Reid Boucher

[JimEIV]

I could live with that.

But of course, if he has a great camp and preseason....then I'm all for running with it.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Anyone trying to apply a one size fits all opinion on prospect development is missing the mark.

For every Gustav Nyquist (3+ years in AHL) there's a Travis Zajac (no time in AHL). And then a guy like Parise or Henrique (one year in AHL, good but didn't light world on fire) . And then a guy like Gionta (minimal time in the AHL).

You need to go on a case by case basis, depending on the mental and physical maturity of the player as well as the needs of the team at the time.

I think it would be ideal for Boucher to get some more time in the AHL next season, but I wouldn't be opposed to him starting in the NHL due to his physical maturity and overall tenacity.

 

[NC107*]

I want him to get a shot too, next year as well.

What I like to see happen is him have a good playoff, and he seems to be on his way, start next season in Albany and reevaluate after 20 games...I'd much rather it happen that way than him start in NJ and get sent down after 20 games. I think it is better for him to earn his way up than play his way down for his confidence and overall development.

Let him get into the swing of the season in the AHL and hopefully put up even more dominating numbers and see a lot of situations in October into November and then get the call.

Jim while I like the strategy, I think there is a problem with it. Allowing Boucher to get 20 games under his belt to get his wheels set before giving him a shot on the big team make so much sense, however who does he replace? What happens to them? Do the Devils lose 20 game waiting on Boucher? Do we start with less than a 23 man squad, if that's the number?

 

[MichaelJ]

Jim while I like the strategy, I think there is a problem with it. Allowing Boucher to get 20 games under his belt to get his wheels set before giving him a shot on the big team make so much sense, however who does he replace? What happens to them? Do the Devils lose 20 game waiting on Boucher? Do we start with less than a 23 man squad, if that's the number?

Clowe, once he has his season-ending injury.

 

[MichaelJ]

But of course, if he has a great camp and preseason....then I'm all for running with it.

That's what I'm hoping, that he forces the team's hand.

 

[JimEIV]

Anyone trying to apply a one size fits all opinion on prospect development is missing the mark.

For every Gustav Nyquist (3+ years in AHL) there's a Travis Zajac (no time in AHL). And then a guy like Parise or Henrique (one year in AHL, good but didn't light world on fire) . And then a guy like Gionta (minimal time in the AHL).

You need to go on a case by case basis, depending on the mental and physical maturity of the player as well as the needs of the team at the time.

I think it would be ideal for Boucher to get some more time in the AHL next season, but I wouldn't be opposed to him starting in the NHL due to his physical maturity and overall tenacity.

You might tell that to just about every GM that believes in a 3 year process. It is a very common philosophy in the NHL.


A high draft pick shouldn't need the grooming a lower one does.

A 4 year college player is going to be more mature than a 19 year old straight out of junior. A college player has been playing against 25 year olds in the NCAA on a regular basis.

NCAA players are going to be older and need less time in the AHL in general.

Zach Parise was 22 years old his rookie year - 2 years NCAA 1 year AHL.
Travis Zajac was 21 years old his rookie season 2 years NCAA and a special circumstances with Scott Gomez creating a vacancy at center.
Brian Gionta was 23 years old his rookie season 4 years NCAA and 1/2 year in the AHL. Spent a good 2&1/2 seasons on the 4th and 3rd lines before becoming a top 6 player.

Those development paths are ALL very similar and very measurable to their position in the draft.

 

[NC107*]

Clowe, once he has his season-ending injury.

Was this a joke?

 

[Devils731]

Zach Parise was 22 years old his rookie year - 2 years NCAA 1 year AHL.
Travis Zajac was 21 years old his rookie season 2 years NCAA and a special circumstances with Scott Gomez creating a vacancy at center.
Brian Gionta was 23 years old his rookie season 4 years NCAA and 1/2 year in the AHL. Spent a good 2&1/2 seasons on the 4th and 3rd lines before becoming a top 6 player.

When we are debating whether Boucher needs no more time to 1 year more time in the AHL, don't those players having a 2 year range mean they were markedly different? The difference between Zajac's age and Gionta's age is twice as long as the timeframe being discussed.

It also appears to me all those players were judged based on their own merit, and not off a set path of development.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

the problem is Boucher is never going to get a consistent shot playing with talented players as long as Pete is here IMO.

 

[JimEIV]

When we are debating whether Boucher needs no more time to 1 year more time in the AHL, don't those players having a 2 year range mean they were markedly different? The difference between Zajac's age and Gionta's age is twice as long as the timeframe being discussed.

It also appears to me all those players were judged based on their own merit, and not off a set path of development.

Set Path vs individual development/merit? That is nothing more than a game of semantics.

Look at the history of most players, they take time. And that amount of time often correlates loosely to their draft position.

Only the very best step into the NHL <20 years, most of the time those players that do step right in are known to have been elite prospects even before they were drafted.

 

[Missionhockey]

the problem is Boucher is never going to get a consistent shot playing with talented players as long as Pete is here IMO.

Should we tell that to Henrique who was put on the first line a month into his rookie season?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Should we tell that to Henrique who was put on the first line a month into his rookie season?

I am of the belief that Henrique succeeded despite Pete, not because of him. Remember, they sent him down to start the year and only got recalled because Jake got injured early on.

look at how everyone else is "progressing" under Pete.

 

[Missionhockey]

I am of the belief that Henrique succeeded despite Pete, not because of him. Remember, they sent him down to start the year and only got recalled because Jake got injured early on.

look at how everyone else is "progressing" under Pete.

He succeeded despite Pete, yep that's why he put so much faith in him early on.

Gotcha.

 

[Devils731]

Set Path vs individual development/merit? That is nothing more than a game of semantics.

I don't think those are semantics, they're 2 opposite philosophies. The examples you posted seem to show the Devils allowing a player to play whenever they're ready but you said most GMs believe there is a 3 year process to go through.

Only the very best step into the NHL <20 years, most of the time those players that do step right in are known to have been elite prospects even before they were drafted.

This doesn't apply to Boucher, if this discussion is about him, since he'll be 21 next year.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He succeeded despite Pete, yep that's why he put so much faith in him early on.

Gotcha.

even if you give Pete 100% full credit for Henrique, what about everyone else? Larsson, Gelinas, Josefson, etc.?

 

[Devils731]

even if you give Pete 100% full credit for Henrique, what about everyone else? Larsson, Gelinas, Josefson, etc.?

Larsson and Gelinas would still be too early to tell. Just like you can't give him credit for how good Merrill has looked so far too, although that's a young player he is giving a big opportunity to.

 

[Missionhockey]

even if you give Pete 100% full credit for Henrique, what about everyone else? Larsson, Gelinas, Josefson, etc.?

Gelinas came into the league and couldn't play defense consistently, Josefson is made of glass and is a black hole offensively and Larsson continuously makes poor decisions in the defensive zone. A lot of this has to do with accountability because the coach can't play the game for you, he can only try to protect you from situations and hope you adjust. None of them has shown they can.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Gelinas came into the league and couldn't play defense consistently, Josefson is made of glass and is a black hole offensively and Larsson continuously makes poor decisions in the defensive zone. A lot of this has to do with accountability because the coach can't play the game for you, he can only try to protect you from situations and hope you adjust. None of them has shown they can.

accountability? why can guys like Salvador, Harrold, Zidlicky, Gionta, etc. make all the mistakes in the world but yet they still play while young guys make 1 mistake and they are straight sent to Lou's box. its a total double standard.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

You might tell that to just about every GM that believes in a 3 year process. It is a very common philosophy in the NHL.


A high draft pick shouldn't need the grooming a lower one does.

A 4 year college player is going to be more mature than a 19 year old straight out of junior. A college player has been playing against 25 year olds in the NCAA on a regular basis.

NCAA players are going to be older and need less time in the AHL in general.

Zach Parise was 22 years old his rookie year - 2 years NCAA 1 year AHL.
Travis Zajac was 21 years old his rookie season 2 years NCAA and a special circumstances with Scott Gomez creating a vacancy at center.
Brian Gionta was 23 years old his rookie season 4 years NCAA and 1/2 year in the AHL. Spent a good 2&1/2 seasons on the 4th and 3rd lines before becoming a top 6 player.

Those development paths are ALL very similar and very measurable to their position in the draft.

How about players like Patrice Bergeron? Ryan O'Reilly? They jumped straight from juniors in their draft year, and were 2nd round picks.

Just looking at this season's top 20 rookie scorers...Jenner and Toffoli were junior player mid round picks who spent less than 80 games in the AHL before making a solid contribution in the NHL. Looking back to 12-13, we find Saad and Gallagher in the same camp. Our very own Adam Henrique fits the mold in 11-12, as well as Cody Hodgson.

Gallagher is actually a great comp based on success in juniors, in the AHL and stature.

I'm not trying to discredit your point, just highlighting the numerous examples of players who did not fit the three year mold. It's an individual thing, and should be assessed accordingly.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Gelinas came into the league and couldn't play defense consistently, Josefson is made of glass and is a black hole offensively and Larsson continuously makes poor decisions in the defensive zone. A lot of this has to do with accountability because the coach can't play the game for you, he can only try to protect you from situations and hope you adjust. None of them has shown they can.

Larsson doesn't make any more defensive mistakes than Zidlicky does. Don't even get me started on the captain and his quality of play or lack there of.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think those are semantics, they're 2 opposite philosophies. The examples you posted seem to show the Devils allowing a player to play whenever they're ready but you said most GMs believe there is a 3 year process to go through.



This doesn't apply to Boucher, if this discussion is about him, since he'll be 21 next year.

3 year process is just what it usually is, a player is ready when he is ready. Nobody is going to stop a player from graduating because he hasn't met the 3 year requirment.

But chances are a 20(going on 21) year old one year removed from junior with one year in the AHL that was a 4th round pick is going to need more seasoning.

Bobby Ryan was a #2 overall he was a far better prospect than Boucher can ever be and it still took 4 years from the time he was drafted to become a NHL regular.

 

[Missionhockey]

Larsson doesn't make any more defensive mistakes than Zidlicky does. Don't even get me started on the captain and his quality of play or lack there of.

First, Larsson can't put up 40 points and you're fooling yourself if you think he can. Also, it's already been stated but Salvador plays much tougher minutes than Larsson so you can't compare them. Also all the guys ZBC mentioned are being over utilized because the young guys haven't been able to show up consistently.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Salvador absolutely stinks.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

First, Larsson can't put up 40 points and you're fooling yourself if you think he can. Also, it's already been stated but Salvador plays much tougher minutes than Larsson so you can't compare them. Also all the guys ZBC mentioned are being over utilized because the young guys haven't been able to show up consistently.

I'm not taking about there offense games. I'm talking about there D-Zone abilities. Zidlicky gets caught out of position regularly and takes as many bad penalties as anybody. Larsson, AT WORST, is equal or above him when it comes to defense.

Salvador is horrid beyond belief. Just because he plays significant minutes doesn't mean he's doing something right. It means our coach is a dunce and can't recognize that the guy can't play anymore.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think those are semantics, they're 2 opposite philosophies. The examples you posted seem to show the Devils allowing a player to play whenever they're ready but you said most GMs believe there is a 3 year process to go through.



This doesn't apply to Boucher, if this discussion is about him, since he'll be 21 next year.

3 year process is just what it usually is, a player is ready when he is ready. Nobody is going to stop a player from graduating because he hasn't met the 3 year requirment.

But chances are a 20(going on 21) year old one year removed from junior with one year in the AHL that was a 4th round pick is going to need more seasoning.

Bobby Ryan was a #2 overall he was a far better prospect than Boucher can ever be and it still took 4 years from the time he was drafted to become a NHL regular.