Prospect Info: Red Wings #1 prospect

[Oddbob]

Raymond got drafted 4th, and Seider 6th. What makes Raymond better by a country mile and best player drafted in 20+ years?

 

[MrKriben]

I would from what I've seen in SHL so far rate Seider as #1 over Raymond.
Seider looks NHL ready and 5 games into his SHL season he is +5 with 1+4 and plays on one of the best teams first pair and PP.
A future first paring of Seider and Johansson looks sick to be honest.

When it comes to Raymond, my view is that he is too lacking defensivly. He is given 2nd line minutes with two really good playmakers that helps him defensivly but still he is only +1 and from what I've seen the backcheck is not really that good as when he goes forward. He is not bad in any way, he is a brilliant offensive player but he will need a center or a winger that helps him unless he develops that side and then perhaps risk this offensive upside.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I would from what I've seen in SHL so far rate Seider as #1 over Raymond.
Seider looks NHL ready and 5 games into his SHL season he is +5 with 1+4 and plays on one of the best teams first pair and PP.
A future first paring of Seider and Johansson looks sick to be honest.

When it comes to Raymond, my view is that he is too lacking defensivly. He is given 2nd line minutes with two really good playmakers that helps him defensivly but still he is only +1 and from what I've seen the backcheck is not really that good as when he goes forward. He is not bad in any way, he is a brilliant offensive player but he will need a center or a winger that helps him unless he develops that side and then perhaps risk this offensive upside.

I rate Seider ahead but I don't think Raymond's defensive game is an issue at all. He's very good for an 18 year old winger.

 

[Leronziia]

It's Seider, not by a huge margin, he's just a lock to play 1000+ quality NHL games, health providing.

 

[Henkka]

What makes Raymond better by a country mile and best player drafted in 20+ years?

Nothing. But both are great to have. Defensive players with skill.

Low GAA correlates most with winning in hockey. That's a proven fact. And if our future leading players are already like that, and setting the bar for rest of the future core, our rebuild is on a right way.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Easily Moritz

Right now the guy has top pairing dman written all over him, playing consistent 25 mins a game in all situations for the next 15 years.

This is more valuable than any winger unless their as good as Kane or Ovie

 

[Ricelund]

I think the only reason this poll is close is because Raymond's a shiny new object and will likely be the flashier player if he pans out.

 

[Henkka]

I think the only reason this poll is close is because Raymond's a shiny new object and will likely be the flashier player if he pans out.

I predict the opposite. All Konstantinov fans will wake up when Mortiz Seider will start his NHL career.

 

[Frk It]

I think the only reason this poll is close is because Raymond's a shiny new object and will likely be the flashier player if he pans out.

Raymond was #2 going into his draft season. They were taken in similar draft slots and both have lots of upside. There are reasons it would be close.

 

[r0bert8841]

I think the only reason this poll is close is because Raymond's a shiny new object and will likely be the flashier player if he pans out.

I think Seider needs to show a little more offensive upside to be considered better than Raymond.

 

[Henkka]

I think Seider needs to show a little more offensive upside to be considered better than Raymond.

I think point per game at European men's league is right direction. Nobody does that very often regularily there (there's one season wonders, but no one can repeat), and 19-year-olds have NEVER done it.

Also point per game as 18-year old at U20-level is impressive, when given the 1D role in German national team.

 

[r0bert8841]

I think point per game at European men's league is right direction. Nobody does that very often there, and 19-year-olds NEVER.

Also point per game as 18-year old at U20-level is impressive, when given the 1D role in German national team.

I mean the numbers look good, but most of those points are Seider just being in the right place and making a safe pass to someone that finishes, or a result of a good defensive play/turnover. And I am not saying thats not important part of the position, but that isn't really the offensive toolbox I was referring to. A dangerous shot or slapshot is what I would like to see.

 

[TheMule93]

I mean the numbers look good, but most of those points are Seider just being in the right place and making a safe pass to someone that finishes, or a result of a good defensive play/turnover. And I am not saying thats not important part of the position, but that isn't really the offensive toolbox I was referring to. A dangerous shot or slapshot is what I would like to see.

I mean, thats how lidstrom produced his points.

I dont disagree though, i'd like him to develop something resembling a slap shot. Given his strength he has no excuses.

 

[r0bert8841]

I mean, thats how lidstrom produced his points.

I dont disagree though, i'd like him to develop something resembling a slap shot. Given his strength he has no excuses.

Thats true, but Lidstrom also had a slapshot that he would bust out on the PP. Its not easy scoring 10+goals over 15 times without it.

But I think we are on the same page

 

[Henkka]

Thats true, but Lidstrom also had a slapshot that he would bust out on the PP. Its not easy scoring 10+goals over 15 times without it.

That hard shot is only thing Seider is missing. But in nowadays hockey, defenceman point-shots have lowest percentage to go in. Smart defencemen doesn't have to use them, you can be a threat in many other ways. Skate for a better spot, on the medium-sector, "buy" the better percentages and shoot with a wrister. Smarter hockey. Seider-hockey.

Defencemen point-shots will always need a good screener be to be synchronized with those shots, like Holmström was. Otherways those are useless. It's complicated to understand, but the shooting ability or power is not really a thing, imo, more of shot timing is the real skill. And that will need hockey IQ Seider's brains are full of.

And if you go to ask from a goalie, they all say weak shots are the worst for a goalie. They hate them, because they make them uncomfortable. They hate the "falling leafs" coming slow. Goalies prefer hard and linear shots, which are easier to see (if not screened) and against whom they have the endless routines.

As a smart guy, Seider can develop a "slow shot", always just thrown weak behind a screen (John Klingberg does these a lot) or offered for tip-ins. That's exactly how he scored his lonely goal in SHL last week.

Hard blasts pretty much belong in old NHL. They are just "ooh" -factor, for entertainment. And it's fun, and give some extra feeling, when a big bang goes in. People believe those are the tough shots to be catched, but they aren't any more effective than weak non-linear shots. Both have to be completed behind a screen, and that screen and screen/shot timing is the thing, not the shot. Defenceman has to have the eye for the shot timing.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

I dont think zadina’s getting as much love as he should , once this team starts going and better players are inserted in im expecting him to explode and be a big goal scorer for us, seider will be a beast but i dont know if hes a true #1

1- raymond
2- zadina
3- seider

 

[Ricelund]

Raymond was #2 going into his draft season. They were taken in similar draft slots and both have lots of upside. There are reasons it would be close.

For sure but Seider's more proven and would probably be Detroit's #1D if the season started tomorrow.

 

[FabricDetails]

Oh wow. I haven't visited this thread in a while. Looks like Seider got more votes than I thought he would. At least based on what I saw when the voting first started.

 

[Frk It]

For sure but Seider's more proven and would probably be Detroit's #1D if the season started tomorrow.

If Detroit agreed with that, wouldn't they have not placed him on a SHL team so he would be available for the season start?

 

[ShippinItDaily]

I would from what I've seen in SHL so far rate Seider as #1 over Raymond.
Seider looks NHL ready and 5 games into his SHL season he is +5 with 1+4 and plays on one of the best teams first pair and PP.
A future first paring of Seider and Johansson looks sick to be honest.

When it comes to Raymond, my view is that he is too lacking defensivly. He is given 2nd line minutes with two really good playmakers that helps him defensivly but still he is only +1 and from what I've seen the backcheck is not really that good as when he goes forward. He is not bad in any way, he is a brilliant offensive player but he will need a center or a winger that helps him unless he develops that side and then perhaps risk this offensive upside.

Raymond's defense is one of his best attributes. He was at the very top of this draft class for defensive impact.

Also, I don't think his linemates are great playmakers. Mursak, for example, is pretty fast and strong, but not very creative. He should be deferring to Raymond a lot more often to set himself up for scoring chances.

 

[Henkka]

Raymond's defense is one of his best attributes. He was at the very top of this draft class for defensive impact.

Also, I don't think his linemates are great playmakers. Mursak, for example, is pretty fast and strong, but not very creative. He should be deferring to Raymond a lot more often to set himself up for scoring chances.

That's the Mursak I remember. Not much hockey IQ, not on the same page at all with a smart guy like Raymond.

 

[Henkka]

For sure but Seider's more proven and would probably be Detroit's #1D if the season started tomorrow.

Like, if both will reach their highest ceiling, it's a decision between "Daniel Alfredsson" or "Victor Hedman". Both are excellent players and I would take that "Hedman" any day.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

If Detroit agreed with that, wouldn't they have not placed him on a SHL team so he would be available for the season start?

I'm sure the Wings staff see Seider as a future 1/2D with all the tools & a tool box (only missing the big slapper), they just don't want him to have to go through a down year in DET. In SHL he'll get more TOI & opportunity/PP1 etc, which lets him explore his offensive upside.

On that note, Veleno & Ras could probably play in our bottom 6 this year too, but why rush them, same line of thinking.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If Detroit agreed with that, wouldn't they have not placed him on a SHL team so he would be available for the season start?

What season start?

 

[19 for president]

What season start?

Exactly. Right now we don't even know if there will be a season. Him missing a likely 40 NHL games at best is not a good reason to potentially have him miss close to 2 years of hockey. I think he would have been a sure bet to make the team but if the NHL doesn't play until 2021-22 you are potentially losing almost 2 years of development time. At his age, kids need to play, and the SHL is a pretty solid level of competition. I mean if he were getting 5 min of playing time it would be different but he is already proving to be their #1 dman.