Salary Cap: Red Wings 2018-19 Cap discussion

[Henkka]

Unless the cap jumps to 100 million dollars, Gator's cap hit does not suck any less. Paying 4.25 million a year for a 30ish point bottom six forward that is already 31 for five more years will always be a problem.

How is Helm's contract worse? Three years left at 3.85 million vs. 4.25 million with five years remaining. What's crazy is that Gator's contract is so bad it almost makes Helm's contract look good.

Because Abdelkader is a better hockey player.

Abdelkader 4.25M with 80M cap is 2.9M with 55M cap (2008 2009 days). That was same value for prime Cleary. Same role player. Nothing wrong with the contract.

Time to understand simple mathematics in here.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I explained that, I said I would retain salary on Helm/E (probably 1mil each), and trade AA for Faulk which was a rumored deal.

AA for Faulk was never a rumored deal. It was a musing from Friedman.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Because Abdelkader is a better hockey player.

Abdelkader 4.25M with 80M cap is 2.9M with 55M cap (2008 2009 days). That was same value for prime Cleary. Same role player. Nothing wrong with the contract.

Time to understand simple mathematics in here.

Justin Abdelkader prime Dan Cleary? Right...

Cleary had four 40+ point seasons in his prime.

Gator? ONE.

Cleary wasn't playing on a seven year contract either that kicked in after he was 30.

The value isn't even remotely close.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

AA for Faulk was never a rumor, it was Friedman throwing out an idea. And we’d have to add a lotttt for Faulk.

As for Helm, he has a NMC. He isn’t going anywhere next year, even with retainment. Additionally, you forgot Glendenning. If next year starts and more than one of Helm, Nyquist, Kronwall, or Glendenning is off the roster, I will conwider myself pleasently surprised.

I explained that, I said I would retain salary on Helm/E (probably 1mil each), and trade AA for Faulk which was a rumored deal.

 

[Goalie guy]

Unless the cap jumps to 100 million dollars, Gator's cap hit does not suck any less. Paying 4.25 million a year for a 30ish point bottom six forward that is already 31 for five more years will always be a problem.

How is Helm's contract worse? Three years left at 3.85 million vs. 4.25 million with five years remaining. What's crazy is that Gator's contract is so bad it almost makes Helm's contract look good.

But but I was yelled at and told I knew nothing and Abby is a top 6 winger good for 40+ points a season lol.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

But but I was yelled at and told I knew nothing and Abby is a top 6 winger good for 40+ points a season lol.

I'd be a good top six winger if i had Datsyuk centering me as well. I would just flail about on the ice like i'm having a stroke and put up 30 points.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Justin Abdelkader prime Dan Cleary? Right...

Cleary had four 40+ point seasons in his prime.

Gator? ONE.

Cleary wasn't playing on a seven year contract either that kicked in after he was 30.

The value isn't even remotely close.

It's almost like Dan Cleary played on better teams....

I will take Abdelkader between the two.

I do think the backside of Gator's contract is not great at all.

He is however having a similar season to AA, so I mean how far do we want to push the Abdelkader stinks narrative around here... It is not great for some of the other players you want to prop up. His contract is not great though and we all know that.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

It's almost like Dan Cleary played on better teams....

I will take Abdelkader between the two.

I do think the backside of Gator's contract is not great at all.

He is however having a similar season to AA, so I mean how far do we want to push the Abdelkader stinks narrative around here... It is not great for some of the other players you want to prop up. His contract is not great though and we all know that.

Last time i checked AA wasn't 31 or playing on a seven year contract.

Abdelkader was signed to his ludicrous extension to be a 40 point player. He will not produce a single 40 point season for the entirety of his contract.

His contract represents everything that is wrong with the franchise.

 

[Henkka]

Last time i checked AA wasn't 31 or playing on a seven year contract.

Abdelkader was signed to his ludicrous extension to be a 40 point player. He will not produce a single 40 point season for the entirety of his contract.

His contract represents everything that is wrong with the franchise.

Abdelkader and Nielsen will be the only veterans in a young team at 2021. I don't see a problem here.

But problem-see'ers can see a problem anywhere.

 

[Winger98]

By the time the 21/22 season rolls around the vets will be Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Frk, Svech... .

 

[Goalie guy]

Let me be very clear I do not dislike Abby at all, I just don't see him as a top 6 player.

 

[BinCookin]

Last time i checked AA wasn't 31 or playing on a seven year contract.

Abdelkader was signed to his ludicrous extension to be a 40 point player. He will not produce a single 40 point season for the entirety of his contract.

His contract represents everything that is wrong with the franchise.

He could get to 40 pts this year :/

 

[WingedWheel1987]

He could get to 40 pts this year :/

Eight points in seven games? I doubt he even makes it to 35.

 

[kliq]

AA for Faulk was never a rumor, it was Friedman throwing out an idea. And we’d have to add a lotttt for Faulk.

As for Helm, he has a NMC. He isn’t going anywhere next year, even with retainment. Additionally, you forgot Glendenning. If next year starts and more than one of Helm, Nyquist, Kronwall, or Glendenning is off the roster, I will conwider myself pleasently surprised.

Look, I'm not saying what I think is going to happen, I'm giving what would be the dream scenario. Unfortunately, you may be right about AA.

Also, Helm has a NTC not a NMC.

 

[kliq]

AA for Faulk was never a rumored deal. It was a musing from Friedman.

Yes I know, again this is just a dream scenario.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Look, I'm not saying what I think is going to happen, I'm giving what would be the dream scenario. Unfortunately, you may be right about AA.

Also, Helm has a NTC not a NMC.

Helm has a full NTC through the 2018/2019 season. Full NTC and NMC are pretty much the same thing either way he has a say where he goes.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

It's almost like Dan Cleary played on better teams....

I will take Abdelkader between the two.

I do think the backside of Gator's contract is not great at all.

He is however having a similar season to AA, so I mean how far do we want to push the Abdelkader stinks narrative around here... It is not great for some of the other players you want to prop up. His contract is not great though and we all know that.

Did you just mention backside and Abdelkader in a sentence that had nothing to do with his favored method of goal scoring? And they said it couldn't be done!

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Helm has a full NTC through the 2018/2019 season. Full NTC and NMC are pretty much the same thing either way he has a say where he goes.

I guess, but I will explain quickly how they are not the same.

I don't want to go to so and so... Alright well we know they like you, but let's find out who else likes you and we are going to waive you if that is what it comes down to...

A NMC has total leverage, the NTC has good leverage but it depends on what the organization is willing to do. You might comply to going to another market after you talk to your agent if you think waivers are a legitimate option.

For the record at this point I would give Helm away on waivers to free up the spot and cash. But that is the big thing if people hate his contract like us and want the Wings to eat money okay. But he might wind up on waivers anyway attempting to get out from under a full claim. To me I think losing Helm that way wouldn't cause me to lose any sleep. I know people would call that wasted assets but I think getting rid of his contract and him and the roles he usurps on the team is worth just hoping for a waiver claim. You can also put him on waivers and still play him, I would start doing this with Helm as soon as next fall.

 

[kliq]

Helm has a full NTC through the 2018/2019 season. Full NTC and NMC are pretty much the same thing either way he has a say where he goes.

In the context of a trade, yes. But they are much different. With a NMC from my understanding you cannot be send down to the AHL, and you cannot be exposed in an expansion draft. Either way though, these are semantics. I was just posting my dream scenario lol. If I said, "this should happen" completely different context.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

In the context of a trade, yes. But they are much different. With a NMC from my understanding you cannot be send down to the AHL, and you cannot be exposed in an expansion draft. Either way though, these are semantics. I was just posting my dream scenario lol. If I said, "this should happen" completely different context.

That's what i was referring to trade wise that they're pretty similar, I know that with a NMC they can't be sent down to the AHL and if they're to get bought out they can just waive it without getting put on waivers as well.

 

[kliq]

That's what i was referring to trade wise that they're pretty similar, I know that with a NMC they can't be sent down to the AHL and if they're to get bought out they can just waive it without getting put on waivers as well.

Exactly. Though, if we tried to trade Helm to a contender, my gut tells me he would take the trade. I believe he was born in Winnipeg, that's who I would be contacting if I were Holland or future GM.

You would have to assume that he would be ok with going home, though with that being said I'm not sure if Winnipeg winters are that appealing lol.

 

[Leadzedder]

Why are you folks talking about Helm and Abdelkader?

It would be nice to see others thoughts on the roster next year instead of reading recycled threads on bad contracts, which don't really affect us at all.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Why are you folks talking about Helm and Abdelkader?

It would be nice to see others thoughts on the roster next year instead of reading recycled threads on bad contracts, which don't really affect us at all.

Yeah it’s getting old. We all know everyone’s thoughts on those contracts by now and not much will change.

Not sure what interesting FAs are out there but would assume we’ll be pretty quiet apart from going after a goalie and trying to sign Green.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Not trying to be an ass, but you really should use spellcheck lol.

People don't necessarily want Glendening and Nielsen out because of their skill set, its more a combination of cap-hit, age, and current value.
Nyquist for example is a person I am not pushing to move, because I think his value will be much higher at the trade deadline.

Glendening is a great 4C, but 1.8 mil for a 4C on a re-building team is just not really necessary. A guy like him with his cap-hit is better off on a team like the Leafs.
Nielsen just has way to high of a cap-hit, and since we are loaded with mid tier centers, we really don't need him.

I 100% think he is not a native English speaker.

 

[Dotter]

Justin Abdelkader prime Dan Cleary? Right...

Cleary had four 40+ point seasons in his prime.

Gator? ONE.

Cleary wasn't playing on a seven year contract either that kicked in after he was 30.

The value isn't even remotely close.

Check again. He's close to hitting his 3rd 40 point season this year if he doesn't break his face and play 2 months with a shield on, and it's not impossible he can't hit 40 this season, though unlikely, he's very close.

Facts are a wonderful thing. You should try using them once in a while.