Referees: Ref Slaps kid, Brawl Ensues

[Goonzilla]

Yea but you added in "semantics", kinda a nice slap in the face which wasn't warranted to since I was actually going by legal definitions in NY. I didnt start my post being a jerk, i clearly stated I was going by New York laws.

And yes, you can come to NY, and shove someone to the ground. If they don't have an injury, you will be charged with harassment in the 2nd degree, no worse than a speeding ticket.

Dude, I think you got the wrong end of the stick somewhere. There's nothing disparaging or insulting about the use of 'semantics', it just means two different interpretations or different terms for what is essentially the same thing. It doesn't at all suggest being obtuse, misleading or incorrect.

Not sure how you get a slap out of it.

 

[Goonzilla]

I would have to know more about exactly what happened (I've seen a lot of cases where things look a certain way in a video, but once you get into the nitty gritty of what exactly happened and you question the people involved, your perception of the video changes), but under most circumstances, I would say that a referee hitting a player is an assault.

When you play a sport, especially a sport like hockey, you "consent" to a lot of the hitting that happens in the sense that you know that is part of the game and you still play the game. But you do not consent to being hit by the referee under any circumstances.

i would also say that the second kid that went after the referee also committed an assault because, even if he was coming to his teammate's defense, his response was not proportional to the threat.

Do I think anyone should be arrested or charged for what happened? No. But I do think there should be some kind of organizational discipline for everyone involved, the players and the referee.

Well that's pretty much the same position I arrived at; and certainly video doesn't always paint the whole picture, but of course if someone makes a complaint you've gotta take a look at what happened.

I still assert that the kid who attacked the ref was a lot higher up on the ladder in terms of seriousness; and probably a lot more in need or deserving of some form of intervention to ensure he and others think about it twice next time.

I don't think the sanctions someone mentioned that were actually handed down do a lot to enhance the credibility of whatever outfit runs that league..nor do they reduce the likelihood of any repeat in future.

 

[cowboy82nd]

You might the only person who is calling this child abuse,

Again, WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN, better yet, just....turn off the computer...it's better for everyone involved....it's pointless to argue with you, you certainly have no idea what goes on out there....to even try and justify the attack by the player on the ref is asinine, and absolutely no one is defending the ref, you do realize that BOTH can be wrong, right? Yea..didn't think you did....

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

 

[cowboy82nd]

I would have to know more about exactly what happened (I've seen a lot of cases where things look a certain way in a video, but once you get into the nitty gritty of what exactly happened and you question the people involved, your perception of the video changes), but under most circumstances, I would say that a referee hitting a player is an assault.

When you play a sport, especially a sport like hockey, you "consent" to a lot of the hitting that happens in the sense that you know that is part of the game and you still play the game. But you do not consent to being hit by the referee under any circumstances.

i would also say that the second kid that went after the referee also committed an assault because, even if he was coming to his teammate's defense, his response was not proportional to the threat.

Do I think anyone should be arrested or charged for what happened? No. But I do think there should be some kind of organizational discipline for everyone involved, the players and the referee.

I agree.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Ref either needs some serious re-training or needs to be removed from being able to officiate a game. Not sure what he was doing, but when you become an official/linesman, you are well aware that when things go out of hand you may get into physical altercations with players, and you have to know that resorting to physicality (other than restraining the player) is a no-go.

Also those kids needed much harsher suspensions than what they got. You just cannot go after someone from behind and do that. The ref wasn't even looking to beat the kid, so I'm not sure what he was trying to defend him from.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I'm curious if people even watched the video. The kid committed an act of aggression. You grab somebody by the collar, that's typically a sign that you're about to hit the person you're grabbing:

And if you notice right before the ref smacks the kid, the kid jaunts forward which was obviously misconstrued.

 

[selyak]

Apparently this is how it shook out:

The kid that they say the referee hit apparently got a 2 game suspension for verbally abusing an official and the other kid that got suspended was not the one that hit the referee, but rather the kid that was fighting at the beginning. His suspension was for fighting. It appears that the kid that attacked the ref did not get suspended at all, and the league did not investigate. The local police investigated, but it looks like no charges were filed.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Apparently this is how it shook out:

The kid that they say the referee hit apparently got a 2 game suspension for verbally abusing an official and the other kid that got suspended was not the one that hit the referee, but rather the kid that was fighting at the beginning. His suspension was for fighting. It appears that the kid that attacked the ref did not get suspended at all, and the league did not investigate. The local police investigated, but it looks like no charges were filed.

Way to teach that kid a lesson!

 

[DyerMaker66*]

You might the only person who is calling this child abuse,

Again, WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN, better yet, just....turn off the computer...it's better for everyone involved....it's pointless to argue with you, you certainly have no idea what goes on out there....to even try and justify the attack by the player on the ref is asinine, and absolutely no one is defending the ref, you do realize that BOTH can be wrong, right? Yea..didn't think you did....

Apparently the people in charge agreed with me and not you. You can log off your computer and walk away now.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

No, thank the off-ice officials for having more sense than either of you two.

 

[HunterRice]

i was always taught if someone hits you you have the right to defend yourself no matter who it is, the ref was in the wrong, i wouldve hit him as well, as a ref you should never smack a player, i dont care how old the player is

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Apparently the people in charge agreed with me and not you. You can log off your computer and walk away now.

So then....you should have no problem with people in charge...right?


Like...Gary Bettman? Or the NHL Player Safety Discipline?

Yea..thought so...

 

[DyerMaker66*]

So then....you should have no problem with people in charge...right?

Way to move the goal posts. How does not always agreeing with the people in charge become having no problem with them?

Like...Gary Bettman? Or the NHL Player Safety Discipline?

Yea..thought so...

I don't think I have a problem with DOPS, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure
I've commended them for making videos explaining why certain hits are suspendable or not. They actually took on some accountability for their decisions and how they make them.

So, uh, yeah. Thought so.

 

[opivy]

#15 should be charged with assault.

 

[opivy]

Ref either needs some serious re-training or needs to be removed from being able to officiate a game. Not sure what he was doing, but when you become an official/linesman, you are well aware that when things go out of hand you may get into physical altercations with players, and you have to know that resorting to physicality (other than restraining the player) is a no-go.

Also those kids needed much harsher suspensions than what they got. You just cannot go after someone from behind and do that. The ref wasn't even looking to beat the kid, so I'm not sure what he was trying to defend him from.

To me it looked like the ref was trying to grab the back of the kids jersey neck and stumbled as well. #15 came at the ref right as the other player tied up and looked like he was already about to hit him.

I know as a ref over the years I've had shots taken at me, punches thrown at me, slough foots when you go into scrums etc. You just have to be a little more wise and intelligent on how you dole out the punishment. Fill out your paperwork, be a pro and make a proper report. Don't sink to the level of a 16 year old throwing a temper tantrum. If a kid is wired that way you know that the parents aren't going to do anything about it but enforce the horrible behavior and your only recourse is through diplomacy.

This is why I don't do high school games, juniors are more yappy but they respect the game and the system. High school is just a bunch of wanna be's and their parents shouting about killing each other and having zero respect for the game or its officials.

I wish the ref had knocked one of the punks teeth out since he crossed the line, and I hope #15 becomes a ref one day and takes a clapper in the teeth. If you haven't reffed, and high school specifically, you just don't understand my anger.

 

[selyak]

To me it looked like the ref was trying to grab the back of the kids jersey neck and stumbled as well. #15 came at the ref right as the other player tied up and looked like he was already about to hit him.

That's actually the official story from the ref's association - that he was trying to grab the kid by the collar and inadvertently hit him. I guess I take that explanation with a grain of salt, but that's what he says.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Way to move the goal posts. How does not always agreeing with the people in charge become having no problem with them?



I don't think I have a problem with DOPS, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure
I've commended them for making videos explaining why certain hits are suspendable or not. They actually took on some accountability for their decisions and how they make them.

So, uh, yeah. Thought so.

Moving goal posts?

You took it as because you know what...nevermind, you are a clown, it's been shown on here, again and again and again,

I will just let it show....good luck with your game 7 this weekend, hopefully you won't need a ref to hide behind...

 

[PerpetualTankYear]

Not sure if it's been talked about yet...

but why the **** are the benches that far into one zone???

 

[cowboy82nd]

No, thank the off-ice officials for having more sense than either of you two.

Well, the off-ice official didn't charge the ref for "child abuse". That was pretty much what I was saying earlier.

 

[Crosbyfan]

#15 should be charged with assault.

He was certainly far worse than anyone else involved, ref included. Any organization that can leave a player unpunished for that is not much of an organization.

 

[cowboy82nd]

He was certainly far worse than anyone else involved, ref included. Any organization that can leave a player unpunished for that is not much of an organization.

Watch what you say here. There are some posters that think number 15 actions are warranted.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

There was no "assaults" in the video. Assault means there was some sort of injury, obvious there wasn't from what I can tell.

At worst its a charge of harassment, a violation, not even a crime.

(Going by New York laws).

[For civil cases, unless NY has significantly different rules than most states]

An assault occurs when someone intends to cause, and causes, another to feel an imminent apprehension of harmful or offensive contact.

A battery occurs when someone intends to cause, and causes, a harmful or offensive contact.

Neither requires injury.

It's not assault: You are consenting to being hit and you expect such from the other team.

Some courts aren't a fan of assumption of risk being applied to youth sports. Checking of course would be fine, but fighting might be up for debate.

But even if they ruled that fighting was fine, is unlikely they would allow the ref to use assumption of risk as a defense. When a player consents to the rough sport of hockey, he is consenting to getting hit by other players, not the refs. That would exceed the scope of consent.

Because as I have pointed out to you using force to stop assault is not assault. I don't get what you're not understanding about that.

If the force used in response was reasonable then it would be privileged under self-defense, if you use more force than is reasonable than you can be held liable.

 

[Fanned On It]

I don't know I really don't think that little "slap" to a kid with a helmet on was a big deal. Sometimes kids need to get their heads shook. Sometimes their parents won't do it for them. It was a completely HARMLESS slap that probably hurt the ref's hand more than the kid's head.

 

[gqmixmaster]

The kid the ref is trying to restrain/get off the ice has his hand pulling down at the refs collar. That's a no-no in my books. Should the ref have slapped him? Absolutely not. But it wasn't unwarranted.

Exactly - the player broke the unwritten rule touching the ref like that - when that happens the ref is allowed to physically restrain him and if his technique includes slapping his helmet so be it. The coaches and parents are at fault for not teaching their kids to respect the game.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Exactly - the player broke the unwritten rule touching the ref like that - when that happens the ref is allowed to physically restrain him and if his technique includes slapping his helmet so be it. The coaches and parents are at fault for not teaching their kids to respect the game.

Slapping a kid is not "restraining"....