Confirmed with Link: Rick Dudley Leaves Canadiens to Join Carolina Hurricanes

[montreal]

Rick Dudley left the Canadiens when he was most needed,...

So it sounds like he was less the problem then guys like Crawford, Mellanby, LC. I mean how does someone on the pro scouting side suggest they sign Alzner and still have a job?

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

So it sounds like he was less the problem then guys like Crawford, Mellanby, LC. I mean how does someone on the pro scouting side suggest they sign Alzner and still have a job?

Our pro scouting has been an absolute disaster ever since Eric Crawford joined the team in 2016.

 

[Captain Mountain]

So it sounds like he was less the problem then guys like Crawford, Mellanby, LC. I mean how does someone on the pro scouting side suggest they sign Alzner and still have a job?

That's my thinking. I don't think Montreal's Amateur scouting has been good, but its pretty in line with the expected value you'd get based on where they were picking. The Pro scouting (Weber-Subban trade, expectations for Drouin, Shaw, Alzner, etc.) the past few seasons has been so bad (and worse, predictably bad) that you have to expect some changes there. Montreal can't keep failing all their big UFA signings and trades.

I'm also pretty miffed that none of the decision makers in Pro-scouting understand modern player evaluation tools.

 

[Whitesnake]

The GM who couldn't talk in a press conference 'cause he wouldn't want other GM to pick up his secrets let a top amateur scout go with ALL his scouting secrets 2 months before the draft.....

 

[Price is Wright]

The GM who couldn't talk in a press conference 'cause he wouldn't want other GM to pick up his secrets let a top amateur scout go with ALL his scouting secrets 2 months before the draft.....

Dudley: Wanna know who the Habs will be drafting?
*looks at DLR, Vejdemo, McCarron, Fucale*
Waddell: That's not why you're here. Like, at all.

 

[montreal]

Dudley: Wanna know who the Habs will be drafting?
*looks at DLR, Vejdemo, McCarron, Fucale*
Waddell: That's not why you're here. Like, at all.

well he said he's been working with Timmins the past couple of years so likely it's more Sergachev, Mete, Poehling, Brook, Juulsen, Addison I would think.

 

[Habaneros]

The GM who couldn't talk in a press conference 'cause he wouldn't want other GM to pick up his secrets let a top amateur scout go with ALL his scouting secrets 2 months before the draft.....

tough spot...
How can Bergy give him a new 3 year deal after last year when truth be told his own job is on the line ....he knows it ...

We got Frank Jay from Sens before draft..not sure what good it did ...lol

Dudley we got him right before draft from TO..did it make a diff?? i dunno...

It is very ironic Carolina called Montreal when owning 11th..not knowing they would jump us for 2nd...lol...must be a hockey god thing...that does semi suck...but what can ya do...

 

[1909]

if we have chance, Dudley gonna bring Churla with him in Carolina !

he should take Timmins, too.

 

[le_sean]

The GM who couldn't talk in a press conference 'cause he wouldn't want other GM to pick up his secrets let a top amateur scout go with ALL his scouting secrets 2 months before the draft.....

Bergevin said they'd have a meeting with scouts after the U18, another beginning of June and a final one just before the draft. Dudley won't know anything.

I'm surprised he wanted to go work for that owner. That guy seems worse than Melnyk.

 

[OldCraig71]

Bergevin said they'd have a meeting with scouts after the U18, another beginning of June and a final one just before the draft. Dudley won't know anything.

I'm surprised he wanted to go work for that owner. That guy seems worse than Melnyk.

For all we know Dudley may have been fired by Molson but through professional courtesy they made it look like he was leaving to pursue other opportunities.

 

[Habaneros]

For all we know Dudley may have been fired by Molson but through professional courtesy they made it look like he was leaving to pursue other opportunities.

how much does a senior vp of hockey ops make?lol

 

[OldCraig71]

how much does a senior vp of hockey ops make?lol

More than most of us do.

 

[Adam Michaels]

The GM who couldn't talk in a press conference 'cause he wouldn't want other GM to pick up his secrets let a top amateur scout go with ALL his scouting secrets 2 months before the draft.....

That is way too dramatic.

Dudley will go to Carolina with the knowledge he accumulated when he scouted for the Habs, for sure. But to suggest he has ALL of MB's scouting secrets is a bit of an exaggeration. MB himself doesn't have ALL of his secrets yet as there are a number of meetings with his scouts still left. He said they'll have one this week, they'll have another at the combine, and the final one around the draft. So even MB doesn't have all the info from his regional scouts yet.

Not to mention, how will Dudley and Carolina hurt the Habs? They're picking before Habs at 2nd. Is Dudley gonna go to Waddell and the scouting staff and tell them "Hey listen, Habs have their eye on Zadina at 3. So let's take him at 2."

Not to mention, between Carolina's 1st R'd Pick (#2) and their next pick in the 2nd R'd (#42), the Habs have three picks (#3, #35 & #38). And between Carolina's 2nd R'd Pick (#42) and their 3rd R'd Pick (#73), Habs have another three picks (#56. #57 & #66). So by the time Carolina makes their first 3 picks, Habs already made 6.

 

[Whitesnake]

Dudley: Wanna know who the Habs will be drafting?
*looks at DLR, Vejdemo, McCarron, Fucale*
Waddell: That's not why you're here. Like, at all.

Dudley has been scouting this year. By joining the Canes NOW, the only intel he can give this Canes team is scouting. Then, when he joins and settles into a new job, yeah, chances are he'll do other things. But this year...he's been a scout. So he'll give his input at scouting. Besides, he didn't have the last say in guys we drafted. So if Waddell looks at the guys we drafted, Dudley can surely say....there were not my guys.....Sergachev though, that was me...you know....like everybody does? Solely looking at the good ones?

Strange the urge to have Dudley NOW if drafting is NOT what he'd be doing in the few upcoming months.....

 

[Whitesnake]

That is way too dramatic.

Dudley will go to Carolina with the knowledge he accumulated when he scouted for the Habs, for sure. But to suggest he has ALL of MB's scouting secrets is a bit of an exaggeration. MB himself doesn't have ALL of his secrets yet as there are a number of meetings with his scouts still left. He said they'll have one this week, they'll have another at the combine, and the final one around the draft. So even MB doesn't have all the info from his regional scouts yet.

Not to mention, how will Dudley and Carolina hurt the Habs? They're picking before Habs at 2nd. Is Dudley gonna go to Waddell and the scouting staff and tell them "Hey listen, Habs have their eye on Zadina at 3. So let's take him at 2."

Not to mention, between Carolina's 1st R'd Pick (#2) and their next pick in the 2nd R'd (#42), the Habs have three picks (#3, #35 & #38). And between Carolina's 2nd R'd Pick (#42) and their 3rd R'd Pick (#73), Habs have another three picks (#56. #57 & #66). So by the time Carolina makes their first 3 picks, Habs already made 6.

Not sure that was a dramatic tone. First, the whole "I can't divulge anything 'cause people are listening" is probalby one of the dumbest sentence a GM ever said. The recipe to win is simple. Skills and hard work. And in today's NHL, add speed. Bergevin is so full of himself that he really believes that GM are listening and waiting for him to say what is the recipe to winning before they apply it to their team? Yeah, it can't be that stupid...it might just be the stupid Bergevin way to say that he has no idea what he's doing.

But in the end, point is that if everything has to be taken at face value, you cannot say at one hand that you don't want to talk about your plan....and let go a scout 2 months prior to a draft.

The whole meetings issue is just a formal meeting when everybody is seated together....but they talked before. They see each other all year long at different point in time. They are just going to voice it altogether but I'd be surprised if they really learn something different during those meetings.

And it's not just a question of when everybody pick, what will be left. It's also about should we trade to advance because we like a player....what if the Canes really love a player that Timmins already told Dudley how much he is also in love with him?

 

[Whitesnake]

Bergevin said they'd have a meeting with scouts after the U18, another beginning of June and a final one just before the draft. Dudley won't know anything.

I'm surprised he wanted to go work for that owner. That guy seems worse than Melnyk.

Again, meeting is to put everything together with everybody in the same room. You still can bet that everybody talks to each other on different occasions and it most likely won't be surprise what everybody thinks about this or that player. That meeting is probably more for the head scout who will need to be convinced by the scouts about where he should go if there is a choice between 2.

 

[Goldenhands]

did Dudley officially leave before or after the lottery was made?

 

[Darkstorm]

he's going to Carolina with a real good idea of Montreals draft list...lol..

but i guess that was the very same when we got him from Toronto before draft....

He left Toronto after the draft in 2012 and not before, that way Montreal won’t know Toronto’s draft list

 

[Runner77]

The GM who couldn't talk in a press conference 'cause he wouldn't want other GM to pick up his secrets let a top amateur scout go with ALL his scouting secrets 2 months before the draft.....

Just another day at the Habs' orifice.

 

[Runner77]

That is way too dramatic.

Dudley will go to Carolina with the knowledge he accumulated when he scouted for the Habs, for sure. But to suggest he has ALL of MB's scouting secrets is a bit of an exaggeration.

Yeah but I bet Dudley knows the secret to the Crane Kick ...

 

[Habaneros]

He left Toronto after the draft in 2012 and not before, that way Montreal won’t know Toronto’s draft list

May 25, 2012
Rick Dudley named assistant general manager - NHL.com

https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/rick-dudley...assistant-general-manager/c-63267...



The 2012 NHL Entry Draft was the 50th NHL Entry Draft. The draft was held June 22–23, 2012, at Consol Energy Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

 

[Runner77]

Not sure that was a dramatic tone. First, the whole "I can't divulge anything 'cause people are listening" is probalby one of the dumbest sentence a GM ever said. The recipe to win is simple. Skills and hard work. And in today's NHL, add speed. Bergevin is so full of himself that he really believes that GM are listening and waiting for him to say what is the recipe to winning before they apply it to their team? Yeah, it can't be that stupid...it might just be the stupid Bergevin way to say that he has no idea what he's doing.

But in the end, point is that if everything has to be taken at face value, you cannot say at one hand that you don't want to talk about your plan....and let go a scout 2 months prior to a draft.

The whole meetings issue is just a formal meeting when everybody is seated together....but they talked before. They see each other all year long at different point in time. They are just going to voice it altogether but I'd be surprised if they really learn something different during those meetings.

And it's not just a question of when everybody pick, what will be left. It's also about should we trade to advance because we like a player....what if the Canes really love a player that Timmins already told Dudley how much he is also in love with him?

There is no question that the Habs' draft playbook has just migrated to the Hurricanes thanks to Dudley making his way there.

And the whole secret agent garbage that Bergevin has been spewing, only makes him look dumber than he is. What exactly are other team's looking to find out -- how well he can manage a season? How well did last year's plan work? If you're going to make brash statements about protecting your ideas, how about doing so after you've actually proven something or coming off a successful season where you shocked the hockey world? The way Bergevin is talking, it's as if he's sitting on the next Moneyball strategy. It's cringeworthingly hilarious and meme-worthy.

Totally agree with your take about the formal meetings -- it's impossible that the scouting staff and senior management individual like Dudley, have not kept a running list that they've updated together. How else are they going to adjust their travel schedules and upcoming scouting assignments if they don't have an idea of a target group of players they're most interested in? What a pile of bunk. "Yeah guys, let's keep it a big secret. We'll discuss our favorite players in May." Who buys that? Idiots.

Bottom line: if the Habs were truly concerned about Dudley's access to their information, they should have done what Trana did when Bergevin first signed Dudley and make sure he wasn't going to be available to the Habs for the draft immediately following his hiring. Of course, Bergevin is so friendly with Dudley that he can't fathom how Dudley would take advantage of what he's learned while on the Habs' payroll. Worse, all of the information on the amateur side that Dudley accumulated while being paid by the Habs, will never be of full value to the Habs, with the Hurricanes being able to dip into it at the same time.
What a quagmire.

Only good news -- the Habs' drafting has not exactly been stellar while Dudley was spending more time on amateur scouting. So with all the confidential information also comes the Trojan Horse of hockey assessments steeped in intangibles from 30 years ago.

 

[Runner77]

For all we know Dudley may have been fired by Molson but through professional courtesy they made it look like he was leaving to pursue other opportunities.

The timing of Dudley leaving leaves no doubt in my mind that this was a firing by another means.

Normally, when a highly placed executive like Dudley is still valued, an organization doesn't wait til there is one or two months left to his contract, before signing him to another extension

The fact that he was left with no extension at this late stage suggests to me that he knew fully well that his contract wasn't going to be extended. Had he not found the Canes opportunity, I believe Dudley would have faced the same outcomes as Pfeiffer the analytics guy and Craig Ramsay whose expiring contracts simply lapsed and were not renewed. By Dudley placing a few calls and with his buddy Waddell landing a plum job, it allowed Dudley-do-wrong to save face.

It appears to me, however, that Dudley's non-renewal with the Habs, is a strong indicator that Molson meant business when he said there would be massive changes and every part of the organization would be reviewed.

Look at the departing pieces so far -- was there anyone closer to Bergevin than Dudley, Lefebvre and JJD? Perhaps Martin Lapointe, but beyond that -- the core of those with whom Bergevin was most accomodating has been gutted.

 

[groovejuice]

The timing of Dudley leaving leaves no doubt in my mind that this was a firing by another means.

Normally, when a highly placed executive like Dudley is still valued, an organization doesn't wait til there is one or two months left to his contract, before signing him to another extension

The fact that he was left with no extension at this late stage suggests to me that he knew fully well that his contract wasn't going to be extended. Had he not found the Canes opportunity, I believe Dudley would have faced the same outcomes as Pfeiffer the analytics guy and Craig Ramsay whose expiring contracts simply lapsed and were not renewed. By Dudley placing a few calls and with his buddy Waddell landing a plum job, it allowed Dudley-do-wrong to save face.

It appears to me, however, that Dudley's non-renewal with the Habs, is a strong indicator that Molson meant business when he said there would be massive changes and every part of the organization would be reviewed.

Look at the departing pieces so far -- was there anyone closer to Bergevin than Dudley, Lefebvre and JJD? Perhaps Martin Lapointe, but beyond that -- the core of those with whom Bergevin was most accomodating has been gutted.

Can't even call it proactive, since that red flag of nepotism has been flying since Bergevin's very first days.

Someone is definitely pressuring Molson.

 

[Runner77]

Rick Dudley left the Canadiens when he was most needed,...

The quote from the above post, is worth reprising:

“I’d say in the last few years I gravitated more to the amateur side of things and did a lot of amateur scouting and a lot of work with Shane Churla and Trevor Timmins,” Dudley said in a conference call. “The pro side there has Eric Crawford and Scott Mellanby and a couple of other people, and they did the heavy lifting on the pro side for the most part. I did some; when there was a specific need for a report Berg would ask me to look at a player and I would do that.

“But for the most part, I’m extremely proud of the work that’s been done on the amateur side in Montreal and I’m proud to say I was a part of that. I think in the last couple of drafts, I think you’ll see in the next couple of years that they’ve added several players that are going to help them, help them a lot.”

This is the most telling quote and one that assigns the sources of responsibility for all the pro player procurement gaffes of the last 2-3 years. The fact that those who made recommendations about Alzner, Ott, King, Martinsen, Streit, etc. were allowed to continue with the organization, is the most disturbing aspect. We now know for a fact that these decisions belonged mostly to Crawford and Mellanby, with some participation by Dudley. While Dudley is minimizing his role on the pro scouting side, it's equally disturbing that if he had any sense of how awry the Habs' pro intel was, that Bergevin only deemed it necessary that he intervene only on those pro players he was specifically instructed by Bergevin to look into.

This organization is in shambles, it committed a ton of blunders and yet there doesn't seem to have been any rapid response by management to stop the bleeding. Instead of that, the same people who advised Bergevin continued to pile on useless advice that led up to the Alzner signing.

The pro scouting side is now the biggest boat anchor -- Crawford and Mellanby need to be brought to account otherwise, Dudley's departure will have been too easy, too little and too late.