Raptors Discussion: REPORT: Raptors trade DeRozan, Poeltl, Protected 1st to Spurs for Leonard, Green

[Forgotusername]

Which one of the following is he better than today..?

Curry
Lillard
Irving
Westbrook
Wall
Walker
Simmons

I'll take Curry, and Westbrook, then Lowry.

 

[Skolman]

No.



I'm being serious.



Nope.



Yep.



Yes, he is.

K well you clearly know nothing about basketball.

The 76ers refused to move Fultz for Kawhi, but you think they would trade him in a package with other quality players for Lowry?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Which one of the following is he better than today..?

Curry
Lillard
Irving
Westbrook
Wall
Walker
Simmons

Wall, Walker, Kyrie, Simmons

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

K well you clearly know nothing about basketball.

The 76ers refused to move Fultz for Kawhi, but you think they would trade him in a package with other quality players for Lowry?

Yep.

 

[zeke]

Uh wtf man. No he isn't

he is.

 

[Albert Iafrate]

I also think that Masaii goes after a big fish UFA next off-season as a way to convince Kawaii to stay for his option year, and possibly beyond. Have our own "big three". The most obvious choices would be Jimmy Butler or Klay Thompson. Can you imagine Kawaii, Butler/Thompson, Lowry?

 

[Bluelines]

I strongly disagree about Lowry. The market for might not be big as I believe that there are a lot of good PG's in the NBA right now but still, I doubt we'd have to pay someone to take him, that seems just nuts to me. On the other hand, he's still a HUGE part of our team, he was very good in the playoffs (as always), he only has two more years left on his deal ... basically there's zero reason to even think about trading him right now so how big the market may or may not be for him is irrelevant anyway.

I missed your earlier post about Giannis but that's interesting. Not sure how big our Greek population is but it might be pretty big and our "Greektown" is pretty cool. We may have the cap space to sign him but I doubt that means our chances are great, I'm sure there will be other teams with cap space and every team that does would be happy to make a pitch for Giannis.

At a certain point every GM has to look at what he has and say to himself, can I win with these people? If the answer is No, you have to make a move, no matter how talented that player is.

Although I know little about B-Ball, I think know people pretty good. I saw that DD looked defeated after the 1st game loss vs the Cav's , he looked like he was resigned to losing the series. I think Masai saw this too and realized that DD was better off somewhere else. IMO the Raps could not win with Demar, although he was a highly skilled player he's not a winner (yet).

Kyle has a combustible personality, he has lots of fight in him which is good and bad, IMO he has a very high compete level. If Kyle can put this trade behind him, he's a guy you want but if he takes the other route and stews about his best friend on the team being traded, it would IMO be wise to trade him.

 

[Cor]

This thread has descended into a “no he isn’t!” “Yes he is” thread, and I love it!

 

[zeke]

Eh, its close. I'd say tangible, who will actually help you win more, you're correct. You have to bake in some improvement to Giannis given the age.

Kawhi is only 3yrs older than Giannis, for the record.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Kawhi is only 3yrs older than Giannis, for the record.

I am aware, my friend.

This thread has descended into a “no he isn’t!” “Yes he is” thread, and I love it!

I like to think of it as more of a quantitative evidence vs. "no he isn't!" kind of thread. I too Love it.

 

[Skolman]

Kawhi is only 3yrs older than Giannis, for the record.

4 actually.

Giannis is 23
Kawhi is 27

 

[Bluelines]

This thread has descended into a “no he isn’t!” “Yes he is” thread, and I love it!

No you don't!

 

[Clark4Ever]

The fact that the US media is melting down about this tells me this was the right move. We're like the "heel" in WWE to the American media. They love hating on us. I think they are legit scared either he stays here, and we become the best team in the East, or that we win it all with him this year. It's almost like they are trying to turn everyone around him listening (including Kawaii) against us. I trust though, that the more time Kawaii spends with our guys, in our city, his tone will change. We are the perfect place for him to shine. Plus who knows what the US will look like in 12 months based on the way Trump is moving the country into chaos. Living and working in Canada vs. LA might be appealing to an african-american in 2019.

In terms of the trade, I couldn't believe that we didn't have to give up OG/Siakam/Wright. And getting that pick protected was masterwork on Masai's part. As for Derozan, I have always felt like he was the one player that was holding us back in the playoffs. As hard as he worked to develop and grow (I've never seen a player work as hard to change and improve in any sport ever), there is one thing that he is missing, and that is his own self-doubt. Trust me, I've suffered from anxiety and depression for most of my life (I'm 41 now), and as functional and great as I've been able to make my life, there is no way I could handle the pressure of being the main star of an NBA franchise. No amount of effort, medication, therapy, money, security, family support would matter. I know my limitations. This might sound callous, but when he came out and bravely admitted that he suffered from mental health issues, his struggles in the playoffs made SO much sense to me. People will tell you all your life that "anyone can do anything". Having depression is a disability, just as serious and debilitating as any physical one. As much as we love overcoming adversity, disabilities can be managed and improved immensely, but they limit us to what we can achieve. I don't think it's a coincidence that a guy like Kevin Love also has struggled in the playoffs. You can have all the talent in the the world with your body, all the will power in the world, you have limits. We all do.

All that being said, I love DD. He has been my favourite basketball player of all time as a person and role model. He just has a ceiling to where he can take us, so if we wanted to move past that point, we either had to get someone better than him to take the pressure off, or move on from him, and we didn't have the space or ability to get that guy. He's perfect as a number three option on a championship team. An outstanding high volume scorer who ultimately doesn't need to take that final shot.

Agreed on all counts. Well said.

 

[zeke]

Which one of the following is he better than today..?

Curry
Lillard
Irving
Westbrook
Wall
Walker
Simmons

Let's look at the two major all-around stats - Real Plus Minus and Net Rating.

PGs 2017-2018

1.C.Paul 6.99rpm
2.S.Curry 6.65rpm
3.K.Lowry 5.18rpm
4.R.Westbrook 5.16rpm
5.D.Lillard 4.90rpm

1.S.Curry +14.7nrtg
2.C.Paul +12.8nrtg
3.B.Simmons +8.0nrtg
4.K.Lowry +7.5nrtg
5.R.Westbrook +5.7


PGs 2016-17

1.C.Paul 7.92rpm
2.S.Curry 7.41rpm
3.R.Westbrook 6.27rpm
4.K.Lowry5.88rpm
5.M.Conley 4.47rpm

1.S.Curry +17.2nrtg
2.C.Paul +14.9nrtg
3.K.Lowry +8.2nrtg
4.K.Irving +5.1nrtg
5.I.Thomas +5.0nrtg

 

[zeke]

4 actually.

Giannis is 23
Kawhi is 27

eh, Giannis will turn 24 this year.

 

[Daeomer]

I am aware, my friend. I like to think of it as more of a quantitative evidence vs. "no he isn't!" kind of thread. I too Love it.

Long time reader, first time poster joining to say I just like seeing two of my favorite posters (Zeke and DJQ) working together for a change!

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Let's look at the two major all-around stats - Real Plus Minus and Net Rating.

PGs 2017-2018

1.C.Paul 6.99rpm
2.S.Curry 6.65rpm
3.K.Lowry 5.18rpm
4.R.Westbrook 5.16rpm
5.D.Lillard 4.90rpm

1.S.Curry +14.7nrtg
2.C.Paul +12.8nrtg
3.B.Simmons +8.0nrtg
4.K.Lowry +7.5nrtg
5.R.Westbrook +5.7


PGs 2016-17

1.C.Paul 7.92rpm
2.S.Curry 7.41rpm
3.R.Westbrook 6.27rpm
4.K.Lowry5.88rpm
5.M.Conley 4.47rpm

1.S.Curry +17.2nrtg
2.C.Paul +14.9nrtg
3.K.Lowry +8.2nrtg
4.K.Irving +5.1nrtg
5.I.Thomas +5.0nrtg

Vorp and WS/48, and he's top-5 easy as well. Kyle's ill. Been ill. Appropriately paid. And if people think Chris Paul (who's a year older) is still an elite contributor, so's Kyle.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The fact that the US media is melting down about this tells me this was the right move. We're like the "heel" in WWE to the American media. They love hating on us. I think they are legit scared either he stays here, and we become the best team in the East, or that we win it all with him this year. It's almost like they are trying to turn everyone around him listening (including Kawaii) against us. I trust though, that the more time Kawaii spends with our guys, in our city, his tone will change. We are the perfect place for him to shine. Plus who knows what the US will look like in 12 months based on the way Trump is moving the country into chaos. Living and working in Canada vs. LA might be appealing to an african-american in 2019.

In terms of the trade, I couldn't believe that we didn't have to give up OG/Siakam/Wright. And getting that pick protected was masterwork on Masai's part. As for Derozan, I have always felt like he was the one player that was holding us back in the playoffs. As hard as he worked to develop and grow (I've never seen a player work as hard to change and improve in any sport ever), there is one thing that he is missing, and that is his own self-doubt. Trust me, I've suffered from anxiety and depression for most of my life (I'm 41 now), and as functional and great as I've been able to make my life, there is no way I could handle the pressure of being the main star of an NBA franchise. No amount of effort, medication, therapy, money, security, family support would matter. I know my limitations. This might sound callous, but when he came out and bravely admitted that he suffered from mental health issues, his struggles in the playoffs made SO much sense to me. People will tell you all your life that "anyone can do anything". Having depression is a disability, just as serious and debilitating as any physical one. As much as we love overcoming adversity, disabilities can be managed and improved immensely, but they limit us to what we can achieve. I don't think it's a coincidence that a guy like Kevin Love also has struggled in the playoffs. You can have all the talent in the the world with your body, all the will power in the world, you have limits. We all do.

All that being said, I love DD. He has been my favourite basketball player of all time as a person and role model. He just has a ceiling to where he can take us, so if we wanted to move past that point, we either had to get someone better than him to take the pressure off, or move on from him, and we didn't have the space or ability to get that guy. He's perfect as a number three option on a championship team. An outstanding high volume scorer who ultimately doesn't need to take that final shot.

I don't know about the perfect number three option part but whatever. Everything else is spot on IMO and the part about linking the depression to playoff struggles is very interesting, I'd never thought about it that way but it makes sense.

Fantastic post!

 

[mapleleafs34]

If we manage to convince Kawhi to stay that would look SOOOO good with regards to attracting some big name FA's in the coming years.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Let's look at the two major all-around stats - Real Plus Minus and Net Rating.

PGs 2017-2018

1.C.Paul 6.99rpm
2.S.Curry 6.65rpm
3.K.Lowry 5.18rpm
4.R.Westbrook 5.16rpm
5.D.Lillard 4.90rpm

1.S.Curry +14.7nrtg
2.C.Paul +12.8nrtg
3.B.Simmons +8.0nrtg
4.K.Lowry +7.5nrtg
5.R.Westbrook +5.7


PGs 2016-17

1.C.Paul 7.92rpm
2.S.Curry 7.41rpm
3.R.Westbrook 6.27rpm
4.K.Lowry5.88rpm
5.M.Conley 4.47rpm

1.S.Curry +17.2nrtg
2.C.Paul +14.9nrtg
3.K.Lowry +8.2nrtg
4.K.Irving +5.1nrtg
5.I.Thomas +5.0nrtg

Zeke bringing it with the stats again.

I didn't realize Kyle's numbers were that good. I take back what I said earlier about you rating him too high, looks like you were right after all.

Damn this is exciting stuff. Going into the next season we look to have the best hockey team and the best basketball team we've had in all my years following Toronto sports teams which is 45+ years now. How can I be expected to get any work done today? I've actually done a fair bit already but I'm not sure how I did it.

 

[Pilky01]

The fact that the US media is melting down about this tells me this was the right move. We're like the "heel" in WWE to the American media. They love hating on us. I think they are legit scared either he stays here, and we become the best team in the East, or that we win it all with him this year. It's almost like they are trying to turn everyone around him listening (including Kawaii) against us. I trust though, that the more time Kawaii spends with our guys, in our city, his tone will change. We are the perfect place for him to shine. Plus who knows what the US will look like in 12 months based on the way Trump is moving the country into chaos. Living and working in Canada vs. LA might be appealing to an african-american in 2019.

A very optimistic outlook.

It could also be that Kawhi is as reported and doesn't want to play in Toronto. Until Kawai actually says something I see no reason to believe he has any desire to play for Toronto.

24 hours now and still not a word from the man......

 

[Skolman]

A very optimistic outlook.

It could also be that Kawhi is as reported and doesn't want to play in Toronto. Until Kawai actually says something I see no reason to believe he has any desire to play for Toronto.

24 hours now and still not a word from the man......

 

[Pilky01]

He sounds dedicated.

 

[Skolman]

He sounds dedicated.

That was so 2 hours before he fell in love with the city