Reckless Hits with Skates

[Cams]

You're just being silly. You don't get a penalty just for having your stick up, you have to hit someone with it. I get your point, but be reasonable.

This whole thread is silly! Talk about over reacting! Sure, I understand we are Leafs fans and hate to see our guys go down with an injury, but really.... it was an unfortunate accident, nothing more, nothing less. Same as when Phaneuf got sliced a couple seasons back - where was the outcry then? And a more extreme example of similar accident would be Zednik or Malarchuk.

Even use the tragic Berard injury as an example - don't tell me (Hossa was it?) tried to carve his eye out......

Hockey is a fast paced game, played with potentially damaging equipment (weapons). Accidents (and really bad ones) are bound to happen.

 

[gtforepro]

This whole thread is silly! Talk about over reacting! Sure, I understand we are Leafs fans and hate to see our guys go down with an injury, but really.... it was an unfortunate accident, nothing more, nothing less. Same as when Phaneuf got sliced a couple seasons back - where was the outcry then? And a more extreme example of similar accident would be Zednik or Malarchuk.

Even use the tragic Berard injury as an example - don't tell me (Hossa was it?) tried to carve his eye out......

Hockey is a fast paced game, played with potentially damaging equipment (weapons). Accidents (and really bad ones) are bound to happen.

No, the thread is NOT silly. It's the moronic responses of everyone who hasn't even bothered to read OP's post and figure out the intent of the thread.

OP never said that it wasn't an accident.

I never said that it wasn't an accident.

Several people have said that it was "careless" or "reckless", but that it was an accident.

FFS people read the OP's post before you start saying that it was obviously an accident. Nobody is arguing that point. The question is, how come careless/reckless accidental high sticks are a penalty and subject to supplemental discipline, but careless/reckless hits with skates aren't?

Read. think, post. Please.

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

FFS people read the OP's post before you start saying that it was obviously an accident. Nobody is arguing that point. The question is, how come careless/reckless accidental high sticks are a penalty and subject to supplemental discipline, but careless/reckless hits with skates aren't?

I'd say that it's largely due to the frequency of the events. High-sticking often happens multiple times per game and can cause serious facial injuries, even loss of eyesight. The Kassian/Cooke hits, though they can also cause serious injuries, are much more of a freak occurrence; the timing of the hit has to be just right, the blade at exactly the right height and angle, and it has to come down with enough force to cut the tendon through the sock. I can only think of two such occurrences in all the years I've watched hockey.

I wouldn't be opposed to a penalty for such a hit (as infrequent as it would be used), but how would you enforce it? Should the refs be looking at a players feet when they go in for a hit instead of looking to see if the head was the principal point of contact? Should there be video review if a player goes down along the boards to see if it was a skate that got them? Should it be an automatic suspension (in which case there's suddenly a reverse in disparity between reckless sticks and reckless skates)? And where do you draw the line? If a player tries to clear the puck and it hits someone on the bench, isn't that being reckless/careless and constitutes an injury threat? Should that be penalized?

 

[sommervr]

Nobody is arguing that point.

I am arguing the point. I absolutely think the kick was intentional. There is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance in this thread over people trying to wrap their brains over the video which shows the guy leading with his foot.

I don't know why this is so hard to wrap your brain around. 10% of the guys in the NHL would skate over their mother's face to earn a paycheck. 5% are flat-out sociopaths statistically speaking. This means that one player/20 is not constrained by any notion of morality whatsoever. They are only constrained by punishment.

It has always been this way even in Tiger Williams time.

 

[Cams]

Careless use of skate penalty/suspension??? Is that what you guys want? Maybe if a player actually to kick someone (and there has been suspensions in the past for this), or stomped on a guy. But this play and the Cooke play - the only way to prevent that is for the player attempting the contain their opponent was to pretty much let him get by, or slow down enough where momentum wouldn't cause any part of the body to lift off the ice.

I can't believe anyone could actually think the player was calculating out in his mind that "...if I take this guy into the boards, I can aim for the very small part of their leg/foot that isn't protected much and I will cut them with my skate..."

There is nothing to review!!!! Suspend a guy for making a hockey play. Next thing, we'll be suspending guys for making clean checks that result in a dislocated shoulder or something. Careless/reckless use of shoulder pad or the boards......

 

[neksys]

I am arguing the point. I absolutely think the kick was intentional. There is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance in this thread over people trying to wrap their brains over the video which shows the guy leading with his foot.

I don't know why this is so hard to wrap your brain around. 10% of the guys in the NHL would skate over their mother's face to earn a paycheck. 5% are flat-out sociopaths statistically speaking. This means that one player/20 is not constrained by any notion of morality whatsoever. They are only constrained by punishment.

It has always been this way even in Tiger Williams time.

You toss around these completely made-up "statistics" as if they prove your point (the occurrence of all forms of psychopathy, including sociopathy, is more like 0.6%).

At this stage in the game, you are the one displaying cognitive dissonance - in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you are increasingly firm in your position.

You may think the "kick" was intentional. The vast majority of hockey fans - even ardent Leafs fans - do not. You may not agree, and that certainly is your right, but for your version of events to be true, Kassian:

1) would have to be a complete sociopath;
2) would have had to make a split second decision to decide to cut Bolland with his skate;
3) would have had to raise his foot at precisely the right angle to hit a moving target;
4) would have had to ensure his skate blade remained on target while making contact;
5) would have had to aim with remarkable precision, at speed, against a moving target, to hit just above the tendon guard but below the back of the shin pad; and
6) would have had to have been so skilled at this particular play that the vast majority of folks would have been fooled into thinking it was an accident.

Or the other version: Kassian got his leg up, as is typical on these hits (as described by PJ Stock), and happened to catch Bolland in the wrong place.

Classic Occam's Razor - the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

 

[Tanevian*]

I never played hockey, so I've never thrown a bodycheck, but most players seem to be able to throw a check without slicing someone's tendons. Why is it the Cooke's and Kassian's of the NHL that are doing this? Seems suspect to me...and he really led with his left foot. I'd like to see him get a game or 2 just to send a message that guys need to be more responsible for their skate blades. Make the socks mandatory too...

Ignoring the facts about skate cuts I'd say that players who hit more often have a better chance of an injury being caused by said hit, whatever that may be.

 

[Tanevian*]

Meh, maybe you're right. Keeping you're feet on the ice when you make a hit doesn't seem totally unreasonable to me, but maybe it is.

Perhaps mandate that players keep both blades on the ice at all times. I wish that could happen, with my lousy skating it would have slowed everyone else down enough that maybe I could have made the NHL. Well, as long as they also got rid of hitting and shooting.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

I understand some of you are homers and cant see through your colored glasses but why not judge Clarksons hit on Scuderi? Maybe that was on intentional as well

 

[diceman934]

Kicking is not accidental...He kicked Bolland.

 

[neksys]

Kicking is not accidental...He kicked Bolland.

Sorry, repeating something over and over does not make it true. In fact, all it shows is that you've run out of ideas.

Kassian might be a dirty player for many reasons, but this is not one of them. Save your energy for when something actually happens.

 

[diceman934]

Sorry, repeating something over and over does not make it true. In fact, all it shows is that you've run out of ideas.

Kassian might be a dirty player for many reasons, but this is not one of them. Save your energy for when something actually happens.

The same can be said for everyone who feels this is common, when it is absolutely not.....saying it is so does not make it true. Kicking is not common nor allowed and it was a dirty play.

 

[Preisst*]

I'd say that it's largely due to the frequency of the events. High-sticking often happens multiple times per game and can cause serious facial injuries, even loss of eyesight. The Kassian/Cooke hits, though they can also cause serious injuries, are much more of a freak occurrence; the timing of the hit has to be just right, the blade at exactly the right height and angle, and it has to come down with enough force to cut the tendon through the sock. I can only think of two such occurrences in all the years I've watched hockey.

I wouldn't be opposed to a penalty for such a hit (as infrequent as it would be used), but how would you enforce it? Should the refs be looking at a players feet when they go in for a hit instead of looking to see if the head was the principal point of contact? Should there be video review if a player goes down along the boards to see if it was a skate that got them? Should it be an automatic suspension (in which case there's suddenly a reverse in disparity between reckless sticks and reckless skates)? And where do you draw the line? If a player tries to clear the puck and it hits someone on the bench, isn't that being reckless/careless and constitutes an injury threat? Should that be penalized?

I honestly think the posters who pretend to think that this type of situation needs to be legislated are probably mostly the same folks who don't want fighting in the game. I think they have an agenda and I think the agenda is to eliminate hockey from the face of the earth.

 

[lLeafer]

I don't know.. It looked to me like he followed through with his skate, and usually the blade would be pointed the other way as you finish the body, not pointed in to the boards. Look at the Gagner play, where he "accidentally" broke his jaw, or at least tried to make it look that way.

Also, the whole "Bolland owns the Sedins" storyline kinda made me think someone on Vancouver would try to send a message...

 

[neksys]

I don't know.. It looked to me like he followed through with his skate, and usually the blade would be pointed the other way as you finish the body, not pointed in to the boards. Look at the Gagner play, where he "accidentally" broke his jaw, or at least tried to make it look that way.

Also, the whole "Bolland owns the Sedins" storyline kinda made me think someone on Vancouver would try to send a message...

I guess the biggest point against it being a conspiracy (and lets face facts, the whole "Kassian meant it" thing is a consipracy) is that it has been ages since that whole thing was even an issue. Bolland has apologized. The Sedins are long past it. Many of the Canucks that were around during the heat of the Hawks/Canucks rivalry have moved on. Kassian was in the OHL at the time.

The reality is that if Kassian was somehow skilled enough to make a surgical incision at high speed against a moving target, why Bolland? Wouldn't he have gone after a Leaf's star like Kessel? Or the captain, Phaneuf? There's way more nasty history there going back to the Flames/Canucks rivalry than there is with Bolland.

I think the conspiracy theorists are giving Kassian WAAAY too much credit here. You are suggesting that he is somehow like, the Wayne Gretzky of hurting people. When the reality is that he is a clumsy and sometimes reckless oaf who is waiting for his hockey IQ to catch up to the size of his body. If you want to punish him for that, fine, but lets not pretend he's some kind of wizard.

 

[neksys]

The same can be said for everyone who feels this is common, when it is absolutely not.....saying it is so does not make it true. Kicking is not common nor allowed and it was a dirty play.

Well no one here is going to change your mind. And you aren't going to change anyone elses, so its probably time we all just move on.

 

[sommervr]

You toss around these completely made-up "statistics" as if they prove your point (the occurrence of all forms of psychopathy, including sociopathy, is more like 0.6%).

At this stage in the game, you are the one displaying cognitive dissonance - in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you are increasingly firm in your position.

You may think the "kick" was intentional. The vast majority of hockey fans - even ardent Leafs fans - do not. You may not agree, and that certainly is your right, but for your version of events to be true, Kassian:

1) would have to be a complete sociopath;
2) would have had to make a split second decision to decide to cut Bolland with his skate;
3) would have had to raise his foot at precisely the right angle to hit a moving target;
4) would have had to ensure his skate blade remained on target while making contact;
5) would have had to aim with remarkable precision, at speed, against a moving target, to hit just above the tendon guard but below the back of the shin pad; and
6) would have had to have been so skilled at this particular play that the vast majority of folks would have been fooled into thinking it was an accident.

Or the other version: Kassian got his leg up, as is typical on these hits (as described by PJ Stock), and happened to catch Bolland in the wrong place.

Classic Occam's Razor - the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Your link does not support 0.6 %. I just googled sociopaths as % and got 4%. So one in 25 in general population and probably higher representation in violent pursuits.

There was no surgical intent to slice just a general intent to kick the ankle.

If I approach you for a handshake but instead kick you in the ankle it is not a botched handshake. It is a kick. This is a kick . Watch the freaking video and see what hits first.

 

[gtforepro]

Ignoring the facts about skate cuts I'd say that players who hit more often have a better chance of an injury being caused by said hit, whatever that may be.

Good point. Hadn't thought of that.

Perhaps mandate that players keep both blades on the ice at all times. I wish that could happen, with my lousy skating it would have slowed everyone else down enough that maybe I could have made the NHL. Well, as long as they also got rid of hitting and shooting.

I grinned.

The same can be said for everyone who feels this is common, when it is absolutely not.....saying it is so does not make it true. Kicking is not common nor allowed and it was a dirty play.

That's what I thought too. It looked like a kicking motion. If they can review a "kicking motion" for goals, why not on hits for supplemental discipline?

I honestly think the posters who pretend to think that this type of situation needs to be legislated are probably mostly the same folks who don't want fighting in the game. I think they have an agenda and I think the agenda is to eliminate hockey from the face of the earth.

I would like the game to be safe enough that my sons would like to play it. As it is, it's not and they don't and I'm fine with that. We'll stick to baseball, golf and fishing and watch the Leafs on tv.

I don't know.. It looked to me like he followed through with his skate, and usually the blade would be pointed the other way as you finish the body, not pointed in to the boards. Look at the Gagner play, where he "accidentally" broke his jaw, or at least tried to make it look that way.

Yes, I thought that too about the Gagner play. Personally, I think Kassian is a very intelligent dirty sneaky basket-case who likes to hurt people.

Well no one here is going to change your mind. And you aren't going to change anyone elses, so its probably time we all just move on.

Probably the most intelligent post in this thread.

 

[Goonface2k14]

Personally, I think Kassian is a very intelligent dirty sneaky basket-case who likes to hurt people.