Speculation: Renaud Lavoie: Toronto & Tampa in for Gudbranson

[Seras]

Gudbranson is lousy. I really hope most Leafs fans can see that

Yeah I mean what could the gms know it's not like they have our expertise to draw upon.

 

[Liferleafer]

Canucks finished 2nd last in the league in the 98-99 season, went down a spot in the lottery, picked third, traded a 1st and Bryan McCabe for 4th overall, traded the 4thOA plus two 3rds for 1st, then let the Thrashers pick first so that Burke didn't have to go up to the stage twice if they promised to take Patrik Stefan.

Yup, i just posted in another post that my facts were wrong....i was mixing up a couple of stories and thought it was the Sedin thing that was shady....i tgink it was actually something that happened on Toronto that had me confused.

 

[Liferleafer]

Yeah I mean what could the gms know it's not like they have our expertise to draw upon.

Ya, because God knows GMs never get it wrong....

 

[bossram]

Leafs opinions are like stray cats...people will feed them once in a while but no one wants them....

Leafs make the playoffs and now fans are an authority on hl talent.

Gudbranson is playing 20 minutes a night and is coming off injury. He has been the Canucks best d man over the last few games.

The leafs won the lottery pick...beyond Matthews and Marner I would take any garbage from your team anyway.

My dude. I am a Canucks fan. But please take off the rose-colored glasses.

Gudbranson is not good. Last game he collected a goal, but looked awful otherwise. One play I vividly remember, which encapsulates the Gudbranson experience: Puck is dumped, he uses his size/reach to get to the puck first and establish body position. Then once he has a second to move the puck, he throws a terrible giveaway right up the middle to a Columbus player. Every time it seemed the Canucks were facing a barrage of shots in their own zone, I look and notice it's the Gudbranson/MDZ pairing.

He's just nowhere near good enough with the puck to play him as anything more than a 6D.

If the Leafs and TB want to send us assets for Guddy, then my all means, please allow them to.

 

[nobody]

Not every player playing on a 3rd pairing is =. Gudbranson isn't great but he's better than Polak rather easily IMO.

Right. Except I don't want Polak there or Gudbranson. I want both guys not on the Leafs. I know we're not going to see Polak go anywhere, which is why I don't want to see yet another 3rd pairing guy in the mix.

Travis Dermott has been very good this year and Connor Carrick had also been decent. Neither of those guys are expected to be in the top 4 when Zaitsev gets back and Borgman is essentially a lock on that 3rd pair. We're going to have a lot jam of Dman which is going to take away from ice time and experience that the young kids could and should be getting.

You're not rebuilding, you are going into the playoffs for the second year in a row and want to improve on what you did last year. Gudbranson isn't an awesome defenseman but he gives you a guy who can break down the cycle on the wall down low and pin guys along the boards, and win the battles for the puck. He's built for that type of game, which the playoffs are all about. You also need more than 7d going in.

Putting a rookie or a guy who is really green in that spot and expecting good results is not the ideal thing to do. It's also not beneficial to have the same types of defenseman either. You need guys who can do different things. Again guddy isn't amazing and won't provide much offense but it makes sense to acquire a guy like this if the price is right.

But, what is the right price? If the Leafs offered a 3rd+Nielson (as reported) and Benning turned it down, then i hope Lou is done with it. I don't want to pay much more for a bottom pair guy.

Like LiferLeafer said, if the price is right, I don't mind bringing in Gudbranson. But for the cost of less playing time for Dermott and overpaying in assets to acquire Gudbranson he's not worth it.

Secondly, the Leafs aren't Cup contenders. We don't want to simply be playoff contenders. We're due for hopefully one more influx of young kids next season when the likes of Kapanen/ Goat/ Sosh/ Johnsson/ Leivo/ Dermott are overripe and ready to make a full time push. I'm all on board for making a push in the playoffs and making some noise but not at the cost of the futures. Leafs management so far has had the same mentality.

Our future D looks pretty good and yes we can use a couple of pieces here and there but those pieces are the likes of doughty/ OEL, McDonagh. Not Gudbranson.

Rielly - Good 2 way top pairing RHD pref (Hainsey short term)
Dermott - Zaitsev
Borgman - Liljegren
Rosen/ Holl

 

[Liferleafer]

My dude. I am a Canucks fan. But please take off the rose-colored glasses.

Gudbranson is not good. Last game he collected a goal, but looked awful otherwise. One play I vividly remember, which encapsulates the Gudbranson experience: Puck is dumped, he uses his size/reach to get to the puck first and establish body position. Then once he has a second to move the puck, he throws a terrible giveaway right up the middle to a Columbus player. Every time it seemed the Canucks were facing a barrage of shots in their own zone, I look and notice it's the Gudbranson/MDZ pairing.

He's just nowhere near good enough with the puck to play him as anything more than a 6D.

If the Leafs and TB want to send us assets for Guddy, then my all means, please allow them to.

Shades of the Polak whoever pairing....and pretty much every Gardiner shift for the last month...

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Well, I watch most Leafs games as well but I certainly am no scouting authority on an NHL player. But most Leafs fan seem to think their opinions are facts.

I know my opinions aren't facts, but I do my best to call it like I see it. I think Vancouver has some good players but Gudbranson isn't one of them

 

[Red Piller]

I know my opinions aren't facts, but I do my best to call it like I see it. I think Vancouver has some good players but Gudbranson isn't one of them

Agreed. I don't think many people will say Gudbranson is the ideal target at all. He has a ton of warts. But he does bring an element that can be valuable in the playoffs. But yeah I get where you guys are coming from 100 percent. Hes slow and not very efficient with the puck, actually its more like a grenade when he gets it. Basically he would be able to offer some pushback on the bigger forwards youll face and that's about it.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Agreed. I don't think many people will say Gudbranson is the ideal target at all. He has a ton of warts. But he does bring an element that can be valuable in the playoffs. But yeah I get where you guys are coming from 100 percent. Hes slow and not very efficient with the puck, actually its more like a grenade when he gets it. Basically he would be able to offer some pushback on the bigger forwards youll face and that's about it.

Yup. I'd love to get Tanev though

 

[nobody]

Agreed. I don't think many people will say Gudbranson is the ideal target at all. He has a ton of warts. But he does bring an element that can be valuable in the playoffs. But yeah I get where you guys are coming from 100 percent. Hes slow and not very efficient with the puck, actually its more like a grenade when he gets it. Basically he would be able to offer some pushback on the bigger forwards youll face and that's about it.

You just described Polak. Excpt Polak isnt slow. But holy f***, can the man ever ice the puck for no damn reason. He's allergic to the puck.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Minus Matthews you would still be at the bottom of the league before you won the lottery pick.

Auston Matthews is a Toronto Maple Leaf.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Yup. I'd love to get Tanev though

What do you think a plausible trade for him looks like?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What do you think a plausible trade for him looks like?

I don't know if there's one to be made. He's more valuable than Kapanen but less value than Nylander, and we don't really have an asset in between that would be worthwhile for both sides

 

[Liferleafer]

I don't know if there's one to be made. He's more valuable than Kapanen but less value than Nylander, and we don't really have an asset in between that would be worthwhile for both sides

I would add our 1st to Kapanen...Nucks fans want Liljgren though....which i would pass on.

 

[RandV]

Is Gudbranson actually 'slow'? I've barely watched the Canucks for the past few seasons, and don't really notice these things anyways, but I'm just thinking a guy wouldn't be a 3rd overall draft pick if he didn't have a good toolset. I've been going with the assumption that his problems are more hockey IQ and that for all his supposed size and physicality he's actually been pretty soft with the Canucks.

 

[Red Piller]

You just described Polak. Excpt Polak isnt slow. But holy ****, can the man ever ice the puck for no damn reason. He's allergic to the puck.

So just to go back in time a few years ago, Roman Polak and Nick Spalling got 2 2nds and you had to take a player back, so I think its fair to say Gudbranson could fetch a 2nd rounder under the right circumstances.

Is Gudbranson actually 'slow'? I've barely watched the Canucks for the past few seasons, and don't really notice these things anyways, but I'm just thinking a guy wouldn't be a 3rd overall draft pick if he didn't have a good toolset. I've been going with the assumption that his problems are more hockey IQ and that for all his supposed size and physicality he's actually been pretty soft with the Canucks.

Well, hes not a burner haha. I think hes pretty slow in todays NHL yeah. He had a decent game lastnight physicality wise too. He threw a few pretty good hits and was engaged, but his outlet passes leave something to be desired.

 

[nobody]

So just to go back in time a few years ago, Roman Polak and Nick Spalling got 2 2nds and you had to take a player back, so I think its fair to say Gudbranson could fetch a 2nd rounder under the right circumstances.

Sharks were stupid to pay that price, but they were cup contenders going all in. I'm sure if the Nucks can find a desperate enough team, they can make Gudbranson deal worth their while. I wouldn't bank on that team being the Leafs though.

On the other hand, I would give away Polak for free right now if I was the GM.

#playthekids

 

[VasilyHoglander]

So just to go back in time a few years ago, Roman Polak and Nick Spalling got 2 2nds and you had to take a player back, so I think its fair to say Gudbranson could fetch a 2nd rounder under the right circumstances.



Well, hes not a burner haha. I think hes pretty slow in todays NHL yeah. He had a decent game lastnight physicality wise too. He threw a few pretty good hits and was engaged, but his outlet passes leave something to be desired.

Gudbranson is not slow. he actually has good footwork for such a big guy.

 

[ottawa]

Most Leafs fans aren't interested because he's on Polak's level. Most Leafs fans aren't interested because he would be playing Polak minutes. We don't like Polak playing Polak minutes, why in the world would we want another guy in the mix who could potentially get overused and overexposed by Babs.

You don't know what you are talking about, which is fine, but when you attribute your ignorance to "most Leaf fans" you do a disservice to the Leaf fans that populate these boards that actually are aware of the abilities and qualities of players that wear uniforms that don't have a Maple Leaf on the front.

 

[biturbo19]

Toronto makes more sense to me as a "fit". He'd be a rich man's Polak for them, and brings those same sort of elements (which Babcock obviously wants in his lineup), but at a noticeably higher level. Which seems a plenty worthwhile upgrade. Tough to find the right fit in terms of value pieces coming the other way though. There's a bit of a void between the guys Leaf fans already have penciled in to the future core, and the "nobody" prospects.

But Tampa potentially being in the mix for Gudbranson is really appealing. They have a huge stash of exactly the sort of pieces that a Gudbranson deal would likely be built around, and could afford to spend a bit in that currency. Their drafting has been churning out a boatload of those second wave lower upside "B" prospects i'd expect to be packaged for a guy like Gudbranson. I count a dozen+ guys that would potentially make sense in the right combinations.

 

[rimshot]

So just to go back in time a few years ago, Roman Polak and Nick Spalling got 2 2nds and you had to take a player back, so I think its fair to say Gudbranson could fetch a 2nd rounder under the right circumstances.



Well, hes not a burner haha. I think hes pretty slow in todays NHL yeah. He had a decent game lastnight physicality wise too. He threw a few pretty good hits and was engaged, but his outlet passes leave something to be desired.

The only reason Polak plays is because of his penalty-killing skills. If Gudbranson moves to the Leafs he takes Polak's spot in the lineup and therefore his role as top 3 penalty killing Dman. Gud will have to be as good as, or better, on the PK. I have no idea about Guddy's PK skills. How well does he perform on the PK?

 

[FerrisRox]

The only reason Polak plays is because of his penalty-killing skills.

His penalty killing skills? Then how come the Leafs penalty kill with or without him is virtually identical? What skills?

 

[Liferleafer]

His penalty killing skills? Then how come the Leafs penalty kill with or without him is virtually identical? What skills?

Easy...because Polak being good at anything related to hockey is a fallacy....well, except icings.....he's really very good at icings.

 

[maplejays62]

Give him to Tampa, Leafs don't want him