Speculation: Re: Ripping 4th line players, etc. Was it worth it?

[ponder]

It doesn’t need to be personal, but we do want the team to be as good as it can be. Replacing Martin and Komarov with Kapanen and Johnsson made the team significantly better. Promoting Dermott made the team significantly better. These were easy-to-implement tweaks that a lot of fans wanted, and they were right to want them!

It would have been great if Matthews, Nylander and Gards played better in the playoffs, or if we had another really good RHD. But these are not things that can be easily changed. Replacing our weakest NHLers with significantly better players that we had in the AHL were easy changes that were worth making.

 

[zeke]

Ugh, theres more than one player on on a team.. nvrmind no point arguing now

when you lose a series in the 3rd period of game 7, every decision counts.

 

[IPS]

when you lose a series in the 3rd period of game 7, every decision counts.

It all adds up doesn't it?

What if we dressed the optimal lineup (no Komarov) in game 1 and Babcock actually challenged the 1st goal (which guarantee would have got reversed). Game never gets away from us and maybe we win?

Every decision absolutely counts.

 

[frog]

when you lose a series in the 3rd period of game 7, every decision counts.

Boston outclassed toronto the first two games, it was not even close. Rocket Richard in for komarov wouldnt have had the leafs winning let alone johnson or leivo.

 

[Iapyi]

All season long some fans on this board ripped 4th line players like Martin, Moore, and Komarov. As well as Polak as the number 6 D. Was it worth it? All three above 4th liners didn't even play in the playoffs. Polak played as well as expected in the playoffs


Why spend so much time focusing on depth / role players when it's our key players the have warts and fell flat?

I actually think some fans credit themselves for getting Komarov moved out of the top 6.

What gives?

Don't you think that hating depth players is futile? They generally don't matter in the end to most teams.

Hating any player is futile.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I’m sure we will have another season of the same people screaming about their personal crusade in every possible thread as if there tantrum has any effect.

Was a fun season, people should just enjoy the ride.

 

[zeke]

Boston outclassed toronto the first two games, it was not even close. Rocket Richard in for komarov wouldnt have had the leafs winning let alone johnson or leivo.

game 2 they weren't outclassed at all, but a whole buncha bounces did go their way in the first period, most of them with Leo on the ice.

 

[stickty111]

game 2 they weren't outclassed at all, but a whole buncha bounces did go their way in the first period, most of them with Leo on the ice.

Agreed
Also It would have helped if our goalie could stop a shot in those 2 games, nevermind half the series.

 

[Morbo]

It's always worth playing your best lineup.

 

[frog]

game 2 they weren't outclassed at all, but a whole buncha bounces did go their way in the first period, most of them with Leo on the ice.

I think all of them happened when zaitsev was on the ice. Mathews didnt get any bounces, neither did andy. Neither did gardner.

 

[frog]

game 2 they weren't outclassed at all, but a whole buncha bounces did go their way in the first period, most of them with Leo on the ice.

I disagree with you and you disagree with me. Leo is most likely gone so we can move on but my opinion wont change i think he was instrumental in improving this team this year, he never scores and thats ok with goal scorers on his line, hes valuable in other ways... thats what i see, everyone else thinks scoring and offense is more important than me.

 

[Morbo]

I disagree with you and you disagree with me. Leo is most likely gone so we can move on but my opinion wont change i think he was instrumental in improving this team this year, he never scores and thats ok with goal scorers on his line, hes valuable in other ways... thats what i see, everyone else thinks scoring and offense is more important than me.

what ways are those? he has no speed, no offence to speak of, and things aren't going well analytically when he's on the ice either.

 

[thewave]

Would have helped if we played with intensity and heart. TB in game 1 vs B's is how we played most of our series. Bounces are BS excuses for people that don't know what they are talking about. The team watched the play and guys were all alone because of it to take advantage. But please continue your know it all conversations solidifying your know nothing status.

Leo this so and so that, blah blah blah, they didn't play with playoff intensity. Look at TB all over the B's now, with urgency, intensity, as if they want to move on or something.

 

[frog]

what ways are those? he has no speed, no offence to speak of, and things aren't going well analytically when he's on the ice either.

Extremely smart, sound positionally, wins puck battles, agitates, hits, wins draws, kills penalties, good hockey sense, makes safe plays, forechecks, backchecks, creats havoc in front of the net, provides leadership, clears puck without icing it, boxes players out in defensive end, makes nifty passes in defensive end, mentor to younger players.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Extremely smart, sound positionally, wins puck battles, agitates, hits, wins draws, kills penalties, good hockey sense, makes safe plays, forechecks, backchecks, creats havoc in front of the net, provides leadership, clears puck without icing it, boxes players out in defensive end, makes nifty passes in defensive end, mentor to younger players.[/QUO

Him 2 years ago. Even Babcock said there’s a time to move on from players

 

[Morbo]

Extremely smart, sound positionally, wins puck battles, agitates, hits, wins draws, kills penalties, good hockey sense, makes safe plays, forechecks, backchecks, creats havoc in front of the net, provides leadership, clears puck without icing it, boxes players out in defensive end, makes nifty passes in defensive end, mentor to younger players.

...this is Leo Komarov, right?

none of that is backed up by anything objective I'm afraid.

but whatever, like you said, the guy is gone and it's not worth arguing over any more.

 

[moon111]

A lot has to do with perception. Babcock considered the line with the top goal-scorer and center with the most assists as his 2nd line.
So Komarov was never on the '2nd line'. He was on the third. I also think fans don't understand line-up combinations when it comes
to North-South players and East-West players. Kapanen is the shining example of North-South. He'll blast down a wing for a scoring chance.
Kapanen doesn't make plays. He's a solo-effort player. What's great about that, playing with 4th liners isn't going to hurt his game. The bad
thing is, putting him up the line-up isn't going to make as big of an improvement. Another North-south player is Kadri. His ability to break
in alone is very good. His passing is average at best. One an easy play, I've seen him hit his winger with a pass six feet behind him. He's
not a give-and-go dynamo. It doesn't hurt Kadri's offensive game as much as it would a real give-and-go player. When Komarov was taken
of Kadri's wing, he scored more... and mostly against weaker opponents. His plus/minus started to fluctuation more. You started seeing the
real Kadri coming out. You don't see those -2 and -3 games when he was on with Komarov. Personally I think Komarov was a thorn in Kadri's
side, but mostly in Kadri's behavior. Komarov was constantly keeping him in line. By the time the playoffs hit, Kadri was in his mindset
he could do no wrong, he was free to do what he wanted... ...and suspended.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

A lot has to do with perception. Babcock considered the line with the top goal-scorer and center with the most assists as his 2nd line.
So Komarov was never on the '2nd line'. He was on the third. I also think fans don't understand line-up combinations when it comes
to North-South players and East-West players. Kapanen is the shining example of North-South. He'll blast down a wing for a scoring chance.
Kapanen doesn't make plays. He's a solo-effort player. What's great about that, playing with 4th liners isn't going to hurt his game. The bad
thing is, putting him up the line-up isn't going to make as big of an improvement. Another North-south player is Kadri. His ability to break
in alone is very good. His passing is average at best. One an easy play, I've seen him hit his winger with a pass six feet behind him. He's
not a give-and-go dynamo. It doesn't hurt Kadri's offensive game as much as it would a real give-and-go player. When Komarov was taken
of Kadri's wing, he scored more... and mostly against weaker opponents. His plus/minus started to fluctuation more. You started seeing the
real Kadri coming out. You don't see those -2 and -3 games when he was on with Komarov. Personally I think Komarov was a thorn in Kadri's
side, but mostly in Kadri's behavior. Komarov was constantly keeping him in line. By the time the playoffs hit, Kadri was in his mindset
he could do no wrong, he was free to do what he wanted... ...and suspended.

a lot of what you said was wrong though, to be fair

 

[Pookie]

Being critical of a player’s performance isn’t hating them.

Really? Hmmm.

In a certain other player thread, you seemingly fall on a different side of that opinion.

 

[Menzinger]

when you lose a series in the 3rd period of game 7, every decision counts.

And that’s the thing isn’t it. It’s about maximizing every little advantage, every little chance of gaining success.

Will say, after watching Johnssons First game, couldn’t help but get a bit irked by the idea that Martin got games over him this year at all. Or that some felt that Leo could not be replaced. He stepped on the ice a finished product in many ways, and certainly didn’t gain anything else bybyet a few more months with the Marlies

 

[Menzinger]

Really? Hmmm.

In a certain other player thread, you seemingly fall on a different side of that opinion.

I don’t think I’ve ever used the term “hater”.

Edit:

Not to derail the thread, but to expand/ i think it’s fine to like or dislike a player for whatever reason, but I think some reasons are more valid than others.

 

[MR4]

I find it so f***ing funny that the OP made a Kapanen watch thread to try to shit on 4th liner Kappy but then makes this.

But yes every decision adds or subtracts to our chances of winning each game, I find the people who said 'it's only the 4th line doesn't matter" so dumb

 

[JEI]

The issue is also they take up 6.5m in dead cap space. Maybe not as big a deal in years where the team has tons of cap space, but down the line these mistakes add up when the cap crunch happens. So it's a mindset that needs to be corrected when the big three get their pay days.

 

[frog]

No, thank god there's other people around here who don't blindly accept incredibly stupid lineup decisions. The fact that it took our coach as long as he did to figure out Komarov is useless and done as a player (let alone play him on the ****ing PP?) should be pretty alarming. The Martin choice is pretty meh - but the overall picture still stands. You even saw Pittsburgh give Ryan Reeves a chance but they eventually gave up on that idea because they realized he just doesn't fit the identity of their team. Was just as obvious that Martin doesn't fit our team identity.

We could have spent all year developing Kapanen and Johnsson, but instead our coach was obsessed with working in useless plugs.

And depth players don't mattter?! What planet are you living on buddy?

Playing half a year with the marlies is gonna do a lot more good in the long-term for both of those guys. Dominating in the AHL for the first half works wonders for young players confidence and I feel like they could have worked on rounding out their game more in the AHL opposed to the NHL.

 

[dominicmoore19]

Isn't this the same guy that ripped on Plekanec for a whole month?