Reset the rebuild

[Back in Black]

Whoa....today is nowhere close to 1992.

It is in the standings.......

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

The team is still recovering from the horrible drafting during the Muckler era. Murray has had to completely overhaul the roster from scratch without the benefit of any top 5 picks. It's still in progress and "blowing" up the team is not required right now.

A few pieces are needed and they'll be fine.

It is time to stop blaming Muckler. Murry has been GM since 2007-2008 until X (assume next year). That is seven drafts, maybe eight, to put his best foot forward and he has failed. He got one super gem in Karlsson and a tweener in Hoffman and...not much. No superstars, no elites, nothing. He squandered draft picks on steaming piles of dung like Matt Cullen, Alex Picard, that goon idiot that said "Are you an expert?" and is not irrelevant. The only good player trade he's had so far was Rundblad for Turris and Ryan....but he gave a lot for Ryan.

He's had ample time to "get a few pieces". This team needs:
#1 Centre (a true one, Turris is a #2)
1-2 elite wingers (Ryan is a #3 wing, second line)
#2 D (Better than Methot)
#3-#4 D (So we can avoid playing Cowen/Boro/Gryba)

But that's not the only problem. Murray has this infuriating obsession with character and slow plugs like Boro, Sutton, Gryba, Phillips, etc. etc. And unfortunately for the team, these players do no produce and are not very good.

It's time for an outside GM to come in and blow this roster up. Get rid of the plugs and replace them with fast, young, skilled players that play a two-way game. If you're slow you don't play. Period. And anyone bringing up our early Sens that were like this...the league is moving away from hitting/hard hits so this is exactly what we need to be.

Won't ever happen under Murray because, as stated, not ruthless enough and way too nice. We need an ******* as a GM and preferably an ******* that has won.

Oh, P.S. Murray could have had two top five picks. He keeps Elliott and he gets Landeskog. He rips the roster up earlier and he can get Tavares. That's Murray's fault, again he tried to patch and the team suffered. Let's see if he learns this year..."probably not".

 

[General Zodd]

A strong franchise is always in "rebuild" mode. That's the key in Detroit.

Good teams "retool" IMO.

Glad that long rebuild finally has paid off and we're a shoe-in for the big dance this spring.

 

[Savitar]

Murray should not be the GM here. He has been here too long. Yes Ottawa has done some great things but in all honesty your track record speaks for itself. We didn't do a proper rebuild. We shouldn't of traded for Anderson, Kuba should of been traded but wasn't when we could of got a 2nd-3rd Round Pick, (Look at him now Bust) we never should of traded for Hemsky and don't even have a 3rd in a loaded draft, We got nothing for Brian Lee when he started to progress, he's traded so many 2nd and 3rd round picks we could of had some good prospects to build around, onto his 5th head coach in 8 years, has taken a lot or high risk high reward picks that haven't panned out except for Hoffman and Stone. He has not gotten enough value back in several trades, he had infatuations with Greening, Gryba, Condra, Phillips, Neil , Smith and Boro. We can do better than that. After 8 years and not taking the proper patience to rbuild this team for the 3 years he had too, traded for Bishop after Lehner had a rough get go to start the season was a mistake we should of kept that pick and used it in the 2015 draft, not drafting Brayden Point last year, we had a chance to get him after we got Englund, his teams always turn over the puck, should of not resigned Anderson and gave the job to Lehner.

The fact that he wants a top 6 forward now is ridiculous, we need to instead trade Greening (Waive him) Methot, Condra, Anderson etc

I owe Murray loyalty and empathy for Having terminal cancer, but overall looks my at the last 8 years he's lacked direction, taken the wrong approach, chosen the wrong coaches including Cameron with or without Melynks interference with hockey decisions. Even if he was promised the job Murray is the GM and should be able to pick the coaching staff. Poorly constructed rosters, thinking Gonchar was the key to the Stanley Cup, lack of communication with coaches etc.

I think that it's only a matter of time before we get a new GM, Murray is a fighter but we know it's a fight he won't win. He eventually needs to spend time with his family and do some amazing things before his disease gets into its final stages. I'd imagine next season is his last before Dorion takes over

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It is in the standings.......

You do realize the '92 Sens were the second worst team in NHL history, right?

 

[operasen]

Unfortunately this team is not going to be making the playoffs this yr & I now agree they should make a reset to rebuild. I think it is obvious now that coaching wasn't the problem, the team is playing slightly better under Cameron but the result is basically the same. This team isn't good enough & need different players, now the question is which players need to go & which players they should build around.

1. Trade Anderson to Minny for Charlie Coyle or their 2015 1st rd pick, I doubt you get both.

2. Trade all of these guys Phillips, Legwand, Michalek, Greening, Condra, Wiercioch & maybe Smith, if you can find someone who will take them. Those you cannot trade, waive to buy them out & get out of these contracts that are going nowhere.

3. I tend to think that at some point in the future that Ottawa will end up with a brand new management team from top to bottom. These are the players this management team thought would make this team a playoff contender & it has not worked out, in fact, it has been a dismal failure. While the timing may not be the best now at some point a new management team will be required to change the direction of this group & give fans some hope for the future.

4. Make up your mind with Methot, either sign him long term or trade him by the deadline but do something with him. He still looks like a player to me that could help this team but at the same time he could have enough value to return a high pick or very good prospect. IMO Anderson & Methot could be our best chips to trade at the deadline who can return the best prospects & picks we could hope for especially in this coming deep draft.

5. Decide which young players you see as players long term & those who may not & start looking to move whichever guys are no longer part of this team's future. Package these young players that are not seen as future players in Ottawa along with the vets above we want to get rid of could help to make a trade possible. Bingo doesn't seem to be going anywhere this yr either so making moves won't necessarily hurt them all that much either.

6. Start looking at some of the young guys in Ottawa, Puempel, D. Grant, Robinson, Prince etc... have a look at them in the NHL to see if they have any future with the team. If not, trade some.

7. Try & build as good a team as possible not just in Ottawa but in Bingo as well. Look at the kind of players they are drafting & see if that should change.

This is EXACTLY what Murray needs to do. Biancosaurus is probably correct as well that Murray is not ruthless enough, plus he wants to leave the game as a winner, as much as possible. He to the world he wants a Top 6 forward, and that will cost us picks and prospects, not the players we need to trade as mentioned above.

Melnyk needs to get involved on deciding on his next GM and make the move - or at least get his ducks in a row. Murray needs to stick with the plan and draft as high as possible - let the kids play as much as possible. Let's see Prince and Puempel before they are moved out for more aging (sold as top 6) forwards.

 

[thinkwild]

i cant help but think that many here, when thinking of the term "rebuild" are thinking in term of a 3 year process: try to lose, draft high for a year or two, bake at 350 degrees till the 3 yrs are over, then contend! If after 3 yrs are over you arent contending, you failed, blow it up, try again.

Or that we can properly tank. I guess it would go like this.

1. It’s important to fall behind early in games. So I would pull the goalie to start games. We can justify this by saying we are really going for it with new blogger sourced data analytics that say it’s a good idea. If we accidentally score, have the goalie fake an injury and the backup goalie run to the can puking. This will force a defenceman into the game with goalie gear until we are down by two goals.
2. Always go through the motions until down by two goals. Then try real hard to get the next goal.
3. Send rookies back to the A; they try too hard. Bring up AHL lifers and reward some vets instead with top line ice time.
4. In games against buffalo, we have a real advantage with the Murrays in control. So I would arrange to fix those games so that if it’s tied toward the end of regulation, one team agrees to give up a goal quickly to ensure there is no 3 pt. game. No need for those. We can take turns losing.
5. Trade Anderson and Karlsson. Just imagine the return in picks and prospects behind curtain #3. Then in 3 yrs we can go out and buy another Anderson and Karlsson on the ufa market or trade for them if we need to.

Now maybe it sounds a little outlandish the way I have casually written it, but the whole point about tanking is that you make it look good while trying to lose. You have to sell it a bit, that’s part of the tank job. Melnyk should pay for some acting coaches to come in. Maybe that LA actor who did the Spartan guy needs work again and could be our acting coach.

Some fans are saying they want to tank, they pay lip service to it, but then arent willing to go the extra mile like i've laid out. These fans obviously arent willing to tank walk the tank walk.
And just imagine those Buffalo games. Those will become the proverbial negative 4 pt games. We can probably change those to become the new premium priced games for tanker fans to cheer on the loss at, with bonus pts and 3 star awards given for losing in a classy, believable way.

Mmmmm, just imagine if we could draft Ryan Nugent McHanafin this year. We'd be set i tell ya.

 

[Micklebot]

i cant help but think that many here, when thinking of the term "rebuild" are thinking in term of a 3 year process: try to lose, draft high for a year or two, bake at 350 degrees till the 3 yrs are over, then contend! If after 3 yrs are over you arent contending, you failed, blow it up, try again.

Or that we can properly tank. I guess it would go like this.

1. It’s important to fall behind early in games. So I would pull the goalie to start games. We can justify this by saying we are really going for it with new blogger sourced data analytics that say it’s a good idea. If we accidentally score, have the goalie fake an injury and the backup goalie run to the can puking. This will force a defenceman into the game with goalie gear until we are down by two goals.
2. Always go through the motions until down by two goals. Then try real hard to get the next goal.
3. Send rookies back to the A; they try too hard. Bring up AHL lifers and reward some vets instead with top line ice time.
4. In games against buffalo, we have a real advantage with the Murrays in control. So I would arrange to fix those games so that if it’s tied toward the end of regulation, one team agrees to give up a goal quickly to ensure there is no 3 pt. game. No need for those. We can take turns losing.
5. Trade Anderson and Karlsson. Just imagine the return in picks and prospects behind curtain #3. Then in 3 yrs we can go out and buy another Anderson and Karlsson on the ufa market or trade for them if we need to.

Now maybe it sounds a little outlandish the way I have casually written it, but the whole point about tanking is that you make it look good while trying to lose. You have to sell it a bit, that’s part of the tank job. Melnyk should pay for some acting coaches to come in. Maybe that LA actor who did the Spartan guy needs work again and could be our acting coach.

Some fans are saying they want to tank, they pay lip service to it, but then arent willing to go the extra mile like i've laid out. These fans obviously arent willing to tank walk the tank walk.
And just imagine those Buffalo games. Those will become the proverbial negative 4 pt games. We can probably change those to become the new premium priced games for tanker fans to cheer on the loss at, with bonus pts and 3 star awards given for losing in a classy, believable way.

Mmmmm, just imagine if we could draft Ryan Nugent McHanafin this year. We'd be set i tell ya.

I hereby nominate this post for post post of the year; well done thinkwild, less than two weeks in and we can pretty much wrap up one of the forum's most coveted awards.

 

[Sensinitis]

I have this intuition that the rebuild will be complete once Neil and Phillips aren't on the team anymore (and by extension, Legwand/Michalek/Greening/etc.) and that that's when we start spending and finally become competitive.

 

[pepty]

Sounds like Wayne Scanlan is also afraid that Murray is going to go out and trade who knows who to get a top 6 player to try to get the Sens into the playoffs.

Murray seems to have convinced himself and Muckler' if no one else that this is a playoff team. It seems like Scanlan is trying to gently warn him that Sens fans would not be happy at losing good young players or picks to try to take a likely doomed run at the playoffs.

Last rebuild people bought into but the problem was just as we thought there would be a payoff,Melnyk announced we were now a budget team and went into pouting mode over the Casino, there was the Alfie fiasco and so on.

i dont think a bait and switch will fly again, and they have seen the limit to fans patience, but saying goodbye to the playoffs which they will likely have to do anyway and getting some good picks from what is supposed to be a great draft year would be okay with most fans as long as there is a true rebuild toward a contending team.

Of course it could be that its not the fans that Murray s trying to placate maybe Melnyk wants that playoff revenue.

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...-are-on-board-with-a-reload-through-the-draft

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Sounds like Wayne Scanlan is also afraid that Murray is going to go out and trade who knows who to get a top 6 player to try to get the Sens into the playoffs.

Murray seems to have convinced himself and Muckler' if no one else that this is a playoff team. It seems like Scanlan is trying to gently warn him that Sens fans would not be happy at losing good young players or picks to try to take a likely doomed run at the playoffs.

Last rebuild people bought into but the problem was just as we thought there would be a payoff,Melnyk announced we were now a budget team and went into pouting mode over the Casino, there was the Alfie fiasco and so on.

i dont think a bait and switch will fly again, and they have seen the limit to fans patience, but saying goodbye to the playoffs which they will likely have to do anyway and getting some good picks from what is supposed to be a great draft year would be okay with most fans as long as there is a true rebuild toward a contending team.

Of course it could be that its not the fans that Murray s trying to placate maybe Melnyk wants that playoff revenue.

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...-are-on-board-with-a-reload-through-the-draft

I hope management doesn't think we are a playoff team this year and sells some assets for a highly unlikely run

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Surprised by the amount of fans who dont like Boro and Andy. Andy is arguably one of the best pick ups in sens history. Boro is a rookie who's played anywhere from bottom pairing to top pairing and hasnt sucked.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I am looking forward to Boro being healthy, so we can sit Phillips for an extended period. Phillips at 15mins per night is okay... but Boro at 15 is better.

 

[Xspyrit]

You'd have to be a bit clueless if you do not hope that the Sens make another Bobby Ryan type of trade. Sure, you lose a bit of those shinny toys (prospects and picks) but you gain a quality player. That's how you can hope to upgrade your line-up via trade. You always have to look at trading quantity for quality

Hopefully it's for a better Center than what they already have (unlikely though) so you can go

Hoffman-Center-Ryan (50-70 pts each)
MacArthur-Turris-Stone (40-60 pts each)
Chiasson-Zibanejad-Lazar (30-40 pts each)
Michalek-Smith/Pageau-Condra/Neil

A strong franchise is always in "rebuild" mode. That's the key in Detroit.

Detroit is pretty much the only team that has not really "rebuilt" in the last 2 decades. What is funny is that Sens fans think they have it the hard way. Must be something to live in a gilded cage. Hawks and LA, the 2 most recent successful teams, had it way worse for much longer, aka not making the playoffs for like 7 years.

i cant help but think that many here, when thinking of the term "rebuild" are thinking in term of a 3 year process: try to lose, draft high for a year or two, bake at 350 degrees till the 3 yrs are over, then contend! If after 3 yrs are over you arent contending, you failed, blow it up, try again.

Or that we can properly tank. I guess it would go like this.

1. It’s important to fall behind early in games. So I would pull the goalie to start games. We can justify this by saying we are really going for it with new blogger sourced data analytics that say it’s a good idea. If we accidentally score, have the goalie fake an injury and the backup goalie run to the can puking. This will force a defenceman into the game with goalie gear until we are down by two goals.
2. Always go through the motions until down by two goals. Then try real hard to get the next goal.
3. Send rookies back to the A; they try too hard. Bring up AHL lifers and reward some vets instead with top line ice time.
4. In games against buffalo, we have a real advantage with the Murrays in control. So I would arrange to fix those games so that if it’s tied toward the end of regulation, one team agrees to give up a goal quickly to ensure there is no 3 pt. game. No need for those. We can take turns losing.
5. Trade Anderson and Karlsson. Just imagine the return in picks and prospects behind curtain #3. Then in 3 yrs we can go out and buy another Anderson and Karlsson on the ufa market or trade for them if we need to.

Now maybe it sounds a little outlandish the way I have casually written it, but the whole point about tanking is that you make it look good while trying to lose. You have to sell it a bit, that’s part of the tank job. Melnyk should pay for some acting coaches to come in. Maybe that LA actor who did the Spartan guy needs work again and could be our acting coach.

Some fans are saying they want to tank, they pay lip service to it, but then arent willing to go the extra mile like i've laid out. These fans obviously arent willing to tank walk the tank walk.
And just imagine those Buffalo games. Those will become the proverbial negative 4 pt games. We can probably change those to become the new premium priced games for tanker fans to cheer on the loss at, with bonus pts and 3 star awards given for losing in a classy, believable way.

Mmmmm, just imagine if we could draft Ryan Nugent McHanafin this year. We'd be set i tell ya.

At least there's still some sane people around here. Strange thing to say with a very sarcastic post but you get what I mean

It is time to stop blaming Muckler. Murry has been GM since 2007-2008 until X (assume next year). That is seven drafts, maybe eight, to put his best foot forward and he has failed. He got one super gem in Karlsson and a tweener in Hoffman and...not much. No superstars, no elites, nothing.

Well, you have always been the most erroneous poster for me, but how can you write all this and then look yourself in the mirror and say "am I honest in my assessment?"

- 7 drafts but only the first 3 have started to really paid off (Karlsson, Smith, Wiercioch, Borowiecki, Grant) + (Cowen, Silfverberg = Ryan, Lehner, Hoffman, Wideman) + (Turris, Stone)... For the rest, you have already Pageau, Zibanejad, Ceci and Lazar starting to coming into their own but that's only the beginning because it's still very early (takes 5 years after a draft to start reaping the benefits)

- Hoffman is a tweener? Ok, you are not watching the games I suppose...

- "He squandered draft picks on steaming piles of dung like Matt Cullen, Alex Picard, that goon idiot that said "Are you an expert?" and is not irrelevant" : now that is pure garbage... First Matt Cullen was an excellent pick-up, the kind of that every wants to have nearing spring time. Picard was a throw in in the Meszaros trade, Kuba was cheaper and better and the (late) first was used to get a cheap young puck mover, then a 2nd and Potulny (key for Bingo Calder Cup) 2.5 years later. Sutton was also seen as a good pick up. During his tenure, Murray has acquired way more picks and free wallets than he spent picks... But do people understand that?

- "The only good player trade he's had so far was Rundblad for Turris and Ryan....but he gave a lot for Ryan." : What about Anderson? What about Methot? Let me guess, that's Murray's fault if the guy is injured...

- "He's had ample time to "get a few pieces". This team needs:
#1 Centre (a true one, Turris is a #2) That I can agree, but they had Spezza WHO himself chose to leave Ottawa. Do you think a team can replace a first line center right away? Delusional
1-2 elite wingers (Ryan is a #3 wing, second line) If Ryan is your 3rd best winger, you're pretty much the best team in the league, unless your Centers, Defense and goaltending are nothing special.
#2 D (Better than Methot) Very hard to acquire, the plan is to develop Ceci, Cowen and other prospects and hope for the best. If not, acquire another Methot, because that's pretty much all Ottawa can do, I'd very surprise if Ottawa can attract a better D-man via UFA.
#3-#4 D (So we can avoid playing Cowen/Boro/Gryba)" Ceci already plays in the top-4, so is he crap? Karlsson + Methot + Ceci + Cowen is a decent top-4, would be better if Karlsson was playing better defense and if Methot was healthy. Of course, this is still a work in progress. Do people have an idea of their total NHL games of experience? Cowen is starting to come on his own once again, he is far from crap. He is young and his development has bee slowed a lot by severe injuries (basically lost 2 years)

- "But that's not the only problem. Murray has this infuriating obsession with character and slow plugs like Boro, Sutton, Gryba, Phillips, etc. etc. And unfortunately for the team, these players do no produce and are not very good." That's severe ignorance of the NHL if you think other teams don't have depth D-men like this... Look at Montreal for example and the D-men they had in the last few years. Doing well in the standings because they have elite goaltending and a very efficient system played by a veteran team (which Ottawa is not)

- "It's time for an outside GM to come in and blow this roster up. Get rid of the plugs and replace them with fast, young, skilled players that play a two-way game. If you're slow you don't play. Period. And anyone bringing up our early Sens that were like this...the league is moving away from hitting/hard hits so this is exactly what we need to be." lol no... a new GM will come because Murray is about to die but I'd be more than surprised if the new GM deals the young core of this team. The situation actually looks like Anaheim before they win the Cup. Sens just need experience and a few tweaks and will be ready to contend. If there's something I wish Murray did different was to hire an experienced coach but they had to rebuild anyway. Contending windows don't last forever and the Sens did make the playoffs 11 years in a row

- "Oh, P.S. Murray could have had two top five picks. He keeps Elliott and he gets Landeskog. He rips the roster up earlier and he can get Tavares. That's Murray's fault, again he tried to patch and the team suffered. Let's see if he learns this year..."probably not"." : more crap... I guess it could work like that on your PlayStation but not in the real world, they are all athletes who have trained all their life to WIN, tanking doesn't exist. NHL philosophy is you draft where you draft. That's why you see so many teams every team having a good run at the end of the season once the pressure is off. Every team tries to improve their roster, unless they are out by far and sell at the deadline, like the Sens did in 2010-11, which is pretty much the only season it was the case...

It's incredible how people act like this team has been a bottom feeder for the last decade but reality is that the worse results are 21st, 22nd and 26th in the standings. Wake up and smell the concrete.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Sounds like Wayne Scanlan is also afraid that Murray is going to go out and trade who knows who to get a top 6 player to try to get the Sens into the playoffs.

Murray seems to have convinced himself and Muckler' if no one else that this is a playoff team. It seems like Scanlan is trying to gently warn him that Sens fans would not be happy at losing good young players or picks to try to take a likely doomed run at the playoffs.

Last rebuild people bought into but the problem was just as we thought there would be a payoff,Melnyk announced we were now a budget team and went into pouting mode over the Casino, there was the Alfie fiasco and so on.

i dont think a bait and switch will fly again, and they have seen the limit to fans patience, but saying goodbye to the playoffs which they will likely have to do anyway and getting some good picks from what is supposed to be a great draft year would be okay with most fans as long as there is a true rebuild toward a contending team.

Of course it could be that its not the fans that Murray s trying to placate maybe Melnyk wants that playoff revenue.

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...-are-on-board-with-a-reload-through-the-draft

It's all well and good that fans on social media are ok with the team not selling assets on a very long shot to make the playoffs

However making the playoffs makes this team lots of money, that's what truly matters as well as the experience the team gains

If we make another Bobby Ryan type trade for a centre that has more offensive upside than Turris and that we have a shot at retaining then it's a slamdunk, you do it. If it's picks for a UFA to be then forget about it. IT isn't about "trade/no trade", it's about "what kind of trade would it be".

 

[Benjamin]

It's all well and good that fans on social media are ok with the team not selling assets on a very long shot to make the playoffs

However making the playoffs makes this team lots of money, that's what truly matters as well as the experience the team gains

If we make another Bobby Ryan type trade for a centre that has more offensive upside than Turris and that we have a shot at retaining then it's a slamdunk, you do it. If it's picks for a UFA to be then forget about it. IT isn't about "trade/no trade", it's about "what kind of trade would it be".

Agreed.

I'll gladly take another Ryan trade. Ill be pissed if with make a foolish trade for a rental.