Rendez-Vous Lebreton Bid Fails

[JD1]

The timing of all this preceded the report by PWC. Right?

yes. the PWC report was commissioned long after the situation had fractured

 

[coladin]

Now 4 55 floor towers. They were at the time only approved for 3 towers. Waiting for city hall approval of the 4th tower. 574 feet. March 2016 waiting for approval

 

[coladin]

Approval to 590 feet, 59 and 55 floor towers and 50 floor tower as well in April 2016, 1,632 units

 

[coladin]

September 2018, removed a tower and units are down to 1242 units. 65, 56 and 27 stories. This might coincide with issues with Melnyk as it looks like they removed hundreds of unit, but not sure what the split is for rental/condos. I don't know if this was done to appease Melnyk

More changes in April 2018

ummary of Revisions:

• Building heights have been adjusted as follows:
• Tower 1 has increased in height from 55 to 65 storeys;
• Tower 2 has increased in height from 50 to 52 storeys;
• Tower 3 has decreased in height from 59 to 32 storeys with a larger floorplate for office on the first 15 storeys;
• The podium linking towers 1 and 3 has decreased in height from 10 storeys to 2 storeys;
• The podium for Tower 2 remains at three (3) storeys and now extends this three (3) storey form to the edge of the building, in proximity to the intersection of City Centre and Albert Street;
• The number of residential units has decreased from 1,632 to 1,232 units;
• The amount of retail GFA has increased from 10,864 square metres to 11,926 square metres;
• The amount of office GFA has increased from 17,442 square metres to 18,332 square metres;
• A hotel component has been added, with 150 guest rooms;
• The amount of residential amenity area has increased from 5,749 square metres to 7,226 square metres;
• The total number of parking spaces has been reduced from 1,183 spaces to 1,153 spaces;
• The parking layout has been revised. Previously five (5) levels of above-grade parking were proposed within the podium, and four (4) levels were proposed underground. The revised plans include seven (7) levels of underground parking and no parking within the podium;
• 749 bike parking spaces are being provided.
• The total gross floor area increased from 125,383 square metres to 129,716 square metres,;
• The south property line has been revised as follows:
• Pedestrian path maintained along south edge and enhanced with landscape treatment, interpretive panels, etc.
• Loading docks are located within the building, screened from view with overhead doors
• Glazing has been incorporated along residential service areas
• The number of surface parking spaces has been reduced from 20 spaces to 10 spaces;
• The driveway has been landscaped to read as a large plaza space, used occasionally as a vehicular driveway.

 

[coladin]

So Tower 1 would be:
Taller than the tallest in Montreal by 89 feet
Taller than the tallest in Vancouver by 103 feet
Taller than the tallest in Edmonton by 132 feet
Third tallest in Calgary (only 12 feet shorter than The Bow)

 

[JD1]

The problem for Melnyk is that the public opinion of him is so tarnished that anything he says now will come across as a whiny little loser trying to save face.

Plus, it doesn't help that he's a moron when he gets a public forum to speak to.


I've never had the highest opinion of Watson, but I've heard from multiple people that Melnyk is basically toast in the Ottawa business community. He's done so much harm to his own reputation that he's toxic now.

Plus, let's not forget that a huge reason why the Lebreton project died was because Melnyk was unable/unwilling to provide his part of the finances.

There's a reason why he negotiated himself out of the whole thing if he got a free rink.


In the end, I think everyone shares blame in dropping the ball. Who holds more blame is probably unknown, but it's just a monumental wasted opportunity.

I completely agree he's toast in the business community.

I think the finance piece comes down to unwilling. he may or may not have been able but it doesn't matter if you're not willing. I don't think the deal made sense from his POV. it may well have made sense from every other POV but not his

 

[JD1]

Let's just say that I can't help but be amused that our three most vocal proponents of "the biggest problem is the market" are doing what they can to smear Watson.

Watson was the third wheel, very little hinged on him. He says Melnyk was an issue and we are led to believe that Melnyk asked for a free arena.

Get out of here with this whole "he got better and didn't like the deal no more!", that is entirely besides the point. Melnyk tried to use his only leverage, the fact that he owns an NHL team, and overextended. Obviously everyone involved shares part of the blame, this was a partnership after all.

We have every reason to believe the hold up was Melnyk. It takes two to tango but everyone else seemed to be ready to spend except Melnyk. I don't see how I'm supposed to be angry at finding out that a politician is cutthroat and that that revelation is supposed to make me re-evaluate my position in terms of Melnyk asking for a free arena.

if you are referring to the 3 I believe you are ask yourself this: why do the guys that appear to be successful businessmen view this differently than I do?

 

[Qward]

Does it really matter if 900 Albert gets built first? I mean, they will all be bought up by foreign money launderers once it becomes harder for them to do so in Vancouver and Toronto.

 

[JD1]

Just so everyone is clear on timelines:

Article on 900 Albert from March 9, 2016 whereby the size and scope were not only known but now in the public eye. Trinity's 900 Albert Development: western gateway - West Side Action

Article from April 28, 2016, 2 months later, when the Rendezvous bid was won: Eugene Melnyk says LeBreton move 'solidifies' future of Sens

The idea that he somehow did not like the bid from the start when he was ill is clearly not demonstrated in his public comments well after 900 Albert's development plans were known. I would add that when they won the deal on that day he was fist pumping with Ruddy 2 seats over. Long after 900 albert's plans were in the public eye.

do your homework

you're making it too easy

you're publishing timelines that support what I am saying. look at the dates and connect the dots

 

[Take a Bath Son]

The project had changed in scope and size before Lebreton was awarded. The partnership was already falling apart, essentially over before anything started. The timelines I explained in great detail in the lawsuit thread

So then he said this on April 28:

“I think we’ll be very proud of this day five years from now. I know we’re going to deliver everything we said we would do. It’s going to change the landscape for the city and it will be a huge win all around.”

“We are now going to probably be in the top six as a market,” said Melnyk. “I haven’t met one person who says moving downtown isn’t a good idea.”

So was he lying on April 28 or was he lying in the lawsuit? Cause both comments/statements can't realistically coexist and be truthful without a tonne of spin.

 

[Qward]

So Tower 1 would be:
Taller than the tallest in Montreal by 89 feet
Taller than the tallest in Vancouver by 103 feet
Taller than the tallest in Edmonton by 132 feet
Third tallest in Calgary (only 12 feet shorter than The Bow)

This I found surprising since Calgary has been known for years to be a shorter scaled city and cell phone providers have always had issues because of that.

 

[Take a Bath Son]

do your homework

you're making it too easy

you're publishing timelines that support what I am saying. look at the dates and connect the dots

March 9 2016 900 albert project scope is clear.
April 28, 2016 Eugene is a giddy and happy camper.

Am I missing something? Feel free to clarify.

 

[coladin]

March 9 2016 900 albert project scope is clear.
April 28, 2016 Eugene is a giddy and happy camper.

Am I missing something? Feel free to clarify.

It was pr spin, as behind the scenes, according to the lawsuits, it was already done between Ruddy and Melnyk when they were awarded Lebreton. Everyone was spinning. Even the mayor. It was a gongshow almost from the inception of the partnership in October 2014.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

So then he said this on April 28:

“I think we’ll be very proud of this day five years from now. I know we’re going to deliver everything we said we would do. It’s going to change the landscape for the city and it will be a huge win all around.”

“We are now going to probably be in the top six as a market,” said Melnyk. “I haven’t met one person who says moving downtown isn’t a good idea.”

So was he lying on April 28 or was he lying in the lawsuit? Cause both comments/statements can't realistically coexist and be truthful without a tonne of spin.

This is hilarious considering the diarrhea that's been coming out of his mouth since.

 

[Micklebot]

if you are referring to the 3 I believe you are ask yourself this: why do the guys that appear to be successful businessmen view this differently than I do?

Lol, that quite the appeal to anonymous self reported internet authority...

No disrespect to them, but asking somebody to question their opinion because it doesn't aling with an authority whose expertize in the subject matter is completly unverifyable is some serious next level use of an appeal to authority fallacy

 

[Knave]

I'm far from a Watson fan but he played almost no role in this. This is a property developer looking to make money and an NHL owner who can't afford to be patient on returns and needs money upfront on the residential developments.

Most of the blame lies with Melnyk with Watson and Ruddy turning the screws. And as usual the three of them f*** the residents of the city by blowing up this deal and letting the NCC have a second chance to mess up LeBreton flats development.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It was pr spin, as behind the scenes, according to the lawsuits, it was already done between Ruddy and Melnyk when they were awarded Lebreton. Everyone was spinning. Even the mayor. It was a gongshow almost from the inception of the partnership in October 2014.

Ok so the problem was the partnership was doomed to fail at the onset?

What does Watson have anything to do with any of that? Watson represents the City of Ottawa and the City of Ottawa didn't have much to say or do with regards to the Lebreton development. Why bother trying to drag Watson in the mud? Because he called out Melnyk, someone everybody already hates and has no credibility?

Again, Melnyk thought he had enough leverage to get someone to build him an arena. He didn't and the whole thing fell apart. Is that only on Melnyk? No, of course not, it was a partnership so it never is only one party at fault.

However Melnyk, as far as we know, was still asking for a free arena. That part, to the best of my knowledge, was never disputed. Rudy doesn't have the lack of credibility Melnyk has and that allows Trinity to bark louder. That's how life works: nobody will go to bat for someone everybody hates.

 

[Pangu]

Can that neighbourhood handle the type of density that those buildings would bring?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I'm far from a Watson fan but he played almost no role in this. This is a property developer looking to make money and an NHL owner who can't afford to be patient on returns and needs money upfront on the residential developments.

Most of the blame lies with Melnyk with Watson and Ruddy turning the screws. And as usual the three of them **** the residents of the city by blowing up this deal and letting the NCC have a second chance to mess up LeBreton flats development.

I trust the NCC. It's a new breed of people over there after Harper and Baird being in charge, in a good way for once!

 

[foggyvisor]

That's what I got from the article, same as JDI. Watson is a slime ball, in our circles of business, he is a snake, a back door kind of guy. The exact opposite of dare I say it, Larry O'Brien. He has no clue what it's like to work with integrity and honesty. I can't wait until EM finally really loses it and airs out what Watson is all about.

Nothing wrong with a mayor who is not completely in the pocket of the "business community".

The "business community", historically and in the present, is way to chummy with the political elite.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Eugene Melnyk suing

December 2015, two 46 floor tower, 1 40 floor tower, and 34 floors. When the bid was submitted

... and when they found out that Melnyk was going to be an issue due to not wanting to pay for an arena, Trinity asked to be allowed to expand and the City granted the request.

 

[Knave]

Nothing wrong with a mayor who is not completely in the pocket of the "business community".

The "business community", historically and in the present, is way to chummy with the political elite.

Watson and the other winners on council had no problem approving the 65 story building. Watson was interested in scoring easy points against Melnyk because it's easy. When business wants something from Watson and they're not a controversial figure (like Melnyk), Watson has no problem getting on his knees.

 

[JD1]

March 9 2016 900 albert project scope is clear.
April 28, 2016 Eugene is a giddy and happy camper.

Am I missing something? Feel free to clarify.

the Sens participation in a potential Lebreton deal was confirmed in late 2014. the winner of that deal was announced in 2016. Melnyk spent most of 2015 out of commission. Effectively without the mental capacity to negotiate a deal of that magnitude when it was negotiated.

long after that bid was submitted came 900 albert announcement into the public eye.

then came lebreton announced as a winner.

sure he was all lollipops in public and saying the right things, but when it came to signing term sheets and negotiating it was a problem from the get go. it was a problem from day 1.

ask yourself why?

the most logical reason is he's taking too much risk and it was risk he didn't have the mental capacity to agree to in the first place.

at the end of the day, if it was a sure fire big time money maker from the get go, it'd be a done deal.

look at the Lansdowne oseg deal and how it was portrayed as being so successful there was an article in the citizen about it losing money and the planned revenue streams haven't materialized

 

[bert]

I completely agree he's toast in the business community.

I think the finance piece comes down to unwilling. he may or may not have been able but it doesn't matter if you're not willing. I don't think the deal made sense from his POV. it may well have made sense from every other POV but not his

How did it not make sense from his POV? Can you elaborate on why you think the owner would rather stay in Kanata and not downtown where both lines on the light rail meet? Other than obviously having no capital to contribute. Which doesnt mean its a bad deal for him it just means he isnt financially capable of completing what would be a very good deal for his hockey team in just about every way imaginable.

 

[bert]

the Sens participation in a potential Lebreton deal was confirmed in late 2014. the winner of that deal was announced in 2016. Melnyk spent most of 2015 out of commission. Effectively without the mental capacity to negotiate a deal of that magnitude when it was negotiated.

long after that bid was submitted came 900 albert announcement into the public eye.

then came lebreton announced as a winner.

sure he was all lollipops in public and saying the right things, but when it came to signing term sheets and negotiating it was a problem from the get go. it was a problem from day 1.

ask yourself why?

the most logical reason is he's taking too much risk and it was risk he didn't have the mental capacity to agree to in the first place.

at the end of the day, if it was a sure fire big time money maker from the get go, it'd be a done deal.

look at the Lansdowne oseg deal and how it was portrayed as being so successful there was an article in the citizen about it losing money and the planned revenue streams haven't materialized

Can you please prove the first bolded portion of this post. Why on earth would they award the bid to someone who doesnt have the mental capacity to negotiate the deal? Thats insane.

The second bolded portion id love to see some proof of this other than your opinion.

It so incredibly obvious he simply has no capital to complete his portion of the deal.

The 900 Albert cop out is just an excuse. Was he going to sue every single other person that is building close to the site?.... You cant control all the real estate in Ottawa because you dont want any competition... Why isnt he making a big deal about Claridge building right beside it.

He is obviously just using 900 Albert as an out, anyone that understands real estate knows that his argument is absolutely ridiculous.