Post-Game Talk: Recast Tippett

[Soundwave]

There's too many problems with the team to really bank on going on a run this year in the playoffs as a demand.

If it happens, great, but there are too many question marks in net, defence is too soggy, forward depth is still not where it needs to be.

They need to trade the 1st and bring back someone who can help the team for multiple years immediately but not expressly as a "win this year!" thing, just to keep getting better.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I’d trade Yamamoto sooner than later. He is actually worse this year than last year offensively. Getting an upgrade on him would be huge, maybe it’s Holloway? Lots of good forward free agents next year but this team also can’t link itself long term to another old contract. We either need internal improvement or trade for a young guy who can be good.

Yamo and Kassian have been huge disappointments this season. Tippett was on both players cases earlier in the year about not taking so many penalties so now they dont forecheck nearly as hard or effectively. Problem is for these players to be effective they play on the edge and will take penalties. Yamo has turned into just another small player who can skate but is nearly ineffective otherwise. Kassian is wildly inconsistent.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The issue is, we don't have the capspace to add a 2rw and find a legit goalie. Not this year or next year.

Totally agree. Holland was tap dancing on the head of a pin with the personnel holes and cap ceiling state left by Chiarelli (thanks Chia!). He got a fair chunk done this summer and he's gambled on some cheap stop gaps (most of which haven't worked). The covid cap freeze certainly limits flexibility further. It's a hard reality as we see the potential of what this team can be but there's no fast track to Cup contention. One thing this team can control is to work on their work rate and disciplined play. As pros, this is something each and every player can do. Elite Cup contenders make these sacrifices throughout their lineups. The Oil show flashes and continue to build toward greater consistency but still a ways a way where everyone is locked in and bought in.

 

[CycloneSweep]

As Oilers fans we've never seen a situation in cap era where we were the team opponents were gearing up to. Theres no comparison to it, or our knowledge of it. For the players there is no answering to that 82 games a season in a capped parity league. basically in games where the opponents want it more, and are more on, you lose some of those games. The Oilers are not a juggernaut capable of withstanding swimming against the tide always. They do it plenty.

As to the bolded I think in many games this year the Oilers have exhibited improved resilience, bounce back. Although I agree with you its not necessarily coming from the other players. I mean its pretty simple. This is a list of the Oilers skaters that have moved game results and have been the difference in games: McD, Drai, Nurse, Hyman. Its credit to Hyman he's actually climbed on that list. A lot of players here never really have. its the problem. But Holland extended multiple of those players so that they can continue to be well paid hangers on.

Its still a lineup problem to me. We do need more of the players pushing back and grabbing results and being the guy on different games. Better teams have guys that rise up. We don't have that aspect very much here. Somehow Calgary got a 17 goal Mangiopane all of a sudden. Its not specifically coaching based. Its a guy rising to occasion. Meanwhile we got a Yama in the exact same spot scoring 5 and people figure this is good. We got Benson who hasn't scored a goal yet and has actually had two threads this season specifically on him. As if he's even moving the dial.

i dunno, its a weird fanbase always picking faves and landing on themes. Usually its fire coach, fire goalie. We've had a lot.

Coaching absolutely helps the players rise up. Do you know that Gaudreau is actually really good defensively this year? He has been in for 3 5v5 goals against this season. Goaltending has helped but defensively he has been effective. Same with Tkachuk.

Yea it is in the players to step up, but having a good coach that your players want to play for and buy into what they are selling is a vehicle to help that happen.

 

[Soundwave]

Yamo and Kassian have been huge disappointments this season. Tippett was on both players cases earlier in the year about not taking so many penalties so now they dont forecheck nearly as hard or effectively. Problem is for these players to be effective they play on the edge and will take penalties. Yamo has turned into just another small player who can skate but is nearly ineffective otherwise. Kassian is wildly inconsistent.

Kassian, Yamamoto, Foegele, Ryan, Benson, Perlini, Turris (lol) all have not been good enough thus far.

Though I will give this to Yamo ... he's scored a couple of huge goals that probably led to wins.

Too many passengers. It's time to move on from Kassian. Bring in some cheap tough guys like McEwan and let Kassian's money go elsewhere.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Totally agree. Holland was tap dancing on the head of a pin with the personnel holes and cap ceiling state left by Chiarelli (thanks Chia!). He got a fair chunk done this summer and he's gambled on some cheap stop gaps (most of which haven't worked). The covid cap freeze certainly limits flexibility further. It's a hard reality as we see the potential of what this team can be but there's no fast track to Cup contention. One thing this team can control is to work on their work rate and disciplined play. As pros, this is something each and every player can do. Elite Cup contenders make these sacrifices throughout their lineups. The Oil show flashes and continue to build toward greater consistency but still a ways a way where everyone is locked in and bought in.

The Oilers are 2-3 years behind and the patient approach sadly won’t work. We are now in the “playoff team” bracket and it usually takes a few years of being there for the team to even be thought of as a contender. McDrai are at their peaks but the rest of the roster for the most part is playing like we are a rebuilding team.

 

[GOilers88]

The issue is, we don't have the capspace to add a 2rw and find a legit goalie. Not this year or next year.

Not as you currently see it, no.

But trades can happen at anytime and involve anyone. Never know what could change between even now and this year's deadline let alone in the summer.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Totally agree. Holland was tap dancing on the head of a pin with the personnel holes and cap ceiling state left by Chiarelli (thanks Chia!). He got a fair chunk done this summer and he's gambled on some cheap stop gaps (most of which haven't worked). The covid cap freeze certainly limits flexibility further. It's a hard reality as we see the potential of what this team can be but there's no fast track to Cup contention. One thing this team can control is to work on their work rate and disciplined play. As pros, this is something each and every player can do. Elite Cup contenders make these sacrifices throughout their lineups. The Oil show flashes and continue to build toward greater consistency but still a ways a way where everyone is locked in and bought in.

Your posts should all be pinned as an example of how to be a good poster on HFOil.

Eloquent, level headed, objective, factual, and to the point without being rude, argumentative or condescending.

You are the poster I strive to be but never will....

 

[CycloneSweep]

Kassian, Yamamoto, Foegele, Ryan, Benson, Perlini, Turris (lol) all have not been good enough thus far.

Though I will give this to Yamo ... he's scored a couple of huge goals that probably led to wins.

Too many passengers. It's time to move on from Kassian. Bring in some cheap tough guys like McEwan and let Kassian's money go elsewhere.

He has but he is being outpeoduced by Foegele and Kassian while getting spoon fed too 6 minutes again.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Soundwave]

The issue is, we don't have the capspace to add a 2rw and find a legit goalie. Not this year or next year.

Have to make room for a goalie, it's really just that simple.

 

[Soundwave]

This team even healthy would still lose to Winnipeg and it's not like Winnipeg is a great team, they have a ways to go. Holland needs to do better than just adding 1 high impact player per year.

Barrie in one year was a good add, Hyman has been a impactful add, but too many of his other adds don't bring enough to the table.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Maybe they should try the following for shits and giggles

Benson - McDavid - Hyman
Foegele - Draisaitl - Puljujarvi
RNH - McLeod - Yamamoto
Kassian - Ryan - Sceviour

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Kassian, Yamamoto, Foegele, Ryan, Benson, Perlini, Turris (lol) all have not been good enough thus far.

Though I will give this to Yamo ... he's scored a couple of huge goals that probably led to wins.

Too many passengers. It's time to move on from Kassian. Bring in some cheap tough guys like McEwan and let Kassian's money go elsewhere.

We agree! Hallelujah, tis the spirit of the season!

Yeah, time to cut bait with all of the above. Pains me to say this. I was and still am a big Honey Badger fan. Ryan, Perlini and Turris were all failed gambles to fill 3/4th line holes on the cheap and on the fly. Holloway and our developing forwards cant develop fast enough....

 

[Soundwave]

Holland needs to package the 1st with a player like Kassian or Barrie (move salary out) to bring in an impact player that can be here for a few seasons, not just a rental.

 

[Stoneman89]

I do like Tippet's comments after the game, and totally agree. This team has been told they are an extremely good and talented team, and they have a great record to back that up. Just show up and we win even if the play is uneven. But they still have holes and require more experience. Losing these games is part of that and then recognizing it. As they say, when you play bad, it can be masked until finally it breaks through, and the results start reflecting it. Same thing with playing good. Most of us have recognized this trend for a while now, but the few sensitive types have accused us of being negative and overly harsh. The truth is that some outstanding goaltending and unrealistic PP and PK performances have kept us in and won us games. It's been a while since this team played a solid, full near 60 minute game. Hell, even a 40 minute game. It's mirror gazing time, and we'll be much better for it. Also gives management and coaching an opportunity to get a better assessment of what they have. Tough times have a way of exposing that. I think we have a much better performance against the Wild on Tuesday. If not, maybe another arse kicking is what is required.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Coaching absolutely helps the players rise up. Do you know that Gaudreau is actually really good defensively this year? He has been in for 3 5v5 goals against this season. Goaltending has helped but defensively he has been effective. Same with Tkachuk.

Yea it is in the players to step up, but having a good coach that your players want to play for and buy into what they are selling is a vehicle to help that happen.

i would think its very predicated on goaltending and having what, an outlier crazy 9 shutouts this season. shutouts make any players defensive statline look good.

Too bad we can't order them up by the dozen here. You know at one point in season there were 31 shutouts. An average of one per team. Calgary had 8. Let that settle in for awhile whether you think that is a team or goalie predicated metric. In either case, or both, Calgary are riding outlier shutouts and overscoring to great results. Its not sustainable.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Maybe they should try the following for shits and giggles

Benson - McDavid - Hyman
Foegele - Draisaitl - Puljujarvi
RNH - McLeod - Yamamoto
Kassian - Ryan - Sceviour

Funny I was thinking that giving Benson a twirl on the top line might be an idea.

Not sure he has the wheels to keep up with McDavid but he cant be worse than Kahun.

4th line Scevior, Shore (he will be back soon) and Kassian. Ryan can sit for the rest of the season IMO. Kassian has tried LW and he looks awful on that side, cant take any rims up the wall on that side. He is locked into RW from what I have seen and heard from Tip. Scevior and Shore can play any position so they become valuable in that sense because of their flexibiltiy.

 

[Soundwave]

People kill me for bringing up Toronto, but they added Bunting (7 goals, 18 points), Kase (6 goals, 9 points), Engvall (3 goals, 9 points) for dirt cheap, compare their production to Foegele, Ryan, Perlini, Turris, etc.

Our management group needs to start hitting pay dirt on one of these cheaper finds once in a while, what they're adding every summer is not good enough to get the team to improve rapidly. Anyone can throw a ton of money at Zack Hyman, if that's all you're going to do, fine, but it's going to take a reall long time to fill out a team becuase you're basically just adding one good player per year.

Some of it is on Tippett likely too.

 

[foshizzle]

My apologies if this has been posted before. I just read the oilers bottom 6 last year had scored 11 GF 22 GA after 23 games. This year 9GF and 26GA. Completely revamped bottom 6- worse results…the constant- Dave Tippett. That bottom 6 makes that Bear trade look even worse. We can’t keep losing trades.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Agree fully. Tippet was an excellent choice. Just starting to wonder if he's served his purpose now though.

Last 5 SC winning coaches, with maybe exception of Trots were 'new idea coaches to me. I think we need to explore that soon.

I'm not sure about Berube. Seems to me that Blues team bought into the work boots, sacrifice, work rate required to chase a Cup. Caught lightning in a bottle backed by playoff secret sauce of excellent goaltending. Mike Sullivan ... meh. He flamed out his first head coaching gig and landed in a stacked Penguin team primed to win. Trotz was a recovered 'failure' in Nashville who required several kicks at the Cup on deep Caps team before finally having everything click with its personnel. Team work rate, sacrifice and buy-in by Ovechkin all finally came together for a chronic underperforming team. Cooper is an excellent coach. Helped as well by a franchise that built itself over a decade into a deep team with elites at all three positions, goaltending, defense and forward.

The common thread is work rate, sacrifice for team success, and unrelenting character and grit that moves high skill teams into a next level performance. Oh... and elite level goaltending.

 

[CycloneSweep]

i would think its very predicated on goaltending and having what, an outlier crazy 9 shutouts this season. shutouts make any players defensive statline look good.

Too bad we can't order them up by the dozen here. You know at one point in season there were 31 shutouts. An average of one per team. Calgary had 8. Let that settle in for awhile whether you think that is a team or goalie predicated metric. In either case, or both, Calgary are riding outlier shutouts and overscoring to great results. Its not sustainable.

Their underlying analytics shows they are strong defensively too, not quite as good as the amount of goals against, but they show that even without the goaltending they have been better defensively and offensively than last year. Only real change of note was the coach.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Read the thread, its priceless. @bellagiobob posted it in the OT thread yesterday.

Basically some lady burnt the shit out of her premade pumpkin pie and posted on Twitter blaming the pie company and not herself who was responsible for setting the oven to 375 and not "Satans asshole" as some poster eloquently put it.

So when we lose its Marie Callender's fault lol

I seen it but didn't read it or draw the parallel. I'll check it out.

 

[CycloneSweep]

My apologies if this has been posted before. I just read the oilers bottom 6 last year had scored 11 GF 22 GA after 23 games. This year 9GF and 26GA. Completely revamped bottom 6- worse results…the constant- Dave Tippett. That bottom 6 makes that Bear trade look even worse. We can’t keep losing trades.

I kind of predicted Foegele might have some struggles by going from Staal to Ryan or someone. I was hoping he wouldn’t. I don’t think the trade itself is all that bad, it’s just very hard for an offensive player to do anything without help. I’d like to see Foegele with a good center before I say the trade sucks. Bear does get to play with an incredible partner in Carolina.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

i would think its very predicated on goaltending and having what, an outlier crazy 9 shutouts this season. shutouts make any players defensive statline look good.

Too bad we can't order them up by the dozen here. You know at one point in season there were 31 shutouts. An average of one per team. Calgary had 8. Let that settle in for awhile whether you think that is a team or goalie predicated metric. In either case, or both, Calgary are riding outlier shutouts and overscoring to great results. Its not sustainable.

Show me a good goalie and i'll show you a good coach.

Calgary certainly won't keep up that insane defensive stat but they've built some solid foundations on good habits. The Oilers simply coast until they eventually fall behind or get a power play. Too many times this team waits until the game is almost over to start trying to win when trailing. It didn't work for them last night, it didn't work for them the previous game, and it sure hasn't helped them going back as far last year.