Realistically, Which Calibre Of Centre Will Matthews Become?

[joe dirte]

Nah, Laine isn't all shot. He has good vision and his shot opens up a lot of room for everyone else on the ice, making room for him to highlight his play-making abilities. The size is a big advantage, but of course, he needs to learn to use it a little more. About the only major weaknesses he's dealing with are his acceleration / foot speed, and positioning in the defensive end. He had marginal impact defensively in his first two years, so that's something he can improve on. He will never be Ovechkin, but he reminds me quite a bit of Heatley in his prime before he turned into a shadow.

Heatley is a great comparable.

 

[Narow]

Nah, Laine isn't all shot. He has good vision and his shot opens up a lot of room for everyone else on the ice, making room for him to highlight his play-making abilities. The size is a big advantage, but of course, he needs to learn to use it a little more. About the only major weaknesses he's dealing with are his acceleration / foot speed, and positioning in the defensive end. He had marginal impact defensively in his first two years, so that's something he can improve on. He will never be Ovechkin, but he reminds me quite a bit of Heatley in his prime before he turned into a shadow.

Good observations man, pretty much sums it up how i watch it too.

Id add that he needs to shoot more

Thanks for you well thought out and articulated comment.

 

[DanM]

Personality isent one of them jk jk

Real question tho. Is laine really only all shot and nothing else in your opinion?


On topic.

Matthews can likely become malkin level player meaning potential to be the best of best like malkin had at sone points. Altho like like crosby mcdavid is in the way.

Should be a huge season for matty.

Matty has the worst personality on earth lol at least in the media.

I think he looks like a player on a whole different level this year. Speed, shot, playmaking, hands, edges, 200ft game, etc. but I still want him to stay healthy and prove it. I won't just hand him anything, but he does have the chance to be number 2 player in the league special.

Laine intrigues me. His shot obviously stands out, but I just have not seen enough improvement in other parts of his game, but with his young age, and frame, he has that potential. I think he will become great, but the one area I see as an issue is skating (at least acceleration) stronger 200ft game, and 5x5 play. I believe anything else he can work on, just need to see it. Regardless I am still a HUGE fan of his, and I get up out of my seat when that pass goes into his office! plus when you hear him talk, you gotta love his personality lol

I still maintain the trio of McDavid, Matty, and Eichel are the top young 3 going forward (health permitting) and as a leaf fan I get to see the Sabres a lot, and Jack is just unreal, the little things this player can do, and the god given ability he already has, I could see him challenging as a number 2 in the world as well.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Idk why you guys are being so combative with NyQuil. He's a good poster and was complimenting an area of Matthews' game.

 

[hockeeyyy]

Idk why you guys are being so combative with NyQuil. He's a good poster and was complimenting an area of Matthews' game.

I wasn't? He got defensive and sarcastic with my reply to him.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Matthews as of today is already better than Kopitar. When Matthews is a 10 year vet, Kopitar’s accomplishments will pretty much be garbage compared to Matthews’.

Well, isn't that to be expected? He's a lot younger, and also a highly-touted first overall pick. Trophy cabinet is somewhat lacking (as well as team accomplishments but obviously you can't pin that entirely on Matthews).

Not sure if I'd buy that second part, though. We'll see in seven years, I guess.

 

[Skolman]

Heatley is a great comparable.

Ah ok let's get this straight.

Laine=Heatley
Matthews=Malkin


Am I right?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Hockey is a team sport, unless you want everyone to start holding McDavid accountable for not being able to lead his team to the playoffs.

It's ironic that @LeafsNation75 liked the above post, given the fact he brought up team success the other page in reference to Matthews making the playoffs in his first year while Ovechkin and Crosby didn't.

 

[Diatomic]

Well, isn't that to be expected? He's a lot younger, and also a highly-touted first overall pick. Trophy cabinet is somewhat lacking (as well as team accomplishments but obviously you can't pin that entirely on Matthews).

Not sure if I'd buy that second part, though. We'll see in seven years, I guess.

Kopitar got his first award in 2015 lol. Matthews is just entering his 3rd year and already has a Calder.

 

[McNuge]

Hockey is a team sport, unless you want everyone to start holding McDavid accountable for not being able to lead his team to the playoffs.

So team wise Kopi has been better and Individually he has been better as well. What argument can you make that Matthews is better?

 

[Sojourn]

Since you are from this quote apparently the great justice fighter:

"These attempts to selectively leave out important information to try to prop up an argument needs to stop. Really, it does. It's a garbage approach. It shows that you aren't interested in honesty, so long as it makes your player look better. "

then maybe we would point out that the team Crosby started out on featured 7 players that produced at o.7 points per game played or greater, one more than the Leafs. Of course nobody on the Leafs hit 0.8 or greater while 5 players on the Pens would be at 0.85 or greater.

The Pens problem was injuries but that roster featured Mario Lemieux, Mark Recchi, John Leclair, Sergei Gonchar, Zigmund Palffy.......

So maybe before you play your little card in the quote above, you should heed your own advice.

So, wait, we're supposed to say the team was better because there were players on it who could have made it better, but because they didn't play were unable to do so? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? If you take even one of those 60-point players off of Toronto, they miss the playoffs. Are you trying to tell me you wouldn't look at that injury as a difference between success and falling short? Bullshit.

If a player isn't on the ice to play, he isn't contributing, making the team worse. Yes, that Pittsburgh team could have been better than the results, but injuries kept hat from happening. The result? It was a worse team than Toronto. The only thing Crosby could do was get on the ice and play the best he could. Putting up 102 points in 81 games was doing exactly that. The only thing you're saying here is that Crosby put up a terrific season(far better than anything Matthews did), and yet it wasn't enough because of circumstances out of his control.

In essence, you're proving my point. Toronto was remarkably healthy that season, and even a short injury to a key player could have been the difference. Would you suddenly think less of Matthews as a result? No, of course not, and nor should you. You would simply say he did what he could, but some things are out of his control. None of this is an argument for Pittsburgh being better that season, or some magical argument that Matthews contributed more to his team making the playoffs than Crosby did. Crosby put up substantially more points. He was a much better player as a rookie. Pittsburgh's failure to make the playoffs has nothing to do with his play.

 

[Voodoo Child]

So team wise Kopi has been better and Individually he has been better as well. What argument can you make that Matthews is better?

The season before last Kopitar got 52 points, and people were saying he was washed up.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Kopitar got his first award in 2015 lol. Matthews is just entering his 3rd year and already has a Calder.

Right, and neither Kopitar (or Matthews, for that matter) was going to beat Malkin for a Calder in Kopitar's 2007 rookie season, the only chance he had to win one. Tough to really hold that against him, I'd say.

Kopitar has two Selkes and a Lady Byng. Nothing to sneeze at.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Kopitar got his first award in 2015 lol. Matthews is just entering his 3rd year and already has a Calder.

I wouldn't be surprised if Matthews wins the Lady Byng at least once or a few times in his career. He will put up the goals and points to compete for it and in his rookie season he had only 14 penalty minutes in 82 games played. Last season despite playing only 62 games he only had 12 penalty minutes.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Kopitar got his first award in 2015 lol. Matthews is just entering his 3rd year and already has a Calder.

Calder really doesn't mean much...

McDavid Crosby Price Lundqvist Doughty Seguin Bergeron Kopitar Hedman Karlsson Kuch Stamkos Marchand Weber Chara etc

What do they all hsve in common?

 

[Sojourn]

Matthews as of today is already better than Kopitar. When Matthews is a 10 year vet, Kopitar’s accomplishments will pretty much be garbage compared to Matthews’.

Yeah, no.

Kopitar out-produced him last season, and won a Selke. He also out-paced Matthews, except his pace was the entire season and not 3/4's of it. The argument for Matthews over Kopitar is one of potential. As of last season, Kopitar is the better player.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Ah ok let's get this straight.

Laine=Heatley
Matthews=Malkin


Am I right?

Laine = cheechoo I think

 

[nbwingsfan]

The season before last Kopitar got 52 points, and people were saying he was washed up.

People said the same thing about Ovi when he only scored 30 something goals one season... People say dumb things

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yeah, no.

Kopitar out-produced him last season, and won a Selke. He also out-paced Matthews, except his pace was the entire season and not 3/4's of it. The argument for Matthews over Kopitar is one of potential. As of last season, Kopitar is the better player.

So let's say for example Matthews scores 45 goals this season and Kopitar scores 35 goals which is his career high in a season. However if Kopitar manages to get more assists than Matthews and for argument skate he gets 55 assists and Matthews gets 40 assists. Are people still going to say he is better going forward or will some people change their opinion and go with Matthews? If they both get those projected numbers I said is a 90 point Kopitar better than an 85 point Matthews going forward?

 

[McNuge]

The season before last Kopitar got 52 points, and people were saying he was washed up.

Their entire team had an off year. Only people with goldfish memories would say Kopi was washed up, and he clearly proved that this last year.

 

[Sojourn]

People said the same thing about Ovi when he only scored 30 something goals one season... People say dumb things

Particularly since Kopitar has 828 points in 922 games. He had a bad season, but his consistency over his career so far has been rather exceptional.

Sure, scoring was up last season, so that season is a bit anomalous compared to his totals over his career so far, but that's not really an argument against Kopitar since Matthews played in the same league last season and put up less points, and was pacing for less points(9 points, over an 82 game season, to be specific). Combine that with Kopitar's superior defensive game, and he's an easy choice as the better current player.

 

[Sojourn]

So let's say for example Matthews scores 45 goals this season and Kopitar scores 35 goals which is his career high in a season. However if Kopitar manages to get more assists than Matthews and for argument skate he gets 55 assists and Matthews gets 40 assists. Are people still going to say he is better going forward or will some people change their opinion and go with Matthews? If they both get those projected numbers I said is a 90 point Kopitar better than an 85 point Matthews going forward?

You're asking what we would say if Matthews improves upon last season. That's your argument here. The answer is that, of course, it might give Matthews a better argument. At the same time, you'd still need to consider that Kopitar is a Selke level forward. Matthews, right now, is not.

So, the answer? It's not as clear as you're trying to suggest. Matthews might have more potential than Kopitar, but Kopitar can still be the better player right now.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

So, wait, we're supposed to say the team was better because there were players on it who could have made it better, but because they didn't play were unable to do so? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? If you take even one of those 60-point players off of Toronto, they miss the playoffs. Are you trying to tell me you wouldn't look at that injury as a difference between success and falling short? Bull****.

No we are supposed to tell the whole story. Your rules. Saying "the team is garbage" in comparison is flat out false and a lie by none other than you, the apparent champion of truth and detestor of partial facts.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Calder really doesn't mean much...

Neither do most awards that involve voting.

 

[hockeeyyy]

Particularly since Kopitar has 828 points in 922 games. He had a bad season, but his consistency over his career so far has been rather exceptional.

Sure, scoring was up last season, so that season is a bit anomalous compared to his totals over his career so far, but that's not really an argument against Kopitar since Matthews played in the same league last season and put up less points, and was pacing for less points(9 points, over an 82 game season, to be specific). Combine that with Kopitar's superior defensive game, and he's an easy choice as the better current player.

I mean, I get what you're saying because it puts context into a very subjective subject, but the issue some people are having is that Kopitar has never had a season like last year. Neither did MacKinnon -- does this mean by virtue of having more points that MacKinnon is better than Kopitar? I'd argue the opposite is true, but MacKinnon has always had the talent and skill to get to the level he played at last season. Crosby had less points than Kopitar last season, and yet I think it's unanimously agreed that Crosby is a vastly superior player than Kopitar.

There's little doubt that Kopitar is a franchise centre. When his career is over, he's going straight to the Hockey Hall of Fame. He's had a consistently good ~70 points per season career with Grade A defensive play. He's just that good. But when someone says, "Well, I think Matthews is a much better player," they are likely referring to his ability to take over a game and control a game in ways Kopitar can't -- for the exact same reasons Crosby and MacKinnon are considered superior players. I think the wording from some posters hasn't been very good and they need to be a little more judicious about how they contextualize their position.