Reckless Hits with Skates

[Goonface2k14]

Ok, so when it comes to high sticks, intent is never questioned, it's simply considered reckless play. Same with checks from behind. I doubt guys are trying to injure, but they need to be held accountable so that there's an awareness out there. We penalize and suspend for recklessness, in those cases.

So why, when it comes to skate lacerations on hits, potentially just as deadly or more deadly than the two aforementioned types of reckless play, do so many say "oh, it was an accident" And "he didn't mean it, so nothing you can do"? How silly is that?

The two most recent high profile incidents with skate cuts are from two notoriously dirty players who's careless play has cause severe injuries to their opponents prior to their skate flinging hits. I'm talking about that scum bag Cooke (we all know his history prior to the Karrlson tendon injury), and that dirt bag Kassian, who also carelessly let his stick fling into the jaw of Sam Gagner during this past preseason, breaking Sam's jaw in the process.

What gives, why the double standard? This Kassian guy, like Cooke, let his skate dangerously swing in the air on what was otherwise a routine hit, and people are saying its a hockey play. To me, it's no different than a careless high stick, or check from behind, but with much more serious consequences. If it happened more often and if it was being done by a sample size of players without a bad history, I'd be more forgiving, but to me this is an obvious reckless play by a guy with a reckless history, just like the poster boy for recklessness, Matt Cooke.

Makes no sense. Now I know how Sens fans felt last season.

Click to read more...

 

[DD03]

Every player lifts their leg when they go in for a hit.

/end thread.

 

[Igy]

It is not reckless at all. It is completely accidental and these things tend to happen when you are competing hard with sharp blades on your feet.

 

[Jason12]

It is not reckless at all. It is completely accidental and these things tend to happen when you are competing hard with sharp blades on your feet.

Completely disagree

99.99% of high sticking penalties are accidental but they're still penalties. "Competing hard with sharp blades on your feet" is all the more reason to have to be accountable for where that blade ends up. Should be something like 2 and a 10 IMO.

Im not accusing Kassian of doing it on purpose by any means...but you should be accountable for where your skate ends up.

 

[achtungbaby]

I didn't think I'd ever say this about PJ Stock, but he explained this one quite well on HNIC. It's hard to hit someone and/or pin them along the boards without one of your feet leaving the ice. There are 20 sharp blades skating around the rink at any given time, it's actually kind of amazing that there aren't more accidents like this.

 

[Stats01]

I don't know how someone CANNOT be accountable for their skates up. You do realize it is possible to hit someone without lifting their feet. To be quite honest I don't know why players lift their legs to begin with when going in for a hit. It may not be intentional but it is wreckless as ****.

 

[Stats01]

Every player lifts their leg when they go in for a hit.

/end thread.

why?

 

[Goonface2k14]

Every player lifts their leg when they go in for a hit.

/end thread.

So then its no different than a high stick when a guy goes to lift the opposing players stick but misses and drills the other guy in the face. Happens all the time, doesn't mean it's still not careless and dangerous.

And they don't have to lift their leg to check a guy properly. It just means they might be using less force when crashing into a guy along the boards, which is no different than being accountable on a hit from behind. They need to be aware of the situation as much as they possibly can be.

On top of all of that, skate blades have more potential than any other piece of equipment to do severe damage. Just ask Clint Malarchuk or Richard Zednik. They're extremely dangerous, they need to be policed as such.

 

[613Leafer]

It is not reckless at all. It is completely accidental and these things tend to happen when you are competing hard with sharp blades on your feet.

Yep. Its just a big coincidence that it was Kassian and Cooke for Bolland and Karlssons injuries. Wasnt a Sedin, or Edler, Hamhuis, etc. wasnt Letang, Dupuis, etc. it was the two players considered the most dir and reckless on their respective teams.

Kassians looked less reckless than Cookes to be fair. But 99% of players are very aware of the fact that theyre wearing skates, and keep their feet on the ice while checking someone, push with their upper bodies, and dont just fly into someone with their feet.

I absolutely dont think there was any intent at all. But I also do think its any surprise who it was that caused the injury, and that he is DEFINITELY less aware of his limbs, his stick, etc compared to your average NHL player.

 

[DD03]

Did you guys not watch PJ Stock explaining this during the 2nd intermission? Unless you want even more injuries, you lift your legs to explode into the hit. So the skate comes up because you can't you use your hands to finish the check, you have to use your knees.

 

[Goonface2k14]

Did you guys not watch PJ Stock explaining this during the 2nd intermission? Unless you want even more injuries, you lift your legs to explode into the hit. So the skate comes up because you can't you use your hands to finish the check, you have to use your knees.

Sure, Stock was showing how you lift your trailing leg when entering the hit zone with speed, because of your momentum going forward. But who decides on that momentum? It's the player. They decide how they're going to contort their body and twist it if need be to deliver a hit, as they're going towards the targeted players.

If they police this nonsense, perhaps hitting styles change, and players are more conscious of their legs and perhaps bring them together before the hit, or bend their knees and perform a hip check instead. I've skated and played contact hockey, so I know that taking a guy out along the boards doesn't require a skate to be in the air. There are definitely ways around this to make it safer for the players, and just because Stock demonstrated how the hit occurred doesn't mean that was Kassian's only choice.

 

[DD03]

Sure, Stock was showing how you lift your trailing leg when entering the hit zone with speed, because of your momentum going forward. But who decides on that momentum? It's the player. They decide how they're going to contort their body and twist it if need be to deliver a hit, as they're going towards the targeted players.

If they police this nonsense, perhaps hitting styles change, and players are more conscious of their legs and perhaps bring them together before the hit, or bend their knees and perform a hip check instead. I've skated and played contact hockey, so I know that taking a guy out along the boards doesn't require a skate to be in the air. There are definitely ways around this to make it safer for the players, and just because Stock demonstrated how the hit occurred doesn't mean that was Kassian's only choice.

It's clearly an accident. No player wants to injure another.

Either way, this would've all been avoided, we probably would've won last game if the Burke idea of bear hugging the guy into the boards would be allowed.

I don't think I saw the Canucks turn away from the boards once while along them, always turning INTO the boards which is just an awful idea.

I don't think you can penalize for such a thing. It's too hard to judge and it's clearly accidental.

My biggest beef is that the whistle didn't even go, but meanwhile Bolland is lying there bleeding from his leg and they score a goal.

 

[Steve]

I see where you are going with this but it's a hard one to call.

Players are not penalized for a high stick when they follow through on a shot because it's a natural motion. When it comes to body checking, it's hard to determine a natural motion b/c of boards, the defender hitting back, slipping, speed, size differential etc... The only way to guarantee you don't really come up at all is to hit low, which could result in knee injuries etc..

I don't disagree that they should be responsible but it's a hard one to regulate.

 

[achtungbaby]

It's clearly an accident. No player wants to injure another.

Either way, this would've all been avoided, we probably would've won last game if the Burke idea of bear hugging the guy into the boards would be allowed.

I don't think I saw the Canucks turn away from the boards once while along them, always turning INTO the boards which is just an awful idea.

I don't think you can penalize for such a thing. It's too hard to judge and it's clearly accidental.

My biggest beef is that the whistle didn't even go, but meanwhile Bolland is lying there bleeding from his leg and they score a goal.

I can't remember off of the top of my head but I believe they can't blow the whistle there until Toronto touches the puck. Can anyone verify this? I'm on my phone in some spotty cell coverage.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I don't know how someone CANNOT be accountable for their skates up. You do realize it is possible to hit someone without lifting their feet. To be quite honest I don't know why players lift their legs to begin with when going in for a hit. It may not be intentional but it is wreckless as ****.

Skates come up off the ice during a regular skating stride. This is absolutely ridiculous. I hate to be the guy to say "obviously you've never played hockey", but I find it hard to believe you've even watched a single game of hockey or worn skates if you expect players to keep both feet on the ice at all times.

 

[Kb21]

this is where the protective anti-cut gear, players have options of wearing, would help. but most don't like the feel so i guess safety isn't first.

 

[Joey Hoser]

this is where the protective anti-cut gear, players have options of wearing, would help. but most don't like the feel so i guess safety isn't first.

If safety came first, they wouldn't play at all.

 

[thewave]

Lol no player wants to see another player injured comment. You don't know what people are like. There is a chance both Cooke and Kassian did it on purpose, it's very rare to see others outside of these gorillas doing this kind of thing.

Just coincidence I guess, carelessness, not being mindful.

I won't call it either way but it makes one think.

 

[Gallagbi]

I can't remember off of the top of my head but I believe they can't blow the whistle there until Toronto touches the puck. Can anyone verify this? I'm on my phone in some spotty cell coverage.

It's a judgement call. The officials wait until the injured player's team has possession unless they deem it to be a serious injury. With no blood and it looking like a routine play, it's tough to blow that down.

 

[pcruz]

2 things bother me about the hit:

The play should have been blown dead because a player was very obviously injured on the ice. It wasn't a broken skate blade, it was a player who had to get surgery immediately afterwards. No excuse from the referees to not blow the whistle. Exactly the same as what happened with Tucker when his shoulder blade was fractured after an Alfredsson hit who went on to score while Tucker was lying on the ice.

The second thing is the thought that Kevlar socks would prevent these lacerations. Kevlar is a material that is many times stronger than steel in tension, but in no way is it impervious to being cut through. Bullet-proof vests are made of Kevlar, but they are not stab resistant because knife blades cut through it. Kevlar socks and equipment would reduce the chances of the cuts as compared to regular equipment, but they would not prevent the injuries from occurring.

Having said that, I don't think the injury was intentional, and as much as it hurts the team to lose an important player, we have been dealing with it all season long. We will deal with this one as well and play well through it.

 

[DD03]

I can't remember off of the top of my head but I believe they can't blow the whistle there until Toronto touches the puck. Can anyone verify this? I'm on my phone in some spotty cell coverage.

No. If they find a player is in serious problems, like a serious injury they are to blow the whistle right away. What if that's his neck? Do they blow the whistle? They need to blow the whistle.

 

[Jtabo]

What's all this about every player lifts their legs when going for a hit? I understand you want to explode up and straighten your legs, but you don't want to take your feet of the ice. If you lay an open ice hit and your feet leave the ice your suspended.

Edit: Not saying I think Kassian was being dirty or that the play was intentional, however, I agree with the OP. You should be accountable for injuries you cause even if it isn't intentional if the play is reckless. I see cuts from the skates very similar to high sticks as the OP. In the Gagner example, if he doesn't miss a shift, Kassian only gets 2, maybe 4 minutes, no suspension. In this case, if Bolland doesnt miss a shift, he gets nothing. But if there is a severe injury, a suspension should be handed out. Think about where your putting your feet.

 

[613Leafer]

this is where the protective anti-cut gear, players have options of wearing, would help. but most don't like the feel so i guess safety isn't first.

Bolland was wearing the protective ankle gear. Its cut resistant, not cut proof.

 

[bunjay]

2 things bother me about the hit:

The play should have been blown dead because a player was very obviously injured on the ice. It wasn't a broken skate blade, it was a player who had to get surgery immediately afterwards. No excuse from the referees to not blow the whistle. Exactly the same as what happened with Tucker when his shoulder blade was fractured after an Alfredsson hit who went on to score while Tucker was lying on the ice.

How does him having surgery afterward make it obvious in the moment that it was a serious injury?

How is it "exactly" the same as the Alfredsson hit on Tucker? That should have been whistled dead immediately first and foremost because it was a penalty. The whistle wasn't blown for the Bolland injury because it wasn't an obvious emergency and the Leafs didn't touch the puck.

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

It's happened twice in recent memory; it's an accident, not a pandemic.

I didn't think the Cooke hit was malicious or overly reckless, so I'm not going to be hypocritical just because it was one of our own players now.