Rebuild/Tanking Thread/Tank Nation Squad GDT #11

[Judas Tavares]

I have no issue with what he said and in fact am surprised he knew that much about the scope of rebuilding and development. Usually when things like that or advanced stats etc are talked players have no clue "I just play." He sounds as informed as an HF poster, therefore I hope to see him in management when he retires in 6 months.

 

[Reddaye]

Sounds to me it's more of a response to the media talking about trading everything and everyone that isn't younger than 25.

In which case he's 100% correct. You can't just ice a team of rookies and expect anything good to come of it. We all know that.

There's also the fact that nothing is set in stone as far as quality veteran free agents even wanting to come here knowing full well what management's intentions are, and how the media can get out of control. We may struggle mightily to pull in any free agents. It's entirely possible. So in reality it would be best to hold onto maybe a half a dozen or so vets into next season.

 

[realgoodleafs]

It's very simple: This didn't work.

The extreme we're heading towards has been demanded by a silent majority for a decade only to see them muted at any sign of success.

Now that it's proven the current method completely set the organization back 5 years an extreme change of course is needed.

I'm not really interested in a veteran who admittedly quit on his team and its fans last week. Rather then play through pain, he believes a team outside the playoffs should only play veterans who are at 100%. That mindset is something that we don't want our youth growing up with.

Wendel Clark never took any games off because his team sucked. Neither did Gilmour, Sundin, Salming, or any other great Leaf who played on a mediocre team.

The fact Lupul can't see how getting younger should lead to getting better tells you what his agenda is. It's pretty clear to everyone but that locker room what they need, so who cares what their opinion of it is now? They had their chance to compete and stay together as a group. They failed.

Now we must move on.

Clark took plenty of games off due to injury.

 

[gamer1035]

How about he gets the **** out?

O wait we cant trade him cause he's always injured.

 

[GoonieFace]

He's 100% correct.

A proper rebuild doesn't entail the complete single season gutting that some people are advocating. They wont find you a single example of this even happening. Tear downs themselves take more than 1 season to do properly

It entails ridding this team of these poor excuses for hockey players. The majority of these guys do not give a cr%p, its evident right about now. And Lupul has no right to say anything since he has bought more fancy scarves than he has played games of hockey this year.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I dont really see anything wrong with what he's saying. We can't go full Oilers.

Yep.

You also have to see it from he view of a 31 year old player who actually loves Toronto and doesn't want to move. But if stays, He knows the playoffs may not be realistic in the next couple years.

 

[Morbo]

Probably just doesn't want to be traded for the fiftieth time in his career.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm sure if you ask most Vets(in a similar situation) throughout the league they would pretty much give the same answer.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Edmonton is the exception, not the rule.

Nobody is suggesting to role with a top 6 consisting of 4-5 guys under the age of 22. Not to mention this is ALREADY a losing environment. If you're going to lose, do it with cap flexibility, a deepening farm system, and younger guys on the roster. I didn't read the whole article because it just sounded like a bunch of hyperbole slippery slope nonsense.

Florida went out and brought in veterans (Fleishmann, Versteeg, Kopecky, Boyes, Upshall, Campbell, Jovanoski, Mitchell, Bergenheim, etc) over the years.

NYI have been very patient with guys like Reinhart/Strome/Dal Colle, not bringing up their top 5 picks immediately like Edmonton has, and instead have developed guys slowly, through the CHL then AHL, and are now seeing the benefits.

Columbus traded for guys like Anisimov/Dubinsky to eat up tough minutes, have JJ/Wisniewsky on the backend, and are only struggling this year due to injuries.

Calgary is primarily built around veterans, with only a handful of legitimate young guys on the team (Monahan, Gaudreau, ???). And again, aside from Monahan, nobody was plugged onto the roster as an 18 year old.

Yes, Edmonton has been mismanaged, rushed everyone, didnt put in enough good veterans, and cant draft to save their lives outside of the 1st round. We'll avoid the Edmonton format, it shouldn't be too hard.

NYI is a good comparison.

While we were trying to compete and be a cap team they were willing to sit back and draft high.

Now that their picks are matured, they sign our veterans to help take them to the next level.

So while they have Tavares, and get Grabo/Kulemin for free....we get Kadri and Clarkson and a bill for Grabo and eventually another bill for Clarkson and nothing to show for Kulemin.

Since they have picks in the system they can afford to bring in the Leddy's and Boychuk's hurt by the cap crunch.

 

[Vexed]

It entails ridding this team of these poor excuses for hockey players. The majority of these guys do not give a cr%p, its evident right about now. And Lupul has no right to say anything since he has bought more fancy scarves than he has played games of hockey this year.

Yea I get that but his point still stands.

I don't understand the Lupul hate, yea he's injury prone but when he is on the ice he plays hard and with passion.

Get over yourself with the scarf business. Hating because he dresses better than you

I'd still move him though

 

[ChillyPalmer]

lmfao

Lupul never dogs it on the ice, and works his ass off.

But because he's injured and handsome, he has no right to be angry about tanking.

This fanbase, I swear.....

 

[Morguee]

The thing is with so many teams up against the cap there will be veterans available in the off season. If Toronto can free up roster and cap room while picking up prospects and picks they can then bring on select veterans in the off season. He is right you need veterans to bring along the younger guys but this may be a great year to go dumpster diving for some.

 

[Trigger96]

That comment about "who are they going to play next year? draft picks?" is just priceless coming from him. He was a draft pick once given an opportunity to take somebody's job. A job like HIS. If a draft pick shows up and contributes to the teams success over a veteran then BYE BYE veteran, we can't afford you to not produce. we can't afford for you to be injured 1/2 a season for multiple seasons.

 

[Cor]

of the remaining 24 games, 11 are against playoff teams, and 13 are against non-playoff teams.

However, the Leafs have 4-5 games against teams like Philly, San Jose, Florida, who aren't exactly easy matchups.

 

[Sonny21]

lmfao

Lupul never dogs it on the ice, and works his ass off.

But because he's injured and handsome, he has no right to be angry about tanking.

This fanbase, I swear.....

Lupul never dogs it on the ice?

His one of the laziest and worst defensive players we have. At times, he even makes Kessel look like selke player.

When Kessel is a better defensive player then you, that tells you how bad he is.

I don't get the love affair with Lupul with most of the fans.

I would easily retain salary to get rid of Lupul.

 

[realgoodleafs]

lmfao

Lupul never dogs it on the ice, and works his ass off.

But because he's injured and handsome, he has no right to be angry about tanking.

This fanbase, I swear.....

People are just being emotional.

 

[GoonieFace]

lmfao

Lupul never dogs it on the ice, and works his ass off.

But because he's injured and handsome, he has no right to be angry about tanking.

This fanbase, I swear.....

It's not hard to give a good effort when you only play once a month

 

[rdawg1234]

Hey lupul, maybe if you guys didnt collapse every year?

I swear you guys make it sound like we went from being a playoff team to this bottom team, we've picked 5th and 8th in two of the past 3 years!!!!

of course players like him dont understand, and yes we should have vets to insulate the rebuild as you cant go the edmonton route here, but essentially all you do is play guys like Kadri at 1c, holland at 2c and then the new guys on the third line and top 6 wing etc.

 

[Durrr]

wait? what?!

Lupul admitted he rushed back to try and stop the teams slide before he was fully healed, but after a certain point where it was clear the season was over, he decided to shut it down and let himself heal.

 

[Smif]

I dont really see anything wrong with what he's saying. We can't go full Oilers.

Never go full Oilers.

 

[Durrr]

[/B]

Never go full Oilers.

lmao nice.

 

[Stand Witness]

Also trading away your UFAs in addition of Phaneuf/Kessel/Bozak/Lupul isn't exactly gutting it of all NHL talent. Using the exact same lines we would have something like this:

JVR - ______ - ______
_____ - Kadri - Panik
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson

The 4th line would be similar to this years, cheap UFAs. Ideally you move up Kadri to the 1st line and Holland to the 2nd. Those can both be arguably #2 centers are probably put into a better position to succeed than Bozak currently. Panik can stay on the 2nd line as a winger and you can either move Komarov up, sign a cheap UFA or add in someone like Leivo. Carrick likely doesn't have too much development left so you can put him into a 3rd line role. Rinse and repeat 4th line.

Gardiner/Rielly - ______/Polak
Gardiner/Rielly - ______/Polak
Robidas - ______
Granberg

First 2 pairing can be interchangeable. Keep Rielly and Polak together though. Bring in Percy to either pair with Gardiner or Robidas and fill the other with a cheap UFA. Won't be the best but we are literally icing just as bad if not worse right now.

Bernier
Reimer

If neither are moved than there won't be any debate. Most of this lineup is assuming only like 2-3 promotions from the Marlies (and a lot of guys that people wanted to make the team this year). This also doesn't include any possible pieces coming back in trades.

I'll admit this isn't that pretty but they can almost literally not do any worse than this year.

 

[Durrr]

Also trading away your UFAs in addition of Phaneuf/Kessel/Bozak/Lupul isn't exactly gutting it of all NHL talent. Using the exact same lines we would have something like this:

JVR - ______ - ______
_____ - Kadri - Panik
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson

The 4th line would be similar to this years, cheap UFAs. Ideally you move up Kadri to the 1st line and Holland to the 2nd. Those can both be arguably #2 centers are probably put into a better position to succeed than Bozak currently. Panik can stay on the 2nd line as a winger and you can either move Komarov up, sign a cheap UFA or add in someone like Leivo. Carrick likely doesn't have too much development left so you can put him into a 3rd line role. Rinse and repeat 4th line.

Gardiner/Rielly - ______/Polak
Gardiner/Rielly - ______/Polak
Robidas - ______
Granberg

First 2 pairing can be interchangeable. Keep Rielly and Polak together though. Bring in Percy to either pair with Gardiner or Robidas and fill the other with a cheap UFA. Won't be the best but we are literally icing just as bad if not worse right now.

Bernier
Reimer

If neither are moved than there won't be any debate. Most of this lineup is assuming only like 2-3 promotions from the Marlies (and a lot of guys that people wanted to make the team this year). This also doesn't include any possible pieces coming back in trades.

I'll admit this isn't that pretty but they can almost literally not do any worse than this year.

I actually expect this team to do better next year with Bozak and one of Kessel or Dion gone. We better make this year count draft wise.

 

[ITM]

Lupul admitted he rushed back to try and stop the teams slide before he was fully healed, but after a certain point where it was clear the season was over, he decided to shut it down and let himself heal.

You know, Gary Roberts came back from a serious period of injury...I'm ok believing that Lupul could remain with this club, and I'm ok with him taking the time he needs to heal and be a 100%. I've never gotten the impression that he hasn't tried, and to the contrary, when he's on, the guy's a house on fire...And for a player to eschew the typically media trained quotes, to come out and say, "I was born to be a Maple Leaf" is the kind of spirit I don't mind chirping with a cast on in our room.

Sure, if a trade proposal comes along, we move that beauty for what's best for the team. But if he stays, I think he'll do whatever needs be done to stay a Maple Leaf.

 

[Menzinger]

The thing is with so many teams up against the cap there will be veterans available in the off season. If Toronto can free up roster and cap room while picking up prospects and picks they can then bring on select veterans in the off season. He is right you need veterans to bring along the younger guys but this may be a great year to go dumpster diving for some.

Yep.

Even if the leafs trade say Winnik, they still have a chance to pick him up again in the offseason.