Value of: Rickard Rakell to the Oilers - Perfect fit for McDavid?

Pitaya

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Have you seen the Pacific? It's far from a lock that the first will be late first round. And no we shouldn't, that urgency nonsense is what caused Chiarelli to sink the team in the first place. Moves for the sake of moves is not how you run an organization.
Good luck wasting McDavid’s prime then I suppose

You gonna draft with every pick ever until youre the clear favorite in the Pacific? That wont ever happen so I guess youll never acquire outside talent and wallow in mediocrity

Once again - the team with the most draft picks and 1st overalls in the 2010-2019 period is STILL not a contender. But sure, rushing is what ruined the Oilers...
 
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duckpuck

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Love Rakell but based on the prices asked in this thread and his inability to stay healthy, I'd much rather the Oilers try their luck in the off season to sign a UFA for free that would likely post similar numbers alongside McDavid.

Inability to stay healthy? Not sure what you're referring to. He had an appendectomy and a few other minor injuries.

Rakell is almost 27 and signed for 2.5 more years. He is a good player but I think that's too high of a price for the Oilers, who are not a conventional "buyer." I wonder if the Ducks would have an interest in a 1st + Samorukov + an asset + cap dump? Samorukov is Edmonton's 3rd best D prospect at the moment and a much easier pill to swallow.

Bouchard is untouchable - AHL all-star in his rookie year and will make the NHL jump next season. Broberg is not untouchable but I don't think it would be wise to move him for a winger producing at a 2nd line rate these last two years. While Rakell's current contract is amazing value, he will need to be resigned in the near future at the age of 29. I would be very hesitant to include Broberg and a 1st.

Rakell is a very good player who will be even better if/when surrounded by actual talent (which the ducks severely lack). This and his contract makes him VERY valuable to a cup contending team that is up against the cap. To put things in perspective, for the next 2.5 years, Rakell is making about $580,000 a year more than what Kassian just signed for. Literally, no team is going to sign a comparable UFA for Rakell's salary on a 2-3 year deal. Not to mention the fact that Rackell is just now entering his prime, whereas most UFA's are already in or past their prime and looking for term.

Teams like edmonton (and Colorado, Boston, Toronto, Pittsburgh, Washington, and even St. Louis) should be overpaying for Rakell. Those teams don't need to win the trade - they should overpay with futures to maximize the next three cup runs. Having Rakell gives great play and salary cap relief/flexibility for a 3 year run.

And keep in mind, I don't think the ducks are looking to move Rakell. He's a core player even if they go to full rebuild mode and good friends with Lindholm who the ducks will want to keep around for a long time. If nothing else, they can trade him in the offseason and/or next year's deadline.
 

North Cole

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Good luck wasting McDavid’s prime then I suppose

You gonna draft with every pick ever until youre the clear favorite in the Pacific? That wont ever happen so I guess youll never acquire outside talent and wallow in mediocrity

Once again - the team with the most draft picks and 1st overalls in the 2010-2019 period is STILL not a contender. But sure, rushing is what ruined the Oilers...

Not sure what your point is? Other than filling your post with a bunch of angst. The management that drafted those 1st overall picks is no longer running the team, quit leaning on that strawman. It's a poor useless argument. The new GM is Ken Holland. He has a proven track record of drafting and developing rather than selling picks to acquire players, why would he immediately turn around and jettison a 1st round pick in what is considered a deep draft? I expect you have some answer other than - "You guys draft too many 1OA's, who'll think of McDavids prime??".

You're saying that we are in a better spot after trading Eberle and the Barzal pick, getting Griffin, getting strome then trading him away, trading Hall for Larsson, etc. Those are some of the things that lost Chiarelli his job, because he decided that the team was ready for the next step after we made the 2017 playoffs, so he bet it all on black and came home with nothing.

Draft with every pick ever? I mean, isnt the team a going concern? Are we about to stop getting picks in perpetuity?

You certainly have a talent for exaggeration and whataboutisms, probably why your suggesting the team operate like a venture capital firm. Make trades, win all your trades, acquire, acquire!
 

duckpuck

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Not sure what your point is? Other than filling your post with a bunch of angst. The management that drafted those 1st overall picks is no longer running the team, quit leaning on that strawman. It's a poor useless argument. The new GM is Ken Holland. He has a proven track record of drafting and developing rather than selling picks to acquire players, why would he immediately turn around and jettison a 1st round pick in what is considered a deep draft? I expect you have some answer other than - "You guys draft too many 1OA's, who'll think of McDavids prime??".

You're saying that we are in a better spot after trading Eberle and the Barzal pick, getting Griffin, getting strome then trading him away, trading Hall for Larsson, etc. Those are some of the things that lost Chiarelli his job, because he decided that the team was ready for the next step after we made the 2017 playoffs, so he bet it all on black and came home with nothing.

Draft with every pick ever? I mean, isnt the team a going concern? Are we about to stop getting picks in perpetuity?

You certainly have a talent for exaggeration and whataboutisms, probably why your suggesting the team operate like a venture capital firm. Make trades, win all your trades, acquire, acquire!

It boils down to this - what is Edmonton trying to do this year and the next 2 years? Are you trying to win a cup this year or next? If so, then you trade for a player like Rakell. Because the young players you have as well as upcoming draft picks aren't helping win a cup in the next 1-2 (or even 3) years.

If you're targeting cup playoffs this year and then contention in the future only, then no reason to give up lots of futures for any player now. This approach justifies the reference to squandering McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.
 

Pitaya

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Dec 14, 2019
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Not sure what your point is? Other than filling your post with a bunch of angst. The management that drafted those 1st overall picks is no longer running the team, quit leaning on that strawman. It's a poor useless argument. The new GM is Ken Holland. He has a proven track record of drafting and developing rather than selling picks to acquire players, why would he immediately turn around and jettison a 1st round pick in what is considered a deep draft? I expect you have some answer other than - "You guys draft too many 1OA's, who'll think of McDavids prime??".

You're saying that we are in a better spot after trading Eberle and the Barzal pick, getting Griffin, getting strome then trading him away, trading Hall for Larsson, etc. Those are some of the things that lost Chiarelli his job, because he decided that the team was ready for the next step after we made the 2017 playoffs, so he bet it all on black and came home with nothing.

Draft with every pick ever? I mean, isnt the team a going concern? Are we about to stop getting picks in perpetuity?

You certainly have a talent for exaggeration and whataboutisms, probably why your suggesting the team operate like a venture capital firm. Make trades, win all your trades, acquire, acquire!
You showed you have no real clue when you said ‘Chiarelli rushing is what caused problems’ when in reality ‘rushing’ usually means trading draft picks and, what do you know, the Edmonton Oilers drafted far more than anyone else last decade

But sure, keep all your 1st round picks because to you - prospects > roster players. Thats all youll ever know I suppose, being out of the playoffs for two decades and counting
 

Todd Parchment

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You showed you have no real clue when you said ‘Chiarelli rushing is what caused problems’ when in reality ‘rushing’ usually means trading draft picks and, what do you know, the Edmonton Oilers drafted far more than anyone else last decade

But sure, keep all your 1st round picks because to you - prospects > roster players. Thats all youll ever know I suppose, being out of the playoffs for two decades and counting

oilers made the playoffs like 3 years ago bro..
Clearly lying so your thoughts are invalid now...
Must be a trumpist
 

Pitaya

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oilers made the playoffs like 3 years ago bro...
And that means what?

What did they gain from that?

Edmonton, where they always wait for the next draft pick to save them instead of trading capital for upgrades

Edmontons draft picks will come to fruition by the time McDavid and Draisaitl are nearing the end of their deals and likely have had no playoff success in the meantime
 

Todd Parchment

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1/14 years

What a great success rate

Clearly lying though. Looks like a good chance we make it this year and 10 years ago is irrelevant because we basically have an all new team...

Y’all coming in here with shots from millennia ago...

Oilers won 5 cups like 35 years ago who cares now? Have have 89 cups do you see them bragging?
Chicago fans are pissed off this and they have won very recent cups ....
 

Todd Parchment

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Apr 5, 2018
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And that means what?

What did they gain from that?

Edmonton, where they always wait for the next draft pick to save them instead of trading capital for upgrades

Edmontons draft picks will come to fruition by the time McDavid and Draisaitl are nearing the end of their deals and likely have had no playoff success in the meantime
If you say they haven’t made the playoffs in over two decades you’re clearly bs’ing your argument so why even bother???
 

CraigsList

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Clearly lying though. Looks like a good chance we make it this year and 10 years ago is irrelevant because we basically have an all new team...

Y’all coming in here with shots from millennia ago...

Oilers won 5 cups like 35 years ago who cares now? Have have 89 cups do you see them bragging?
Chicago fans are pissed off this and they have won very recent cups ....

14 years ago is not a millennia lol.

If the Oilers want to go far they need to pay some good money for another good player. Rakell, with arguably one of the best contracts in the NHL as of right now for another 2 years after this season, would be an excellent add on a cap-strapped team like the Oilers.
 

Riser

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Jan 30, 2020
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So, keep trying the same thing that hasn't worked so far.

Not really. What high end top 6 players have the Oilers signed as UFA's outside of Lucic in recent years? Oilers are in no position to be dumping blue chip prospects with the depth the roster currently has. They are just starting to see what developing their own players looks like.
 

Riser

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Inability to stay healthy? Not sure what you're referring to. He had an appendectomy and a few other minor injuries

Which is exactly my point. Like it or not a players value is greatly determined by his ability to play. Since entering the league Rakell hasn't sniffed an 82 game season. He's no use on the IR at the price ducks fans are asking.
 

voxel

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Edmonton, where they always wait for the next draft pick to save them instead of trading capital for upgrades

Seriously, what are you smoking?

Chia made major trades like Hall-for-Larsson, 2015 picks for G.Reinhart (basically Barzal and Beauviller) and Talbot, traded a bunch of 3rds away for players, traded for DD at the deadline during the playoff run.

This is Holland's first year. He doesn't know the players and the prospects... when he does he'll find it lacking in forward prospects but full of D.
 

ImmuneEH

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To Anaheim:
2021 1st
2020 2nd
Samorukov
Puljujarvi

To Edmonton
Rakell

I think that's reasonable. Idk if throwing in JP was necessary. But this is a deal I'd do.

It's a big price to pay, but I think it's worth it to basically secure three playoff runs.
 
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WhatTheDuck

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To Anaheim:
2021 1st
2020 2nd
Samorukov
Puljujarvi

To Edmonton
Rakell

I think that's reasonable. Idk if throwing in JP was necessary. But this is a deal I'd do.

Samorukov is a very interesting prospect, however the Ducks haven't drafted, signed or acquired a single young Russian player during Murray's eleven seasons at the helm. He's all about having leverage over young RFA's, and that's so much more difficult with the KHL flight risk. It's all the more reason why they'd likely be stuck on one of your top two D prospects.
 
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ImmuneEH

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Samorukov is a very interesting prospect, however the Ducks haven't drafted, signed or acquired a single young Russian player during Murray's eleven seasons at the helm. He's all about having leverage over young RFA's, and that's so much more difficult with the KHL flight risk. It's all the more reason why they'd likely be stuck on one of your top two D prospects.

If I were to take out Samorukov, I'd replace him with Broberg and expect Anaheim to add a forward prospect like Comtoise or Steel.

Either that or maybe we swap out Samorukov for Benson and keep everything else the same.
 

WhatTheDuck

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If I were to take out Samorukov, I'd replace him with Broberg and expect Anaheim to add a forward prospect like Comtoise or Steel.

Either that or maybe we swap out Samorukov for Benson and keep everything else the same.

It's not realistic to expect the Ducks to trade a key young forward along with Rakell. There's quantity that can be removed from the Oilers side (Pulujarvi +2nd etc) because the main focus would be Broberg/Bouchard + 1st.
 
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ImmuneEH

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It's not realistic to expect the Ducks to trade a key young forward along with Rakell. There's quantity that can be removed from the Oilers side (Pulujarvi +2nd etc) because the main focus would be Broberg/Bouchard + 1st.

Personally, I don't care for Broberg because A) I didn't like the pick to begin with and B) we have so much depth at LD. He is a blue-chip prospect nonetheless.

I wouldn't want to part with the 2020 1st (doubt Holland does either), but I think I could live with sending Broberg + 2021 1st for Rakell.

If that's not palatable for you guys, I guess a deal isn't realistic.
 
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Zegs2sendhelp

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Personally, I don't care for Broberg because A) I didn't like the pick to begin with and B) we have so much depth at LD. He is a blue-chip prospect nonetheless.

I wouldn't want to part with the 2020 1st (doubt Holland does either), but I think I could live with sending Broberg + 2021 1st for Rakell.

If that's not palatable for you guys, I guess a deal isn't realistic.
What if the 2020 pick is based on you guys making the playoffs or not(if you miss the pick goes to 2021)
I think its fair either way, I just don't know if wed want to wait on the pick(as I feel like rakells value will be basically the same next year anyway) so if were going to wait on a pick, wed prob just hold off and trade him next year instead.
 

anezthes

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It's not realistic to expect the Ducks to trade a key young forward along with Rakell. There's quantity that can be removed from the Oilers side (Pulujarvi +2nd etc) because the main focus would be Broberg/Bouchard + 1st.

Isn't the knock on Broberg his (lack of) hockey IQ?
 
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North Cole

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Jan 22, 2017
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You showed you have no real clue when you said ‘Chiarelli rushing is what caused problems’ when in reality ‘rushing’ usually means trading draft picks and, what do you know, the Edmonton Oilers drafted far more than anyone else last decade

But sure, keep all your 1st round picks because to you - prospects > roster players. Thats all youll ever know I suppose, being out of the playoffs for two decades and counting

Chiarelli wasn't around for 10 years, and traded picks for Griffin R. Use Google and educate yourself about the franchise instead of parroting the same old strawman. We made the playoffs in 2017, so again, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Prospects aren't better than roster players, but unlike you, I don't believe the NHL is "be a GM" where you can win every trade in a landslide and there are no repercussions to doing idiotic things - just go get a good roster player they said, it's easy they said. GM's that trade 1st round picks without protection deserve what they get. The fact that we are 3 points from being out of a playoff spot and you think the pick is just a late rounder, shows how little you know about the NHL. Forest for the trees.

It boils down to this - what is Edmonton trying to do this year and the next 2 years? Are you trying to win a cup this year or next? If so, then you trade for a player like Rakell. Because the young players you have as well as upcoming draft picks aren't helping win a cup in the next 1-2 (or even 3) years.

If you're targeting cup playoffs this year and then contention in the future only, then no reason to give up lots of futures for any player now. This approach justifies the reference to squandering McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.

We can't win a cup this year or next year, that's delusional and I'd hope that someone operating the team wouldn't get psyched into believing that. Rakell isn't ROR, where we trade for him and all the stars align on our way to the cup. The problem with talking yourself into needing a player is that you start talking yourself into paying whatever price is necessary, rather than doing due diligence and looking for a better deal. There's plenty of wingers out there, we don't need to rush into selling the farm to get RR, just like you don't need to rush into dumping him for spare change. It's a two way street. If there's a massive premium on him, then he can stay in Anaheim and they can continue to draft, and we can continue to draft. Why is it, that people automatically get so defensive - "You don't want our player, then you can suck forever and keep wasting your players careers". It sounds so childish.

Regarding your second point - it doesn't justify it all. That's just being a prisoner of the moment; people that say stuff remind me of why casual investors and gamblers lose all their money. You go in with a plan and when you starting losing, you think the key is to increase bet size to quickly make back the money you lost. So you start investing or gambling erratically and lose even more money. Imagine Holland comes in and thinks to himself - "Well the last GM wasted 4 years of McDavid, so I have to make this work in 1 or 2, instead of my original 4 year plan..." That's shortsighted and he should be fired on the spot. He has never been that type of GM. I get it, random fans want to see fireworks and huge shakeups, but it's just not realistic in business. Winning a cup is hugely unrealistic, the goal is to make the playoffs consistently, cups are not won in 2 years of building, the NHL isn't Sim City. To make the playoffs consistently you can't sell tonnes of 1st rounders, I think that will come back to eventually hurt the Leafs.
 

zar

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14 years ago is not a millennia lol.

If the Oilers want to go far they need to pay some good money for another good player. Rakell, with arguably one of the best contracts in the NHL as of right now for another 2 years after this season, would be an excellent add on a cap-strapped team like the Oilers.

Seriously? ...a Flames fan chirping the Oilers? Weak. You guys have made the playoffs 3 times in the past decade , the Oilers once. The Flames have lost 12 of the last 14 playoff games they have appeared in.

Playoff games won in the past decade:
Flames: 5
Oilers: 7

Does it really count if you make the playoffs if you don't show up when the game starts.
 

duckpuck

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We can't win a cup this year or next year, that's delusional and I'd hope that someone operating the team wouldn't get psyched into believing that. Rakell isn't ROR, where we trade for him and all the stars align on our way to the cup. The problem with talking yourself into needing a player is that you start talking yourself into paying whatever price is necessary, rather than doing due diligence and looking for a better deal. There's plenty of wingers out there, we don't need to rush into selling the farm to get RR, just like you don't need to rush into dumping him for spare change. It's a two way street. If there's a massive premium on him, then he can stay in Anaheim and they can continue to draft, and we can continue to draft. Why is it, that people automatically get so defensive - "You don't want our player, then you can suck forever and keep wasting your players careers". It sounds so childish.

Regarding your second point - it doesn't justify it all. That's just being a prisoner of the moment; people that say stuff remind me of why casual investors and gamblers lose all their money. You go in with a plan and when you starting losing, you think the key is to increase bet size to quickly make back the money you lost. So you start investing or gambling erratically and lose even more money. Imagine Holland comes in and thinks to himself - "Well the last GM wasted 4 years of McDavid, so I have to make this work in 1 or 2, instead of my original 4 year plan..." That's shortsighted and he should be fired on the spot. He has never been that type of GM. I get it, random fans want to see fireworks and huge shakeups, but it's just not realistic in business. Winning a cup is hugely unrealistic, the goal is to make the playoffs consistently, cups are not won in 2 years of building, the NHL isn't Sim City. To make the playoffs consistently you can't sell tonnes of 1st rounders, I think that will come back to eventually hurt the Leafs.

I'm not in a position to judge Edmonton's cup chances, but the original post/premise of this thread was that the Oilers needed to do something to take the next step and not waste McDavid/Draisaitl's core years. You're disagreeing with that premise more than me. And for the record, I never said "you can suck forever . . ."

I actually agree with you - if the Oiler's are not in a cup window the next few years, then Rakell shouldn't be a target. That is because in order to move him, the ducks will want a massive payment. It is the same reason the Ducks shouldn't be chasing players like Hall in trades - they shouldn't be giving up futures.

Regarding my second ("go all in") point, you may think it is bad strategy. But it is not - timing is the key. Teams do go all in all the time when they think that trading futures is justified by a chance/window to win the cup (Ducks trade for and resigning of Kesler is a good example as are the recent Leafs deals). By definition, those deals come back to haunt you - you're trading the future for the present and eventually the bill comes due (the ducks are experiencing a bit of that now). The question is when is the right time to do that - and you seem to think that's not now for the Oilers.

Again, I don't disagree with you. If Edmonton is in a 4 year plan, then they shouldn't be trading futures. At the same time, it is not unreasonable to wonder if McDavid and Drais are on board for that after already enduring several years of losing.
 

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