Really strong attendance numbers

[Crazy_Ike]

Why do you care? I have never, ever had the impression from your posts that you even expected there to be 30 healthy franchises in the first place.

He took a quote from Bettman out of context and has been throwing a tantrum over it ever since.

Just once I would like to see a positive thread here allowed to persist without being trolled to death by haters.

 

[Dado]

The NHL never ran out of suitors for Phoenix...

This is completely backwards. There hasn't been a single suitor for the Coyotes franchise. There have been several people looking for massive taxpayer handouts and a ridiculously lowball entry price, but in the two years the saga has run, there has not been one legitimate deal put on the table.

Heck, none of the "suitors" even got to the signed-lease stage, even with all the subsidy money sloshing about.

 

[jessebelanger]

Because I hated to be lied to as why we lost a SEASON. SOOOOOOOO many forget what was shoved up our butts as to why a lockout was needed.

You need to let it go, man. Move on..

As Fugu has accurately pointed out many times, there is such a gap between the top couple franchises that "60 franchises contributing equally" is simply never going to happen. Unless your plan is to contract the league down to a handful of teams (NOTE: this would be a detriment to the league, players, fans, and partners of the league) you are never going to see all franchises equal financially.

"30 healthy franchises" wasn't about having all teams drawing in the same amount of revenue - you don't see that in any professional league in any part of the world. It was about having 30 franchises that fans could get behind without worrying that they may lose their team (the way jets, nordiques, etc fans went through). GB and co's attempt to hold on to Phoenix and make the franchise work at all costs is their way of backing up that statement.

I don't understand how you can, on one hand, say OMG WE WERE PROMISED 30 HEALTHY FRANCHISES WHAT A LIAR!!

And then on the other hand criticize the NHL for trying everything to make the Coyotes work.

These two positions are completely contradictory - which suggests to me that you have not put a lot of thought into either one - you're simply spewing out the same old rhetoric.

 

[CC Chiefs*]

So if we pretend there aren't problems then there aren't? Man some of guys love GB flavor of Koolaid.

 

[ThisYearsModel]

Interesting thread. Some concerns though......what are these team doing to get all these rear ends into the seats? Extra promotions? What is the average ticket price versus the prior year? Since so much of the revenue in the NHL is earned on the backs of the fans instead of via TV revenue like the other sports, has the clubs' revenues actually risen? Also, how many of those "sold" seats are occupied? The NHL is a league where the real fans sit in the packed upper level, and the corporate seats are half empty. Just because the numbers look good does not mean that the arenas are full, because they aren't. They won't be as long as the owners with their "cost certainty" continue to charge $90 to $400 for seats in the lower level.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Because I hated to be lied to as why we lost a SEASON. SOOOOOOOO many forget what was shoved up our butts as to why a lockout was needed.

Then you might want to look up what was actually said (since you keep repeating incorrect statements as to why the lockout happened).

We've done this before, so I won't elaborate further.

 

[Adz]

Interesting thread. Some concerns though......what are these team doing to get all these rear ends into the seats? Extra promotions? What is the average ticket price versus the prior year? Since so much of the revenue in the NHL is earned on the backs of the fans instead of via TV revenue like the other sports, has the clubs' revenues actually risen? Also, how many of those "sold" seats are occupied? The NHL is a league where the real fans sit in the packed upper level, and the corporate seats are half empty. Just because the numbers look good does not mean that the arenas are full, because they aren't. They won't be as long as the owners with their "cost certainty" continue to charge $90 to $400 for seats in the lower level.

Nashville management is targeting the schools and businesses. I see a lot of blocks of seats filled by school groups and church groups, along with notes on the megatron about this or that business group in attendance. I know that Nashville has definitely been marketing to the opposing team, particularly Chicago and Pittsburgh. I don't know what sorts of deals are out there, but the amount of buses and t-shirts etc would indicate that these are package deals of some sort. When I left the game last Saturday night I saw no less than 7 buses waiting for Chicago fans. It was estimated that there were around 5000 of their fans at the game. Makes for an interesting atmosphere, and is always better if they're silenced by the on ice play. ;-)

Our attendance has been pretty close to what was stated, with the exception of a game that was during a snow storm. The announced attendance was much higher than actual bodies in seats that night, but they may have been paid for. My season tickets cost the same as last year, but I'm on a 2 year plan. My understanding is that tickets for others increased by anywhere from 5-16%, so I'm saving up for the increase. Concession prices have increased--a lot. I've noticed some ticket offers out there, but no more or less so than in the past. There has been considerably more advertising than in the last 5 years starting at the end of last season. I would say that the team profile has risen in Nashville overall, partly due to local management and no doubt because of the problems in the local NFL team along with sub par NCAA seasons for Vanderbilt and UT.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Nashville is doing well. In a lot of ways, it's a franchise to be both envied and emulated. They always have a payroll towards the low end of the teams in the league, the roster certainly isn't stacked with high end talent, yet the Predators are always competitive and qualify for the playoffs most years. Now they seem to be building a solid fan base.

Now if they would just get rid of "I like it, I love it!"

 

[Fidel Astro]

The NHL is a league where the real fans sit in the packed upper level, and the corporate seats are half empty.

This only applies to certain cities, not the league as a whole.

 

[Dogbert*]

... Of course, if you actually watch those teams' games, you'll see scores of empty seats. I've been to four Leafs games this year, and there were a lot more of them than I've seen in a while.

Attendance numbers have been artificially inflated at best - and outright fudged at worst - for a long time now.

 

[Adz]

Nashville is doing well. In a lot of ways, it's a franchise to be both envied and emulated. They always have a payroll towards the low end of the teams in the league, the roster certainly isn't stacked with high end talent, yet the Predators are always competitive and qualify for the playoffs most years. Now they seem to be building a solid fan base.

Now if they would just get rid of "I like it, I love it!"

Won't happen for awhile. It fits in with the good ole boy persona we've cultivated and even those of us who are not country fans sing it with gusto...just because it's ours, others hate it, and we like to push buttons.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I think many hockey fans in general love to push buttons.

Won't happen for awhile. It fits in with the good ole boy persona we've cultivated and even those of us who are not country fans sing it with gusto...just because it's ours, others hate it, and we like to push buttons.

 

[CC Chiefs*]

Then you might want to look up what was actually said (since you keep repeating incorrect statements as to why the lockout happened).

We've done this before, so I won't elaborate further.

So are you saying GB never said "cost certainty" "30 healthy franchises" "affordable ticket prices"?

 

[Crazy_Ike]

Is there some reason to believe that explaining context to you this time would be any different than the other three dozen times it's been explained to you and you obstinately ignored it?

 

[Gnashville]

So are you saying GB never said "cost certainty" "30 healthy franchises" "affordable ticket prices"?

I'm sure that He meant immediately correct!! That just as soon as the CBA was signed ticket prices would drop and all franchies would become healthy that minute.

 

[CC Chiefs*]

I know the context but it was said many times to support GB and his lockout.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

This is completely backwards. There hasn't been a single suitor for the Coyotes franchise. There have been several people looking for massive taxpayer handouts and a ridiculously lowball entry price, but in the two years the saga has run, there has not been one legitimate deal put on the table.

Heck, none of the "suitors" even got to the signed-lease stage, even with all the subsidy money sloshing about.

I consider suitor as a person who wants to buy the team.

And, correct me if my history is wrong, they never ran out of people who wanted to buy the team. Though for most at that history, the number was 1.

Looking at your post, I'm guessing that this disagreement comes from a difference in how we view the word suitor. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[DownFromNJ]

The NHL is doing very well as a whole financially - in the middle of the worst economic downturn in memory. I can't wait to see what happens when the economic jumps back into steam. I think you'll see a lot of franchises who weren't doing so well make a lot of money really quickly.

I think though that its worth noting that many of the NHL's least developed markets (Phoenix, Tampa, Florida, Columbus, Raleigh) were also some of the hardest hit by the recession and housing bubble. Its got to be even harder to build a following in a nontraditional market when half of your potential fans are being foreclosed on.

Their success despite the conditions, I would think, really negates the need for all the HFtalk about franchise relocation triage. The league is doing fine, there's no reason to change all that much up. Phoenix may be in dire enough straights to have to move somewhere, but even they aren't doing nearly as badly as many clubs ten years ago were.

 

[Giroux tha Damaja]

Tonight was Nashville's 6th sellout of the season. That sets an franchise record for the shortest time frame to reach 6 sellouts in a season even besting the expansion season!

The team is marketing very aggressively, but they are also really doing their best to use their marketing resources intelligently and get the most out of every dollar. Great interview with new Preds CEO Jeff Cogen in this past Sunday's paper...

http://www.tennessean.com/article/2...64/SPORTS02/Predators+Q&A+with+CEO+Jeff+Cogen

Thanks for the link. Good read.

 

[wjhl2009fan]

... Of course, if you actually watch those teams' games, you'll see scores of empty seats. I've been to four Leafs games this year, and there were a lot more of them than I've seen in a while.

Attendance numbers have been artificially inflated at best - and outright fudged at worst - for a long time now.

Not all but some teams its total paid attendance so while there are empty seats that does not mean there not sold.

 

[Gulvorn]

Not all but some teams its total paid attendance so while there are empty seats that does not mean there not sold.

And for some teams they seem to only report attendance of people actually there.

In Columbus it may say there's only 13k there but there seems to really be 13k there because most of the lower bowl and half the upper will be filled. Whereas I watched Florida that other night and I think they said attendance was 11.5k and there was almost no one in the upper bowl to be found and quite a lot of empty seats even in the lower bowl.

And we all know Detroit is averaging like 14-15k attendance. Half their lower bowl is empty nearly every game I've seen. I have yet to see what the upper bowl looks like though.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

And for some teams they seem to only report attendance of people actually there.

In Columbus it may say there's only 13k there but there seems to really be 13k there because most of the lower bowl and half the upper will be filled. Whereas I watched Florida that other night and I think they said attendance was 11.5k and there was almost no one in the upper bowl to be found and quite a lot of empty seats even in the lower bowl.

And we all know Detroit is averaging like 14-15k attendance. Half their lower bowl is empty nearly every game I've seen. I have yet to see what the upper bowl looks like though.

True, I've talked with Columbus President Mike Priest and he said once they fired Rogers Sportsnet's Doug MacLean they decided the damage he created was such that they would no longer report tickets issued, paid attendance etc. They would announce actual drop count. This was also verified through other sources. When I watch some very successful markets, the arena's appear to be no more filled than Columbus, yet those markets are announcing 18-19,000 per game. Conversely, when I go to games in Philly, the place has been really packed, except for the one year they had the worst team in the league. I'd guess Philly has 3,000-4,000 more actual people in seats than Toronto or Detroit most games.

Edit: I know a lot of Leafs season tickets are owned by ticket brokers and corporate buyers, so even if the seats are empty, MLSE got paid for them. I wonder how long this will continue if the ticket brokers aren't selling all of their tickets or corporate buyers don't have interest in attending.

 

[htpwn]

True, I've talked with Columbus President Mike Priest and he said once they fired Rogers Sportsnet's Doug MacLean they decided the damage he created was such that they would no longer report tickets issued, paid attendance etc. They would announce actual drop count. This was also verified through other sources. When I watch some very successful markets, the arena's appear to be no more filled than Columbus, yet those markets are announcing 18-19,000 per game. Conversely, when I go to games in Philly, the place has been really packed, except for the one year they had the worst team in the league. I'd guess Philly has 3,000-4,000 more actual people in seats than Toronto or Detroit most games.

Edit: I know a lot of Leafs season tickets are owned by ticket brokers and corporate buyers, so even if the seats are empty, MLSE got paid for them. I wonder how long this will continue if the ticket brokers aren't selling all of their tickets or corporate buyers don't have interest in attending.

The Leafs have consistently been one of the worst teams in the league the last few years, how is that any different then Philly's season in 2006? Season ticket holders don't show up every game when the team sucks; it's nothing new and it doesn't mean that those tickets wouldn't be sold had they become available.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

The Leafs have consistently been one of the worst teams in the league the last few years, how is that any different then Philly's season in 2006? Season ticket holders don't show up every game when the team sucks; it's nothing new and it doesn't mean that those tickets wouldn't be sold had they become available.

I'm well aware of the Leafs many shortcomings. I for one think its amazing that the fans put up with what they do there. If they voted with their wallets, they might force MLSE to actually treat them well. I can find plenty of hockey without the NHL in Ohio. The options in the GTA are almost endless. What do you think MLSE would do if they scheduled a Leafs game and no one showed up? What would those ticket brokers do if they lost their money on Leafs tickets?

 

[Confound]

Boston is doing great these past 2 seasons, considering they have to compete with the Celtics, the Pats and the Red Sox who are all competitive and always mostly sell out.