Lemaire liked Josefson. No clue how he would feel about Loki or Gionta.

 

[KidRobot]

No, we aren't the Jets, we aren't perennial losers.

New York Jets, not Winnipeg. The Woody Johnson/Idzik/Rex Ryan dynamic.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

With Lemaire I doubt you would see Loktionov and Josefson be healthy scratches.

Seconded.

Lemaire was tough on youngsters but they learned and developed.

2009

“One of the first things I said to [GM] Lou [Lamoriello], I said you have good kids in the organization,” Lemaire said yesterday after an optional practice in Newark where eight skaters plus backup goalie Yann Danis showed. “Where would we be if it weren’t for the kids? In trouble. In deep trouble.”

“The two [young] defensemen, they play an aggressive game, which helps them big time,” Lemaire said. “They could be better with the puck, but their aggressiveness helps them be able to play.”

http://nypost.com/2009/12/11/devils-growing-with-youngsters/

However, Lamoriello believes that youngsters Rod Pelley, Niclas Bergfors, Matt Halischuk and Ilkka Pikkarainen are ready for the NHL and he decided that Shanahan a expendable.

"Maybe Lou thought that they had a long chance to make the team," Lemaire said of the youngsters' chances at the start of training camp. "But these kids they've shown that they're ready to play."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4522626

Devils coach Jacques Lemaire was asked this afternoon what kind of player rookie right wing Mattias Tedenby can develop into. “Gionta maybe,” Lemaire said, referring to former Devil and current Canadiens captain Brian Gionta. “(The way he plays) with the puck. Maybe he doesn’t shoot as well as Gionta, but to control, to skate, the quickness, make plays, toughness. Because for his size, he plays an aggressive game. He goes in traffic.” - See more at: http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/...player_like_brian_giont/#sthash.lrLXEOFa.dpuf

"He's capable of playing at a high level and against the good players," Lemaire said of Bergfors. "But when he's going to play against Crosby, as an example, and he's not aware of the defensive game, I don’t like it. Everyone has to be aware of the defensive game. Everyone. Zach’s doing it, Travis is doing it all the time, and it doesn’t stop them from getting any points.

"They’re top players, so they play against each other and we’ll see at the end who finishes on top. I know Crosby doesn’t have all the guys he usually plays with and Zach does, but let’s take the game tonight as an example, I thought Zach did well.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/dev...okie-bergfors-despite-three-point-performance

"A kid like this needs to get some chances," Lemaire said. "You know, go in a game and get three, four chances. Then go to the next game and get two, three chances. Then go and keep getting these chances. And then goals will come."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=555473

Pete only talks that way about Gionta. And Harrold. Lemaire was tough on his kids but they loved him and they learned. Lemaire "gets it." The kids need to play to develop.

Pete doesn't.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Our team isn't better than that. See the name Kovalchuk? That makes the entire difference.

If we still had Kovy we'd be battling the Pens for the top spot in the division. Imagine Kovy and Jagr on the same line?

I'm sorry but this makes no sense. You are describing what this current team would be like with the ADDITION of Kovalchuk when the initial poster was comparing our current squad (sans Kovy) with the 2010-2011 team.

That 2010-2011 team is no better as far as offensive potential goes. Yes they had Kovy and Elias, but Jagr is producing at nearly the same rate as Kovy was and Elias can be basically expected to produce the same now as well. Outside of that you have Zajac (who we still have basically playing at the same level), and you have Rolston (about equal to Ryder). Basically that top 6 is almost exactly like what we have now - a ppg winger on the top line centered by Zajac with a plugger/rookie (Palmieri) filling in at the other wing; along with a decent second line.

How about their bottom 9? That third line consisted of two young wingers who now can't even crack the big club now centered by an aging Arnott who was well past his prime (and later replaced by another rookie in Josefson who doesn't get regular playing time now). Clarkson wasn't having a great year and was relegated to the fourth line, which was basically a complete black hole for offense. I'll take Brunner, Loktionov, Bernier, Gionta, and Carter over that group any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

So to sum up, the top 6 is a wash and our current bottom 9 are better. Add to that that our D-men are also better. So how do you figure that this team should not be better than that one?

The reason that team was successful is that Lemaire literally squeezed every drop of talent he could get out of Josefson, Tedenby, and Palmieri. And that defense was virtually impenatrable.

But according to most here, we have the "worst collection of forwards ever." That's baloney.

 

[tycobb]

Seconded.

Lemaire was tough on youngsters but they learned and developed.

2009



http://nypost.com/2009/12/11/devils-growing-with-youngsters/


Pete only talks that way about Gionta. And Harrold. Lemaire was tough on his kids but they loved him and they learned. Lemaire "gets it." The kids need to play to develop.

Pete doesn't.

Imagine what Henrique could have been without Pete!

 

[guitarguyvic]

Imagine what Henrique could have been without Pete!

I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount of funds that Henrique would in fact be a better player under Lemaire's guidance. You can't realistically think that wouldn't be the case...?