Reimer's salary arbitration case

[ACC1224]

I cited examples, you did not. I have a much better idea than you do. If you can cite examples of Reimer liking Cartyle and vice versa, I am listening.

I saw him smile in an Interview when someone mentioned Carlyles name after another loss.
If that's not love I don't know what is.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Stephen said it best (maybe in this thread - or in a different one) most great teams have two goalies capable of being #1s. (and ideally you want the depth to trade one, and move one up). Unless you are like "THE GUY" (Lundy, Brodeur in his prime etc). nothing should be guaranteed.

Reimer and Bernier fought it out, Reimer lost and it's everyone else's fault but Reimer's apparently. Whatever.

This year is a new year, but let's be honest, Bernier was always going to be the #1 under Carlyle last year.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I cited examples, you did not. I have a much better idea than you do. If you can cite examples of Reimer liking Cartyle and vice versa, I am listening.

it shouldn't matter if Randy liked him or didn't like him. Jame McClellan who has played under Sutter, and Hitchcock, notable hard-nose coaches, say there were players who LOATHED them (and again - everyone knows how everyone couldn't stand Bowman). and it doens't matter if they are a 'good' coach or Carlyle - Jamie said, that in those instances, you play for your teammates (and ultimately yourself because you're ALWAYS playing for a job somewhere).

 

[Swervin81]

Is Harding good to go for the 2014-2015 season? I can't remember.

I would love Backstrom here as a backup or #1b goaltender to push Bernier. He can flatout dominate at times. If Minny can retain 500-750k or so to make his salary around 3M, I would definitely consider a Reimer for Backstrom and a pick swap.

Heck, make the deal bigger and include Franson to see what you can get.

Hell no to Backstrom. At least when glass breaks in my house, there's a reason for it. He's broken and not what he once was.

Btw, it looks highly unlikely Josh Harding will ever play another game again, let alone be good to go next season. It's extremely saddening, but it is what it is. That means the Wild will just run with with Kuemper and Backstrom, and another guy to be insurance for when Backstrom gets hurt (Bryz?). I can see a fit for Reimer backing up Kuemper in Minnesota, but acquiring Backstrom means we need to live with his ugly cap hit and have a 3rd stringer capable of regular backup duties. Is MacIntyre that guy? I dunno...

 

[The Winter Soldier]

it shouldn't matter if Randy liked him or didn't like him. Jame McClellan who has played under Sutter, and Hitchcock, notable hard-nose coaches, say there were players who LOATHED them (and again - everyone knows how everyone couldn't stand Bowman). and it doens't matter if they are a 'good' coach or Carlyle - Jamie said, that in those instances, you play for your teammates (and ultimately yourself because you're ALWAYS playing for a job somewhere).

I'd like to see Reimer and Bernier fight it out this preseason, and let the best goalie win. This is fair and how good organizations operate.

Bernier never has played a 65 to 70 game season as a proven #1. The goaltending debate is still open to me.

 

[rrc1967]

I'd like to see Reimer and Bernier fight it out this preseason, and let the best goalie win. This is fair and how good organizations operate.

Bernier never has played a 65 to 70 game season as a proven #1. The goaltending debate is still open to me.

Alot of goaltenders flame out quickly. it's certainly open for debate, especially if he does end up having re-occurring groin issues.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Alot of goaltenders flame out quickly. it's certainly open for debate, especially if he does end up having re-occurring groin issues.

Can Bernier play 65-70 games as a number 1? He has the ability, he is a good prospect, and I use the word prospect because he wasa number 2 behind Quick his career.

These are legit questions. Don't count your eggs too soon, and I say this as a Bernier fan.

 

[Daisy Jane]

This year is a new year, but let's be honest, Bernier was always going to be the #1 under Carlyle last year.

that's moot. everyone keeps saying this

Reimer got all the hard starts - people were like "this isn't fair because Bernier gets the easier ones" (where one could argue, being the starter one would imagine you'd have to face the harder teams/get difficult starts)

Both Reimer and Bernier dropped the ball several times during the season during the 1A/1B stint.

Reimer was given the chance to take it up again in december. and i always always bring this up: The Florida game the Leafs (Not Reimer) was BRUTAL. Reimer calls out the team, saying no excuses we can't use xyz, we need to come out and play. His words.

SINCE THAT GAME - Reimer played vs. Phoenix and HE was shaky, and then played vs. Detroit and HE was BRUTAL. Bernier from that point on had the ball and ran with it. From that point on, regardless if it was ALWAYS going to be Bernier or not- Reimer's play didn't give anyone to argue that he should be given the ball again. Had Reimer played well vs. Phoenix, and won the Detroit game - Reimer gets the Classic. (why? because Reimer had the season opener and the Home Opener. everyone in fandom and Media acknowledged that playing Detroit Dec. 21st was an indication of the Classic and moving forward).


that's on REIMER.
and since December 21st. - the last game he won as a Saturday was the January game in Colorado. So if Carlyle didn't trust him, I don't blame him - because BOTH Reimer/Bernier until that hot streak were shakey, and Bernier took the ball and ran with it. Reimer wants the ball back and go home.

And im not anointing Bernier with anything and I don't think Shanahan (even naming Bernier as his #1) actually is (they want to put pressure underneath him etc).

but again - three management heads with different mindsets look at Reimer - and don't think he's the guy.so it doens't matter what he's capable of or what he DID. they still don't see it in him.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Hell no to Backstrom. At least when glass breaks in my house, there's a reason for it. He's broken and not what he once was.

Btw, it looks highly unlikely Josh Harding will ever play another game again, let alone be good to go next season. It's extremely saddening, but it is what it is. That means the Wild will just run with with Kuemper and Backstrom, and another guy to be insurance for when Backstrom gets hurt (Bryz?). I can see a fit for Reimer backing up Kuemper in Minnesota, but acquiring Backstrom means we need to live with his ugly cap hit and have a 3rd stringer capable of regular backup duties. Is MacIntyre that guy? I dunno...

MacIntyre is gone, hon.

 

[rrc1967]

To be honest, I would rather seen Riemer traded and someone else brought in.

but for none of the reasons that most "experts" in here have suggested.

It's hard on the defense when decisions are made in split seconds to handle two goaltenders that play drastically differing styles. it's much saner if the two play the same way. Easier on the players, the coaches and really the team strategy, practices, you name it.

I've also never considered Reimer EVER as a strong #1 on this team - however some of the opinions and "analysis" on him is downright shameful.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

that's moot. everyone keeps saying this

Reimer got all the hard starts - people were like "this isn't fair because Bernier gets the easier ones" (where one could argue, being the starter one would imagine you'd have to face the harder teams/get difficult starts)

Both Reimer and Bernier dropped the ball several times during the season during the 1A/1B stint.

Reimer was given the chance to take it up again in december. and i always always bring this up: The Florida game the Leafs (Not Reimer) was BRUTAL. Reimer calls out the team, saying no excuses we can't use xyz, we need to come out and play. His words.

SINCE THAT GAME - Reimer played vs. Phoenix and HE was shaky, and then played vs. Detroit and HE was BRUTAL. Bernier from that point on had the ball and ran with it. From that point on, regardless if it was ALWAYS going to be Bernier or not- Reimer's play didn't give anyone to argue that he should be given the ball again. Had Reimer played well vs. Phoenix, and won the Detroit game - Reimer gets the Classic. (why? because Reimer had the season opener and the Home Opener. everyone in fandom and Media acknowledged that playing Detroit Dec. 21st was an indication of the Classic and moving forward).


that's on REIMER.
and since December 21st. - the last game he won as a Saturday was the January game in Colorado. So if Carlyle didn't trust him, I don't blame him - because BOTH Reimer/Bernier until that hot streak were shakey, and Bernier took the ball and ran with it. Reimer wants the ball back and go home.

And im not anointing Bernier with anything and I don't think Shanahan (even naming Bernier as his #1) actually is (they want to put pressure underneath him etc).

but again - three management heads with different mindsets look at Reimer - and don't think he's the guy.so it doens't matter what he's capable of or what he DID. they still don't see it in him.

Bernier stumbled down the stretch too, if you are consistent that's on Bernier also. If either is not allowed any excuses.

 

[-DeMo-]

I'd like to see Reimer and Bernier fight it out this preseason, and let the best goalie win. This is fair and how good organizations operate.

Bernier never has played a 65 to 70 game season as a proven #1. The goaltending debate is still open to me.

I agree with you that Bernier shouldn't just be given the top role either but Bernier should start as a number 1 and Reimer should get more starts then a normal backup until Bernier shows he's a true #1. one good year doesn't make anyone a #1 goalie, you need to back it up. but I don't agree with you that they should battle it out in pre-season for the #1 job, 3-4 pre-season games shouldn't determine the #1 goalie going into the season, over 82 games last year Bernier proved he was better and therefore should start the year as the #1. however if he faulters a bit Reimer should be given a chance to get back into the battle.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

What proof do you have that Reimer and Carlyle are best buddies? You can assume anything you want.

We know Randy's comments on Reimer, we know Reimer has requested a trade, we even know Reimer who is the kindest guy out there show up Carlyle when he was pulled. Good enough evidence for some.

Uh...how did we go from him saying you don't have evidence of them having a really poor relationship, to you spouting off about him claiming Carlyle and Reimer are "best buddies"? Someone disagree's with your claim so you essentially put words into their mouth?

I saw him smile in an Interview when someone mentioned Carlyles name after another loss.
If that's not love I don't know what is.

Only things that support one point of view count as evidence.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I agree with you that Bernier shouldn't just be given the top role either but Bernier should start as a number 1 and Reimer should get more starts then a normal backup until Bernier shows he's a true #1. one good year doesn't make anyone a #1 goalie, you need to back it up. but I don't agree with you that they should battle it out in pre-season for the #1 job, 3-4 pre-season games shouldn't determine the #1 goalie going into the season, over 82 games last year Bernier proved he was better and therefore should start the year as the #1. however if he faulters a bit Reimer should be given a chance to get back into the battle.

I think Reimer and Bernier should fight it out this year, if Reimer wins, then we should trade Bernier before he gets a big pay raise. Bernier should get back a 2nd or 1st rd pick, perhaps a player.

Both are unproven #1's.

 

[rrc1967]

Bernier stumbled down the stretch too, if you are consistent that's on Bernier also. If either is not allowed any excuses.

both dropped the ball at varying stages of the year.

Bernier went thorugh a series of games in november / december where he couldn't win to save his life, however was still getting the majority of the starts regardless. he went 3-7-4 (I think?), meanwhile reimer went 4-3-1 (and pulled in one) in his games during the same stretch.

To be honest, i think there is where it started to mess with Reimer's head a bit - as it would just about anyone.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

both dropped the ball at varying stages of the year.

Bernier went thorugh a series of games in november / december where he couldn't win to save his life, however was still getting the majority of the starts regardless. he went 3-7-4 (I think?), meanwhile reimer went 4-3-1 (and pulled in one) in his games during the same stretch.

To be honest, i think there is where it started to mess with Reimer's head a bit - as it would just about anyone.

Now we are getting somewhere, both dropped the ball. People giving Bernier the crown based on last year, is a leap IMO.

 

[zeke]

something might be said about Reimer hurting his numbers by playing through injury, while bernier...didn't.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Bernier stumbled down the stretch too, if you are consistent that's on Bernier also. If either is not allowed any excuses.

of course he did. I didn't say he didn't. After the Olympic break Bernier did not look good. I've said that. Bernier admitted that himself. And if Bernier was the one who couldn't get the team when we had 80 points, and the # was set at 6 to clinch and failed to even get ONE point to overtime - i would find examples of why that was not. good.

I'm not even using his injuries as a crutch. (heh). which in my opinion - if you are injured - do not play. I don't know who cleared him to play (thus creating a sports hernia or however that develops) but that's on him, and I didn't like it - which i've stated.

I have also said - like Jamie McClellan that Bernier needs to find his starter legs. I've mentioned constantly - that I'd too like to see how he plays 60-65 games (I don't know if the magic number is 65 boom you're a starter - but I'd like to see him play more starter stretches (ie - 7-8 in a row, x in y nights etc) Bernier admitted several times that it as different transitioning to a starter from a backup (and - before people jump on me - i did give credence that it would be hard going from a starter to a backup in re: to Reimer).

He's the #1 FOR. NOW.

I personally would like a backup who mentally sees himself as a backup. Reimer does not want to. I've stated several times why it's not just "him wanting to be a starter." if the argument has constantly been "he needs more starts, he needs confidence, he needs This, He Needs That, he Needs whatever." then if Bernier needs to be playing 65+ games, and Reimer needs more starts in a row to play better, then the Leafs clearly, and obviously needs to petition for more games, because there's not enough in my estimation.

I would like a back up goalie who can push Bernier and take over - without needing to play 'constantly' like reimer 'needs' to (going by commentary here). I'd like Reimer to go away and get the playing time he needs to potentially to be the #1. that's NOT going to be here.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I like Reimer..I think he is a good team player. He was given a fair shot to win the starting role, IMO...he didn't outplay Bernier for the starters role. No chance.

Whats the problem? These guys are professionals and have been competing for playing time their entire careers. If Reimer feels entitled to something (I dont know that for fact) then, they have no choice but to trade him.

He is a very decent backup goalie, IMO. They should give him a 2-3 year deal for whatever a good backup goalie makes...2.0M per?

 

[rrc1967]

something might be said about Reimer hurting his numbers by playing through injury, while bernier...didn't.

lol.

bernier posted a 1-3-0 record with a .897 save percentage and a 3.38 goals against when he came back post groin injury.

may i have what you are smoking?

 

[rrc1967]

I like Reimer..I think he is a good team player. He was given a fair shot to win the starting role, IMO...he didn't outplay Bernier for the starters role. No chance.

Whats the problem? These guys are professionals and have been competing for playing time their entire careers. If Reimer feels entitled to something (I dont know that for fact) then, they have no choice but to trade him.

He is a very decent backup goalie, IMO. They should give him a 2-3 year deal for whatever a good backup goalie makes...2.0M per?

personally i think it's more St Croix working with him in the mental side of getting limited starts and keeping your abilities and capability focused, and a good line of communication between the coaches and both goaltenders.

I got the sense that caryle never talked to either goaltender all that much.

which IMO seems like bad management to me.

mentally I think anyone can imagine it's easier to deal with being a backup or starter, or a backup pushing a starter if you know that is your role from day one, versus switching magically for no apparent reason 1.5 months into the season.


but i would rather seem him traded and a goaltender brought in with a similar style to Bernier - if they are going to run with him a bit.

would make life easier all around.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

of course he did. I didn't say he didn't. After the Olympic break Bernier did not look good. I've said that. Bernier admitted that himself. And if Bernier was the one who couldn't get the team when we had 80 points, and the # was set at 6 to clinch and failed to even get ONE point to overtime - i would find examples of why that was not. good.

I'm not even using his injuries as a crutch. (heh). which in my opinion - if you are injured - do not play. I don't know who cleared him to play (thus creating a sports hernia or however that develops) but that's on him, and I didn't like it - which i've stated.

I have also said - like Jamie McClellan that Bernier needs to find his starter legs. I've mentioned constantly - that I'd too like to see how he plays 60-65 games (I don't know if the magic number is 65 boom you're a starter - but I'd like to see him play more starter stretches (ie - 7-8 in a row, x in y nights etc) Bernier admitted several times that it as different transitioning to a starter from a backup (and - before people jump on me - i did give credence that it would be hard going from a starter to a backup in re: to Reimer).

He's the #1 FOR. NOW.

I personally would like a backup who mentally sees himself as a backup. Reimer does not want to. I've stated several times why it's not just "him wanting to be a starter." if the argument has constantly been "he needs more starts, he needs confidence, he needs This, He Needs That, he Needs whatever." then if Bernier needs to be playing 65+ games, and Reimer needs more starts in a row to play better, then the Leafs clearly, and obviously needs to petition for more games, because there's not enough in my estimation.

I would like a back up goalie who can push Bernier and take over - without needing to play 'constantly' like reimer 'needs' to (going by commentary here). I'd like Reimer to go away and get the playing time he needs to potentially to be the #1. that's NOT going to be here.

Bernier is only #1 because of Carlyle's dislike or lack of confidence in Reimer. I recall when Carlyle went with Bernier over Reimer, and it was only because of one bad game from Reimer.

Doubt if Bernier has a bad game, he would be dropped like Reimer was. Reimer when he was healthy, had 2 great stints with us, it is funny people seem to forget this for a Goalie (Bernier) that failed down the stretch.

Both are unproven, and neither should be defacto #1G's heading into the preseaso based on one failed season.

Reimer is just a more convenient scapegoat for the 26th GA team in the NHL.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Bernier is only #1 because of Carlyle's dislike or lack of confidence in Reimer. I recall when Carlyle went with Bernier over Reimer, and it was only because of one bad game from Reimer.

Doubt if Bernier has a bad game, he would be dropped like Reimer was. Reimer when he was healthy, had 2 great stints with us, it is funny people seem to forget this for a Goalie (Bernier) that failed down the stretch.

Both are unproven, and neither should be defacto #1G's heading into the preseaso based on one failed season.

Reimer is just a more convenient scapegoat for the 26th GA team in the NHL.

Just stop man.....you are being somewhat thick.

Bernier had the 8th Best SV% in hockey while facing the 7th most shots in the entire league. Its probably the most important stat for a goalie..moreso than GAA and Wins and Losses which are more team stats...

Neither goalie is responsible for the 26th best GAA in hockey. That falls on the team and the horrible defensive systems they employ and cannot execute...

Saying that Bernier didn't prove that he is the #1 goalie is just being blind. What is it with you. You are like a starving dog with a bone. Give it up. I like Reimer well enough and think the Leafs should keep him...but really you take things too far man.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Bernier is only #1 because of Carlyle's dislike or lack of confidence in Reimer. I recall when Carlyle went with Bernier over Reimer, and it was only because of one bad game from Reimer.

Doubt if Bernier has a bad game, he would be dropped like Reimer was. Reimer when he was healthy, had 2 great stints with us, it is funny people seem to forget this for a Goalie (Bernier) that failed down the stretch.

Both are unproven, and neither should be defacto #1G's heading into the preseaso based on one failed season.

Reimer is just a more convenient scapegoat for the 26th GA team in the NHL.

to which I will say again

Brian Burke (to whom you've admitted that you miss) was actively trying to get Luongo. Saying by actions: Reimer is not the guy to be the #1 starter in Toronto.

Dave Nonis worked for eleven months to get Bernier (who has stated he wanted to be a Starter), and when that didn't work, tried to get Kiprusoff (HARD), and then still got Bernier, says by actions that he's not 100 percent sure that Reimer is the guy moving forward.

Brendan Shanahan - the guy tasked to right the ship - so has been through the player exit interviews, had one on one interviews with almost everyone on the team (so I'd imagine Reimer would have been one of them), in one of his few media apperaances has constantly stated that he wants Brodeur here, and he sees Bernier as a number 1. (not - he's NAMING Him. just sees him). Basically stating: Reimer isn't in our long term plans. (and this is coming from a long term thinker)

clearly indicating - while Bernier needs to prove (and they want to get him support) - Reimer is not the guy for the Leafs. in THREE. SEPARATE. REGIMES, this has been evidenced. this is clearly not just Fans being Cranky - the Leafs management has stated it in their actions for the past 4-5 years regarding him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just stop man.....you are being somewhat thick.

Bernier had the 8th Best SV% in hockey while facing the 7th most shots in the entire league. Its probably the most important stat for a goalie..moreso than GAA and Wins and Losses which are more team stats...

Neither goalie is responsible for the 26th best GAA in hockey. That falls on the team and the horrible defensive systems they employ and cannot execute...

Saying that Bernier didn't prove that he is the #1 goalie is just being blind. What is it with you. You are like a starving dog with a bone. Give it up. I like Reimer well enough and think the Leafs should keep him...but really you take things too far man.

Reimer had the 8th best save % in the 12-13 season and we made the playoffs, BTW Bernier was 12th behind Reimer playing for a stronger defensive LA team.

Both goalies are not in a position to claim they are #1G's next year based on both failing last year, the sample is too small. I find the Reimer is crap notion based on a season he was hurt and Carlyle undermining him far too convenient here.