Realistically, could Malkin have led a team to a Cup w/o Crosby?

[Machinehead]

Could Crosby have done it without Malkin?

Chicken or egg thing here.

Really helps having another player putting up 25+ points in a playoff run.

Again, on the Penguins as is, probably not. Their roster and cap structure is dedicated to having two all-world centers.

But if they never draft Malkin and distribute things differently, Crosby could absolutely do it.

The cap is the main issue at play here. The 2014 Rangers couldn't afford Malkin.

 

[Machinehead]

Under different circumstances, sure, he could have easily been THE guy on a cup winning team.

As far as the Pens’ three cup wins, they don’t get any of those without Crosby, though.

Exactly.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I feel like if you take 1 of the top 2 player off a lot of cup teams … chances are they don't win... it also means are they gaining ovie.

If you take Kane off Chicago... does Chicago still win 3 cups? idk I prob say not.
If you take doughty or kopitar off kings do they win 2 cups? not likely
etc. etc.

Now if your replacing Crosby with a diff player... that changes things pending on the player.

 

[BillNy]

Overall career value:

Crosby
OV
Malkin

Playoff performances/playoff career value:

Crosby/Malkin
OV

Peak level of play:

Crosby/OV/Malkin

Oh, I'm fine with ranking Sid and Ovie over Malkin. I just don't think it's *obvious*.

 

[end]

I don't think we'd have three Cups with Malkin and Bobby Ryan instead of Malkin and Crosby. Maybe one, if the GM was smart. Definitely wouldn't have taken Staal the next year, probably would've went with Toews to play the exact role he plays in Chicago. Now we're thinking long term Malkin and Toews down the middle, that's something different.

 

[BillNy]

Exactly.

Pretty crazy considering Sid still has never shown up in the finals.

 

[Varan]

Pretty crazy considering Sid still has never shown up in the finals.

as a goal scorer he has not imo

4 goals in 25 games is terrible, but 20 points in 25 games is pretty good

 

[BillNy]

as a goal scorer he has not imo

4 goals in 25 games is terrible, but 20 points in 25 games is pretty good

20 points in 25 games is incredible if you aren't Sidney Crosby!! A little surprised it's that high, though. Seems like he's always struggling in the finals.

 

[Varan]

20 points in 25 games is incredible if you aren't Sidney Crosby!! A little surprised it's that high, though. Seems like he's always struggling in the finals.

yeah recently he's been struggling cause he has 1 goal in his last 12 games

but overall he's good

 

[JamieG19]

I'm sure he's feeling very sorry for himself, crying himself to sleep each night due to his lack of drive. He's most likely comforting himself with 3 Stanley Cup rings along with a trophy cabinet consisting of a Calder, 2x Art Ross, Conn Smythe, Hart, and Lindsay.

Well, it does seem to bother him when he is way down in the rankings of the top players in the league.

I'm just stating a reality. When Malkin's career is done he won't be remembered as one of the games all time greats. Most will remember him as exactly as I said. A good player on Crosby's team.

If he had the inner fire to be the best and went to his own team and had succeeded, he might have been in the conversation as an All Time great. Maybe he didn't want the pressure (and therefore has no business being considered an all time great, maybe he thought he would fail so it's easier to stand in Sidney's shadow).

But he definitely won't be considered an All Time Great now. He's Crosby's side kick and the remaining years of his career won't change that.

Personally, I have more respect for someone like Sergei Fedorov than Malkin. It didn't work out for Fedorov (because of the stupid offer sheet system) and by the time Fedorov could get away from Yzerman and get his own team he was past his prime, but at least that guy had enough pride to want to lead his own team.

It's something Malkin lacks.

 

[Eat The Rich]

He’s one of the most influential and dominant offensive players who’s ever lived so I vote yes.

I can think of at least 100 guys better. :p

 

[Varan]

When Malkin is on, he is more dominant than any player alive.

Angry Geno is score.

angry geno is not more unstoppable than peak OV

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

People always underestimate Malkin and seem to always say he's in the shadow of Crosby. But I think the Penguins would still be an incredible team with Malkin and no Crosby. He might even have more points for all we know, might even be a challenger for Ovechkin for best Russian hockey player of all-time. But I do know he'll retire as 2nd best Russian player of all-time.

But one's things for sure, Crosby on Pittsburgh with Malkin makes them one hell of a consistently good team.

 

[daver]

20 points in 25 games is incredible if you aren't Sidney Crosby!! A little surprised it's that high, though. Seems like he's always struggling in the finals.

He has won the Smythe on the strength of his last two SCFs. Time to put this narrative to bed.

 

[daver]

Well, it does seem to bother him when he is way down in the rankings of the top players in the league.

I'm just stating a reality. When Malkin's career is done he won't be remembered as one of the games all time greats. Most will remember him as exactly as I said. A good player on Crosby's team.

If he had the inner fire to be the best and went to his own team and had succeeded, he might have been in the conversation as an All Time great. Maybe he didn't want the pressure (and therefore has no business being considered an all time great, maybe he thought he would fail so it's easier to stand in Sidney's shadow).

But he definitely won't be considered an All Time Great now. He's Crosby's side kick and the remaining years of his career won't change that.

Personally, I have more respect for someone like Sergei Fedorov than Malkin. It didn't work out for Fedorov (because of the stupid offer sheet system) and by the time Fedorov could get away from Yzerman and get his own team he was past his prime, but at least that guy had enough pride to want to lead his own team.

It's something Malkin lacks.

What a terrible post.

 

[WJCJ]

Let's say he was traded to a different team and prior to acquiring Malkin, they were a solid playoff team (i.e.: the Rangers from prior years). Do you think he could have led them to the cup w/o having Crosby?

Of course. It would depend on the team getting the right pieces to put together a cup winner. He led the Penguins to cup.

 

[SotasicA]

What if the Penguins had two Malkins and no Crosby?

 

[BillNy]

He has won the Smythe on the strength of his last two SCFs. Time to put this narrative to bed.

Nah, at very least he had a rough 2017 finals. Not sure what the narrative here is? Not saying it makes him bad, stuff happens. Just that the Pens won even when Sid wasn’t producing like Sid, in large part because Malkin rules.

 

[puckpilot]

Well, unfortunately we will never know because Malkin just lacked that inner drive to be the best. It's really a shame he was happy to be Sidney Crosby's sidekick rather than driving his own team.

Would Messier have the reputation he has if he had been content playing his entire career as Gretzky's sidekick? Of course not.

Yeah, we all remember how he traded Gretzky out of Edmonton and hated it when Gretzky came to New York... oh wait, that never happpened.

Guess Forsberg will be remembered as Sakic's sidekick. Same thing with Tavares. We all know the reason he went to TO is because he lacks inner drive.

Good teams win the cup. Good teams are comprised of good players. Nobody wins the cup alone. Guess nobody remembers Henri Richard as anything but Beliveau's sidekick and as someone without drive.