Re-Alignment with Seattle

[MNNumbers]

Yeah definitely doesn’t appeal to the ocd side of me that wants symmetry, and the scheduling becomes a little muddy. The biggest issue w the West is the 10/6 split on PST and CST. With a MST thrown in just to make it that much harder haha.

Yeah. And, it's not really that bad, when you think about it. I think I'm going to do come checking in the Calgary board and the Edmonton board.

 

[mouser]

It might make some sense logistically to move Arizona to the Central since they don't observe daylight savings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember being thrown off when my friend moved to Tucson years ago and I inadvertently woke her up with a phone call.

Quick look at the Coyotes schedule this year:
November 27th: @ Minnesota starts at 6pm local
December 4th: @ Los Angeles starts at 8:30pm local

I suppose it's up for debate whether you'd get better ratings with a 6pm start versus 8pm or later.

The bad part is keep in mind Arizona is essentially on Pacific time 2 months of the season + the full playoffs. Then Mountain time for 5 months in the middle of the season.

A move to the central would make them the only team in the NHL playing in-division games two time zones away. With 5PM or 5:30PM local road starts in most instances.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yeah definitely doesn’t appeal to the ocd side of me that wants symmetry, and the scheduling becomes a little muddy. The biggest issue w the West is the 10/6 split on PST and CST. With a MST thrown in just to make it that much harder haha.

6 CST and 6 PST with 3 MST and AZ that flips from MST during the season to PST during playoff time. Not to mention distance. In the central when you have to play back to back with trave going from Stl to Dal after the game you’re getting into your hotel at 2am if you’re lucky. 3.5 hours from leaving the building to getting to the hotel if lucky. Bus to airport, board plane, fly, get off plane, bus to hotel. You’re lucky if you can sleep for that hour and a half plane ride.

 

[mdm815]

6 CST and 6 PST with 3 MST and AZ that flips from MST during the season to PST during playoff time. Not to mention distance. In the central when you have to play back to back with trave going from Stl to Dal after the game you’re getting into your hotel at 2am if you’re lucky. 3.5 hours from leaving the building to getting to the hotel if lucky. Bus to airport, board plane, fly, get off plane, bus to hotel. You’re lucky if you can sleep for that hour and a half plane ride.

Yeah that’s pretty brutal. Pardon if i sound ignorant but how does the NBA handle it? Is this an issue for them really?

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

LAK to the Metropolitan, problem solved

why would they move a team literally on the west coast to an east coast conference. not to mention it wouldnt solve a problem because then the metro would just have 9, unless of course you then move LA to the khl to keep kovalchuk happy.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yeah that’s pretty brutal. Pardon if i sound ignorant but how does the NBA handle it? Is this an issue for them really?

NBA same issues. Guys are icing their knees after the games vs the NHL guys riding bikes. Plus I think most nba games end earlier if they have the same start time as the NHL. 48 minutes of game time vs 60 in the NHL.
NbA recently extended their season so that there are fewer back to backs and fewer 4 games in 5 days. They wanted to end the resting of superstars on the road since some small market fans didn’t get to see LeBron and others.

Honestly I never understood why the nhl does not limit back to back games only if you are in certain cities. I don’t get playing SJ and Van on back to backs given there is a 3 hour fight involved.

The CA teams are fine to do back to back. Van and Sea will be perfect. Edm and Cal. Only fights around 90 minutes or less should be ok to play back to back.

 

[PredsV82]

People will disagree with me, likely very adamantly so, but my honest gut feeling is that rather than moving Arizona to the Central, they'll instead move Colorado back to the Pacific and Edmonton/Calgary over the Central. Barring relocations, of course. That being said, I don't think either would get more than four or five teams opposed regardless, so it'll be whatever Bettman wants, probably.

This was what I thought would make the most sense.

 

[mdm815]

NBA same issues. Guys are icing their knees after the games vs the NHL guys riding bikes. Plus I think most nba games end earlier if they have the same start time as the NHL. 48 minutes of game time vs 60 in the NHL.
NbA recently extended their season so that there are fewer back to backs and fewer 4 games in 5 days. They wanted to end the resting of superstars on the road since some small market fans didn’t get to see LeBron and others.

Honestly I never understood why the nhl does not limit back to back games only if you are in certain cities. I don’t get playing SJ and Van on back to backs given there is a 3 hour fight involved.

The CA teams are fine to do back to back. Van and Sea will be perfect. Edm and Cal. Only fights around 90 minutes or less should be ok to play back to back.

Actually, that could be an option potentially, emphasis on potentially, but if you did 4 team divisions, you could limit home and home games to divisional opponents only. A smarter scheduling matrix could be used to try and equalize travel time as much as possible. But that would require way more research than i can muster in one post

 

[Echo Roku]

3 years ago the NHL had no clue that Seattle would get an arena built. They could change their minds real quick. The Canucks will have a new rival in Seattle and the Flames and Oilers will join the Jets in the Central.

Colorado has already been a member of the Pacific division and has won Pacific divisions, don’t you remember? Not to mention the Coyotes have been playing in the Pacific for over 20 years and now, finally, have a team close to them without a rival, i.e. Vegas. Why would the NHL want to lose all that over the Avs being in the Central for 3 years. Not sure why that’s hard to understand either.

The Avalanche wouldn't have been in the Pacific for over 20 years. Don't act like its the matter of 3 years in the Central.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

The bad part is keep in mind Arizona is essentially on Pacific time 2 months of the season + the full playoffs. Then Mountain time for 5 months in the middle of the season.

A move to the central would make them the only team in the NHL playing in-division games two time zones away. With 5PM or 5:30PM local road starts in most instances.

This is why I think moving the Alberta teams to the Central and the Avs to the Pacific makes more sense. For In-division games, with the majority of the division on CT(whether standard or daylight) no matter what they will start no later than 8:30 PM for the markets in CT, and for the Alberta teams, no games will start earlier than 6 PM MT. It gets really iffy when games start at 5PM in October, March and April for AZ.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

The simple solution is to just disperse the Arizona Coyotes, move the Detroit Red Wings or something back West, and grant Quebec or something an expansion team. The Coyotes single handedly hold back the growth of the NHL and have been the professional sports version of someone on welfare who doesn't even try to improve their lives for the past decade. Every other team that has had economic difficulty has made massive changes to their organizations in hopes of turning things around, even the ones who eventually move out like Atlanta. And you have this joke of a franchise that just sits back comfortably draining every other franchises' resources via NHL's BS revenue sharing rules. Much like how the addition of the Golden Knights re-invigorated the NHL market and nearly single handedly caused a 5 million cap hit jump, the addition of a team in Quebec or Hamilton etc will give the NHL a big boost, and the deletion of the Arizona Coyotes would rid the league of it's biggest anchor for the past decade.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Move Arizona to the Central. Then relocate them to Houston

This but without sarcasm

<snip>
AZ is both MST and PST since that state does not observe daylight savings. MST from the time we Fall back in November until we spring ahead in March. So, they spend around 70% of the regular season in MST. Come playoff time, they are PST.

Who knows when the Coyotes will finally have their long term future resolved. They still want out of Glendale but want to remain in AZ, but there's no other building for them to play in their desired location of Phoenix/Scottsdale. So, something has to give sooner or later. Either they make it work in Glendale, or hope for some miracle that the Suns are sold to someone who would like to share or outright own the Coyotes and play in 1 common arena in Phoenix (this option is highly unlikely).

If the Coyotes were long term in AZ, I could see a scenario where the NHL opts to align the PST zone teams come playoff time together, thus would mean AZ and COL go to the Pacific, shifting Cal and Edm to join Win and the others in the Central.

But, all that depends on where the Coyotes are long term. Cause, I doubt the NHL wants a CST vs PST zone time in the playoffs if they are doing a divisional format.

Here's a better solution. Get rid of the Arizona Coyotes once and for all so we don't have to watch Gary Bettman spend another decade ramming a square peg into a round hole. We need to stop catering to the one franchise that's been a black hole for the league for the longest time and start catering to the organizations that aren't a complete cluster****.

<snip>
Arizona will STRONGLY prefer to stay where they are. In fact, it would nearly kill them to move. And, since I think the league is highly involved in the financials there, this is important.

So, of the Pacific teams and Alberta teams, and Colorado.... Zona has a strong preference. Seattle does, not that might not matter. Vancouver will have a preference. And, Vegas MAY have a preference. Basically, it's a wash, with slight weighting to moving AZ.

Central Teams:
I really can't see anyone STRONGLY prefering to play any road game on Pacific time. I know it looks like longer travel, but I don't think it necessarily works out that way. No Central team has a strong rivalry or hate toward Colorado, except Minnesota, and that's passing. Winnipeg might prefer the Alberta teams. So, Central to me is slight weight to Alberta.

Generally, the idea of the prior re-alignment was to eliminate out of time zone games, and one BIG focus was: Nothing in division 2 time zones away. Since, for a third of the year, Zona would be 2 time zones from the other teams, I believe that option will be shied away from.

So, I come down on the side of moving the Alberta teams. But, I won't be surprised either way.

Nor would I surprised if Zona moves before Seattle drops a puck.

Then just kill them already. It's not like this corpse of a franchise offers anything positive to the NHL as a whole.

 

[HisIceness]

why would they move a team literally on the west coast to an east coast conference. not to mention it wouldnt solve a problem because then the metro would just have 9, unless of course you then move LA to the khl to keep kovalchuk happy.

@tarheelhockey was joking.

Or so I think

The simple solution is to just disperse the Arizona Coyotes, move the Detroit Red Wings or something back West, and grant Quebec or something an expansion team. The Coyotes single handedly hold back the growth of the NHL and have been the professional sports version of someone on welfare who doesn't even try to improve their lives for the past decade. Every other team that has had economic difficulty has made massive changes to their organizations in hopes of turning things around, even the ones who eventually move out like Atlanta. And you have this joke of a franchise that just sits back comfortably draining every other franchises' resources via NHL's BS revenue sharing rules. Much like how the addition of the Golden Knights re-invigorated the NHL market and nearly single handedly caused a 5 million cap hit jump, the addition of a team in Quebec or Hamilton etc will give the NHL a big boost, and the deletion of the Arizona Coyotes would rid the league of it's biggest anchor for the past decade.

 

[Hynh]

Here's a list of Coyotes games that cleared 13,500 last year. 13,041 was their average so 13,500 should be a good limit to detect the popular games

Date	Opponent	Attendance
Oct 7	Vegas	17,125
Oct 12	Detroit	13,584
Oct 14	Boston	14,810
Oct 21	Chicago	13,777
Nov 11	Winnipeg	16,078
Dec 2	New Jersey	14,338
Dec 28	Toronto	17,125
Jan 12	Edmonton	14,077
Feb 12	Chicago	14,357
Feb 17	Edmonton	16,304
Mar 15	Nashville	14,527
Mar 17	Minnesota	13,735
Mar 31	St. Louis	17,380
April 7	Anaheim	17,382

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Where's that California lifeline? I see the first/last home games of the year and then a bunch of Central/Eastern teams and Edmonton. The narrative that LA/Anaheim/LV are the only things keeping Arizona afloat seems like a myth.

 

[mouser]

Where's that California lifeline? I see the first/last home games of the year and then a bunch of Central/Eastern teams and Edmonton. The narrative that LA/Anaheim/LV are the only things keeping Arizona afloat seems like a myth.

Not sure where you picked up the concept that LA/Anaheim/LV are keeping Arizona afloat came around from. Seems like you invented your own myth there.

The core issue on moving AZ from the pacific to the central has less to do with which visiting teams come to play at their barn and more to do with what time road broadcasts begin.

 

[Vegan Knight]

The bad part is keep in mind Arizona is essentially on Pacific time 2 months of the season + the full playoffs. Then Mountain time for 5 months in the middle of the season.

A move to the central would make them the only team in the NHL playing in-division games two time zones away. With 5PM or 5:30PM local road starts in most instances.

How many extra games does this affect for the other Central teams, though? They already play Arizona a few times a year. And scheduling can keep the AZ games in their CTZ window as much as possible.

Maybe ONE extra regular season game a year than now (a road game in AZ) at a different start time for Central rivals?

And with regard to the playoffs, there isn't so much of a better chance than there would be already for some Central team to draw AZ if they make it to the playoffs. 3 Divisional spots, 2 Wildcards. It would probably not be a big issue many years.

Having said that, if AZ was more secure as a franchise it wouldn't be a necessarily bad option, but considering Houston or KC could be on the table in 3-5 years then moving them to the Central makes even more sense. You have to favor the more solid franchises Colorado, Edmonton and Calgary over them.

You don't want to move all of Colorado, Edmonton and Calgary to new divisions in 2015 only to have to move them all again in 2020 with this and have to move back again in 2025 or something while also having to relocate a team.

 

[Mike Louis]

My guess is when Seattle enters the league, the alignment could look like this:

Smythe Conference

Northwest Division

Calgary
Edmonton
Seattle
Vancouver

Pacific Division

Anaheim
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
San Jose


Norris Conference

Midwest Division

Arizona
Colorado
Dallas
Nashville

Central Division

Chicago
Minnesota
St. Louis
Winnipeg


Adams Conference

Great Lakes Division

Buffalo
Detroit
Ottawa
Toronto

Northeast Division

Boston
Florida
Montreal
Tampa Bay


Patrick Conference

Metropolitan Division

New Jersey
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
Philadelphia

Atlantic Division

Carolina
Columbus
Pittsburgh
Washington

The first and second place teams in each division will play each other for the division title. The division winners will then play for the conference title. For third round, the conference winners would be seeded Final Four style with the pairing involving the Smythe Conference winner playing the Campbell trophy while the other pairing play for the Wales trophy. The Stanley Cup finals will be held between the Campbell and Wales trophy winners.

 

[libertarian]

What if you move Calgary and Edmonton to the Central so you keep the "rivalry" and then move Colorado to the Pacific?

As a older Jet fan I would like this. Since the Jets are now a much better team then both of the Alberta teams it would be nice to see the Jets do to the Oilers what they did to the Jets in the 1980's. Also both of those teams would have better viewing time on TV since all of their Central division games except against each other on the road would be a hour earlier instead of playing a hour later when the play Pacific teams. As for making he PO's since the Avs are currently a bubble team in the Central moving both the Oilers and Flames to the stacked Central division would only hurt their PO chances at this time. Lastly it would be nice to have other Canadian teams for the Jets to compete against again like the old Smyth division.

 

[libertarian]

The divisional playoffs are stupid. In the 90s it was top seed vs bottom seed regardless of time zone and it worked fine. The top seed should always play the 8th seed and then on down the line.

Once Seattle joins the league why not go with 2 divisions. One east and one west. Each divisons would play the team in their division 4 times and 2 times against the other division. Best of the 8 in each division make the PO's. This equals 82 games and has a better chance of great teams like the Caps and Pens or the Jets and Preds don't meet up in the 2nd round.

 

[libertarian]

I'd put the chances of the Calgary-Edmonton vs. Colorado swap as just as likely as moving Detroit back to the Central at this point. It's not happening. It'd be like putting New Jersey in a different division from the two New York teams imo. Calgary-Edmonton-Vancouver is a trio, not a pair.).

This is not true. The distance between Edmonton and Winnipeg is not much more then Vancouver. Calgary is a little closer to Vancouver but not by much. When flying you are talking about a difference of 10 to 15 mins. The central time zone will help both Alberta teams for on the road televises games. Moving both Alberta teams to the central makes sense once Seattle joins the league unless the league decides to go with two conferences only and scrap the divisional play which by the way makes the most sense. Once the league is at 32 teams it would be wise to just have 2 conference instead of 4 divisions.

 

[Go Wings]

Once Seattle joins the league why not go with 2 divisions. One east and one west. Each divisons would play the team in their division 4 times and 2 times against the other division. Best of the 8 in each division make the PO's. This equals 82 games and has a better chance of great teams like the Caps and Pens or the Jets and Preds don't meet up in the 2nd round.

That is literally what I proposed early except instead of calling them divisions I said 2 conferences.

 

[libertarian]

That is literally what I proposed early except instead of calling them divisions I said 2 conferences.

To me this makes the most sense. Probably why the NHL won't do it.

 

[Viqsi]

The simple solution is to just disperse the Arizona Coyotes, move the Detroit Red Wings or something back West, and grant Quebec or something an expansion team. The Coyotes single handedly hold back the growth of the NHL and have been the professional sports version of someone on welfare who doesn't even try to improve their lives for the past decade. Every other team that has had economic difficulty has made massive changes to their organizations in hopes of turning things around, even the ones who eventually move out like Atlanta. And you have this joke of a franchise that just sits back comfortably draining every other franchises' resources via NHL's BS revenue sharing rules. Much like how the addition of the Golden Knights re-invigorated the NHL market and nearly single handedly caused a 5 million cap hit jump, the addition of a team in Quebec or Hamilton etc will give the NHL a big boost, and the deletion of the Arizona Coyotes would rid the league of it's biggest anchor for the past decade.

Let he or she who would take a team away from fans first volunteer his or her own.

No exceptions, alternatives, or excuses. Ever.

 

[Quicklime]

I’ve got it!

The easiest thing to do is to have 3 divisions - one with 19 teams, one with 4, and the remaining 9 fight every 3rd team in the 19 team division with kebab skewers in a hailstorm for the right to unseat the other 4, maximizing rivalries. If no sufficient hailstorm can be found, a wolf will be implemented in each locker room every day until someone tests positive for rabies.

Do you like bath salts? We have that, too. Halfway through the season, about 66.33 games in, each backup goalie with a winning record gets abducted and black-bagged to a 5-Star restaurant in Cleveland, Las Cruces, Sebastopol or Dubai, where they try to destroy and/or consume as many inanimate objects as possible. Whoever gets last place gets to box Gary Bettman. If anyone can not afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to them by a court of law.

The regular season AND playoff sched formats would naturally simplify well enough before two minutes into the 3rd period of game 122 when everyone just says f*** it and calls it a day because of the blood-loss:

Regular season:

Playoffs:

Addition mascot battle royale to the death in a wading pool of spoiled bisque - preferably langoustine:

 

[Goldenshark]

The Avalanche wouldn't have been in the Pacific for over 20 years. Don't act like its the matter of 3 years in the Central.

I’m not sure I follow you here, I said the Coyotes NOT Colorado have been in the Pacific for over 20 years. The previous post I was responding to was acting like the Avs have this huge thing going in the Central which they’ve only been in for 3 years as opposed to the Coyotes who’ve been in the Pacific for more than 20.

It’s all about time zones with the new division alignment and the Coyotes are in the Pacific time zone for half the year and are much closer to Vegas and the Cali teams who will oppose any such move.