Red Wings at the Deadline II

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Bench

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On just pure defensive ability Yandle is worse than anybody we started last night.

Ehhhh. Replace Quincey or Smith with Yandle and I doubt you see much difference there.

And the benefit is, you'd get a guy who is a tremendous passer and turns your already #1 powerplay into a monster, removing DeKeyser from those duties.

I just don't see how rolling a group of defenders out there that are average defensively and below average offensively is going to lead to anything but struggles. Give Yandle a babysitter and take a chance he can springboard our offensive stars.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Ehhhh. Replace Quincey or Smith with Yandle and I doubt you see much difference there.

And the benefit is, you'd get a guy who is a tremendous passer and turns your already #1 powerplay into a monster, removing DeKeyser from those duties.

I just don't see how rolling a group of defenders out there that are average defensively and below average offensively is going to lead to anything but struggles. Give Yandle a babysitter and take a chance he can springboard our offensive stars.

Really struggle to see Yandle moving without Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha or Larkin being involved, if so.... Well I am out, if they insist on one of the first two we are a worse team in my opinion, even if at that point the rest of the package is minimal.

If they are willing to take Jurco, Smith and something else, well you at least have an interesting swing at improving us, though I think Yandle's defensive problems will become well documented here in a hurry. Hope somebody can babysit him, he will need it.
 

TimoneX

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I think that's a big reason to trade for him, though, if the cost is right. Getting a good look at him and knowing if he's someone we want to sign could be worth some disposable assets to keep us out of a longer deal we could quickly regret. I'm not against just running with the kids for this year, either.

I can see the logic there, though I don't see KH meeting a pricetag that makes MacT smile unless the Wings suffer some injuries. Think I rather see the Wings roll with the kids and then use those assets to obtain upgrades in the summer if things get ugly.

Wouldn't like it a bunch if the Wings trade for Petry(Sproul + a 2nd perhaps?) and then he doesn't fit in well. ...or he does fits in ok, but lands a contract I hate. Meanwhile Green signs somewhere else because Detroit has Petry.
 

Bench

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Really struggle to see Yandle moving without Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha or Larkin being involved, if so.... Well I am out, if they insist on one of the first two we are a worse team in my opinion, even if at that point the rest of the package is minimal.

If they are willing to take Jurco, Smith and something else, well you at least have an interesting swing at improving us, though I think Yandle's defensive problems will become well documented here in a hurry. Hope somebody can babysit him, he will need it.

I get where you're coming from. It's not a risk free proposal. Nor do I know if it's even realistic, as you are aptly pointing out.

But I hope rather than get hung up on the names and specifics, people realize this team could use a boost to puck moving in a big way. The Wings, if they want to return to the glory days of a productive blueline, need far more offensive generated. And we're not going to get there running Ericsson, DeKeyser, and Quincey 20 minutes a night.

Guys like Suter and Green are ideals, but when that fails to materialize, I think you have to seriously consider trying plan B than running out the same middle of the road guys that are safe, but wholly unable to overcome the better teams in the league. I love this Wings team and their internal, slow build mentality, but they've yet to create the offensive defenseman this team desperately needs, so it's time to bring in some outside talent. Smith and Kindl were the great white whales of a hope and have not delivered, so here we are.
 

odin1981

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I wouldn't mind Boychuk either. Granted term for him will be the biggest risk. If we could sign him for 6 or less for 4-5 years that would be preferable. However I feel we have to pass on him if he wants 7 years if he even makes it to ufa. He can be a good partner with Kronner and he can play on pp as well.
 

Claypool

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Really struggle to see Yandle moving without Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha or Larkin being involved, if so.... Well I am out, if they insist on one of the first two we are a worse team in my opinion, even if at that point the rest of the package is minimal.

If they are willing to take Jurco, Smith and something else, well you at least have an interesting swing at improving us, though I think Yandle's defensive problems will become well documented here in a hurry. Hope somebody can babysit him, he will need it.

They're not going to give Yandle away. He's going to cost a young, NHL-proven roster player to start, a young NHL defenseman, and a high draft pick. It would cost Nyquist/Sheahan, DeKeyser, and a draft pick to get it done. If you think Arizona would do any other kind of deal you're delusional.
 

Bench

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They're not going to give Yandle away. He's going to cost a young, NHL-proven roster player to start, a young NHL defenseman, and a high draft pick. It would cost Nyquist/Sheahan, DeKeyser, and a draft pick to get it done. If you think Arizona would do any other kind of deal you're delusional.

That's way more than better players have pulled in trades. What team would give that type of ransom up? Certainly nobody with illusions of contending.

A young, 60-point forward. A young, steady, 30-point defender. And a draft pick? That's like the asking price for Weber, not Yandle.
 

Claypool

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That's way more than better players have pulled in trades. What team would give that type of ransom up? Certainly nobody with illusions of contending.

A young, 60-point forward. A young, steady, 30-point defender. And a draft pick? That's like the asking price for Weber, not Yandle.

I don't think Sheahan and DeKeyser have as much value as you think they do around the league. They're good, young players that have shown promise, but that's it. They're not trading Yandle for a forward that's been scratched (Jurco), a defenseman that doesn't play on a power play (Smith), and a bottom ten first round pick. Maybe you do DeKeyser, Mantha/Larkin, and a pick to keep Arizona on the phone.
 

rx7dryver

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Canucks have a right handed D named Clendening. I just watched him let off a bomb from the point.

Make it happen Kenny.
 

Bench

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I don't think Sheahan and DeKeyser have as much value as you think they do around the league. They're good, young players that have shown promise, but that's it. They're not trading Yandle for a forward that's been scratched (Jurco), a defenseman that doesn't play on a power play (Smith), and a bottom ten first round pick. Maybe you do DeKeyser, Mantha/Larkin, and a pick to keep Arizona on the phone.

Arizona would be thrilled to get an offer anywhere near DeKeyser, Mantha/Larkin, and a pick from any team. Think about what that equates to? Let alone "keep on the phone."

That's basically like getting three 1st round picks, if you believe DeKeyser is as good as most mid-late 1st round pick defenders... which he is.

Yandle isn't going to be cheap, but you're ballparking huge prices that don't add up to the reality of what we've seen in NHL trades. The only time a young player of that caliber gets shipped out is if he comes with question marks in play or attitude, like Evander Kane or Kyle Turris.

Think closer to Helm as that roster player, if history repeats itself, and I think it will.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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They're not going to give Yandle away. He's going to cost a young, NHL-proven roster player to start, a young NHL defenseman, and a high draft pick. It would cost Nyquist/Sheahan, DeKeyser, and a draft pick to get it done. If you think Arizona would do any other kind of deal you're delusional.

I didn't say they would, I said that is the most I could stomach for him...

Two entirely different things, I think I said it would take one of Tatar, Nyquist, Mantha or Larkin and I would not do it...
 

Laser Rayzor

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I don't see why Larkin/Mantha/Nyquist/Tatar have to be moved bring in a guy like Yandle.

Someone tell me if I'm off base here but I see Yandle having similar value to Bobby Ryan when he was traded and I didn't see any of the sens top value pieces (Zibi, Lazar...etc) being moved in that deal. I think we could make a comparable offer out of 3 or 4 of: Sheahan, Helm, Jurco, Pulu, Smith, 2016 1st and other minor pieces to balance out value as needed. I'd obviously want to protect Sheahan but I think he'd be a demand on their end.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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I didn't say they would, I said that is the most I could stomach for him...

Two entirely different things, I think I said it would take one of Tatar, Nyquist, Mantha or Larkin and I would not do it...

i really do not think it would.

when ever has a team traded a young very proven top 6 if not top 4 forward plus plus for anyone in the last decade let along for a guy who is not a superstar

so many people wish to spew the typical "its gonna cost mantha or larkin plus" venom only to be proven wrong.

myers was moved for half what hf board posters thought it would take

yes it would take a first rd pick
yes it wold take a guy like jurco or pulkinnen
yes it would take a depth prospect
after that it wouldnt take very much
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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I don't see why Larkin/Mantha/Nyquist/Tatar have to be moved bring in a guy like Yandle.

Someone tell me if I'm off base here but I see Yandle having similar value to Bobby Ryan when he was traded and I didn't see any of the sens top value pieces (Zibi, Lazar...etc) being moved in that deal. I think we could make a comparable offer out of 3 or 4 of: Sheahan, Helm, Jurco, Pulu, Smith, 2016 1st and other minor pieces to balance out value as needed. I'd obviously want to protect Sheahan but I think he'd be a demand on their end.

your right, in fact,

ryan
kesler
hossa
thronton
heatley
burns
seguin
luongo
myers
bouwmesster
neal

were ALL traded for lesser players than a nyquist or tatar(and how they perfromed after the trade is equally as important for GM's who do their research)

their is an hf board myth out there designed solely as a scare tactic based on la;ck of actual hockey knowledge
 
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detredWINgs

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I don't think Sheahan and DeKeyser have as much value as you think they do around the league. They're good, young players that have shown promise, but that's it. They're not trading Yandle for a forward that's been scratched (Jurco), a defenseman that doesn't play on a power play (Smith), and a bottom ten first round pick. Maybe you do DeKeyser, Mantha/Larkin, and a pick to keep Arizona on the phone.

I don't think you understand their value. First of all, to say they have "shown promise" when they both have 100+ NHL games over two separate seasons of purely solid hockey under their belt is a strange characterization. Second, teams overvalue big, young players all day long. Sheahan is a huge body at 6'3 220+. Dekeyser is a lengthy body at 6'3" and has the proportionate reach. Third, both are sound defensive players. Lastly, they both fill incredibly important roles that teams are always looking to upgrade on.

I would actually go as far as to say that if there were a forward and defenseman each on this roster that teams would overvalue most, it would be Sheahan and Dekeyser.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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i really do not think it would.

when ever has a team traded a young very proven top 6 if not top 4 forward plus plus for anyone in the last decade let along for a guy who is not a superstar

so many people wish to spew the typical "its gonna cost mantha or larkin plus" venom only to be proven wrong.

myers was moved for half what hf board posters thought it would take

yes it would take a first rd pick
yes it wold take a guy like jurco or pulkinnen
yes it would take a depth prospect
after that it wouldnt take very much

True packages generally go lower, but usually have at least one asset the trading team really cares about. Hey maybe we can sell them on a piece we can live with. I am on record I move the first pick without much concern.

I think Yandle's price actually drops at the draft as the closer he gets to the end of the contract or if he demands a trade it will ding his value.

Not sure it is to that level yet. Custance suggested they were holding pretty firm on Mantha at this point... He is pretty plugged in guy, especially with the Wings, probably the best in this regard in terms of the National guys.
 

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On just pure defensive ability Yandle is worse than anybody we started last night. Now do you take what he does awfully bad with what he does incredibly well... I get those that are interested, but I think Yandle has been quite fortunate to be in Arizona for a while now or people would really be taking him to task for his actual defensive play and total lack of ability in reading simple defensive coverage.

I mean for as often as people light up Karlsson and previously Green (some still do) he makes those guys look like Ryan Suter in terms of their defensive zone reads.

He is lucky that his ability to overrun plays is made up some of the time by his ability to skate his backside right back to fix it. But it is alarming just how often Keith Yandle appears to have no idea what people are tying to do to him given how many games and prime minutes he has logged. His defensive recognition is putrid.

How often do you watch Yandle, serious question. I have a place in Scottsdale so get to catch yotes game fairly often. While he is no defensive stalwart, in my opinion he's better than Smith, Kindl, Ericsson the way he's playing this year and XO as of now. Yes he sucks at reading the play but he also makes smarter decisions with the puck, I.E no smith or big rig level turnovers.

With that being said I'd still prefer Tyutin or Z. Michalek if possible. Cheaper and better all around. Maybe Sekera
 

The Zetterberg Era

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How often do you watch Yandle, serious question. I have a place in Scottsdale so get to catch yotes game fairly often. While he is no defensive stalwart, in my opinion he's better than Smith, Kindl, Ericsson the way he's playing this year and XO as of now.

A decent amount, center ice and all. I generally put on a late game, have Dallas and San Jose on right now. I don't just watch the Wings though they obviously come first on the nights they are playing.

Not a huge fan of watching Yotes games because I cannot stand Tippett's system. However, he has always struggled against top flight players, he is easily exploited when asked to check anyone of significant talent.

Kindl didn't dress last night I give Yandle an advantage there defensively.

Smith does a better job in the corners and in front of his own net than Yandle. Who also could barely hit his way out of a wet paper bag. Yandle has a really bad penchant for wandering, but I can see people preferring him to Smith, really the complaints that are at times manufactured out of an outright frustration in Smith around here would be the same in terms of watching Keith Yandle play defense and that is with the honeymoon period it would still be hard to watch him play with his head up his *** in the defensive zone for large stretches of the game. At best he is a wash in terms of pure defensive ability I think he is worse, though his offense would be a significant upgrade, I said I would include Smith in a package for him in this thread. Which is hard for me, I like Smith, but honestly I would like to see him move on for a better opportunity at this point.

Ericsson is lightyears ahead of Yandle defensively. I know people hate his outlet passes and whatever else as one of the resident whipping boys, but if Yandle had one tenth of Ericsson's positional understanding and physicality in front of the net and in the corners, he might get mentioned in Norris conversations because while still bad he would at least be passable enough for the award at that point. Keep that in mind, for all his points the entire hockey world seems to crap on his defensive game sans Lombardi sticking up for him in a half hearted attempt in terms of Team USA there is a reason he is left out of that stuff. His defensive game is that bad. Cannot PK, cannot play his offside, relies on speed alone to get the job done. It does a lot of the time because his skating is that good, but he allows just as many glorious chances as he creates if not more and Babcock hates that.
 

Run the Jewels

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How often do you watch Yandle, serious question. I have a place in Scottsdale so get to catch yotes game fairly often. While he is no defensive stalwart, in my opinion he's better than Smith, Kindl, Ericsson the way he's playing this year and XO as of now.

The sooner you realize no one is worth trading for and all our prospects are can't miss NHL'ers the sooner you'll fit in here. I can't recall the last time there was a guy worth acquiring via trade and I'm being dead serious. Jay Bouwmeester, Zach Bogosian, Tyler Myers, Cody Franson, Mike Green (assuming he's actually available), Keith Yandle (assuming he's available), James Wisniewski, and Johnny Boychuk are all among the guys who were not worth trading for to improve the roster. 6 out of 8 of those guys have been traded. But hey, we've still got Jakub Kindl, Brendan Smith, and our 2015 first round draft pick! :sarcasm:
 

Run the Jewels

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Seems like the Yotes have been dangling Yandle forever...dood must feel like a yo-yo. At this point I'll be glad when his contract ends and they're forced to do something with him.

Likely they re-sign him to a 5yr deal and then start dangling again.

That was the case with Ales Hemsky. Guy seemed to always be available via trade. At the very end of his contract he finally got moved to the Stars.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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That was the case with Ales Hemsky. Guy seemed to always be available via trade. At the very end of his contract he finally got moved to the Stars.

Traded to the Sens for a minimal return, went to the Stars as an UFA. The Oilers really held on to him much too long, not surprising as they have the worst front office in hockey. They tanked his value and saw nothing of what Hemsky could have returned even a couple years ago and sold him for pennies on the dollar.
 

detredWINgs

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The sooner you realize no one is worth trading for and all our prospects are can't miss NHL'ers the sooner you'll fit in here. I can't recall the last time there was a guy worth acquiring via trade and I'm being dead serious. Jay Bouwmeester, Zach Bogosian, Tyler Myers, Cody Franson, Mike Green (assuming he's actually available), Keith Yandle (assuming he's available), James Wisniewski, and Johnny Boychuk are all among the guys who were not worth trading for to improve the roster. 6 out of 8 of those guys have been traded. But hey, we've still got Jakub Kindl, Brendan Smith, and our 2015 first round draft pick! :sarcasm:

Not sure what you're talking about. A ton of people on this board were/are in favor of trading for Myers, Green, Yandle, and Bouwmeester. In some cases, easily more than half. But people see what they want to see, I guess.
 
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