RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET)

[GTA]

This is a dumb way to get this thread derailed. Lidstrom was not better than Orr lol.

I dont think the Weber comparison is good at all for Seider either. Weber is a mean defense first guy and thats about the only comparison. Webers not close to the skater Seider is, Webers offense relies on his cannon of a slapshot, Seider barely takes slap shots. Theyre both good defensively and play with a mean streak thats about it

Weber in his prime was elite defensively - like top 2-3 in the league. I don't think Seider is a realistic comparison to that.

 

[newfy]

Weber in his prime was elite defensively - like top 2-3 in the league. I don't think Seider is a realistic comparison to that.

I think thats about the only parts of their games that are comparable honestly. I think the way Seider has been playing as an 18 year old in the AHL, he looks like he could be a top 5ish defensive dman in his prime. The real difference is that Seider wont be putting up 20 goals and 50 points while he does it. Obviously Seider has a long way to go for that, but is there any dmen prospects right now that really project to have a better defensive game than him? I would listen to arguments that Byram and some others (a list of maybe 4 guys) are better all around dmen prospects because they bring more offense potentially, but whose better defensively?

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

You think a more mobile Shea Weber is better than Orr? Current Shea Weber has never won a single norris...and only being nominated 3 times. A more mobile Shea probably wins a few norris' but like, he would have to become waaay more mobile to enter the discussion of top 10 dmen ever.

skating is really the only weakness Weber ever had. And he was elite defensively in spite of his skating. With elite skating he might be the best deee free naive defenseman ever. Lidstrom I think is currently that, but he didn’t have the physicality Weber did.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Someone needs to remake this video with "Du Hast" by Rammstein instead.

 

[Christien]

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

30 minutes? Wow. That's a pretty comprehensive highlights package for a single season. Especially for a two-way guy.

 

[newfy]

30 minutes? Wow. That's a pretty comprehensive highlights package for a single season. Especially for a two-way guy.

Theres a lot of stuff that looks like his offense could be better at the next level, he actually skates with the puck really well and can make moves but from the blue line in doesnt seem to have a killer instinct to really bury the puck.

A good ten mins of that highlight reel is just him crushing guys though. Pretty great that the wings drafted him just as soon as Kronwall was on his way out. People are gonna hate Seider

 

[nbwingsfan]

Theres a lot of stuff that looks like his offense could be better at the next level, he actually skates with the puck really well and can make moves but from the blue line in doesnt seem to have a killer instinct to really bury the puck.

A good ten mins of that highlight reel is just him crushing guys though. Pretty great that the wings drafted him just as soon as Kronwall was on his way out. People are gonna hate Seider

Bang on.

He’s a very intriguing prospect that everyone should be paying attention to. Does he end up more like Brooks Orpik in his prime or Weber? I’m really hoping he works on his confidence in the offensive zone as well as his shot in the off season as that’s what’s going to decide if he’s a top pair D or a great physical/shutdown top 4D

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Bang on.

He’s a very intriguing prospect that everyone should be paying attention to. Does he end up more like Brooks Orpik in his prime or Weber? I’m really hoping he works on his confidence in the offensive zone as well as his shot in the off season as that’s what’s going to decide if he’s a top pair D or a great physical/shutdown top 4D

I think he doesn't become either of them. Both Weber and Orpik wish they could skate as well as Seider. He's better with the puck than Orpik ever was, nor does he have the same cannon of a shot that has made Weber so effective offensively. I don't like to talk in absolutes when I speak about prospects but in the over 20 years I've been following NHL prospects there have been only a handful of guys that I would say were sure-fire top two defenseman, and Seider looks very much like a top pair guy to me.

I still think Seider becomes more like this guy.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I think he doesn't become either of them. Both Weber and Orpik wish they could skate as well as Seider. He's better with the puck than Orpik ever was, nor does he have the same cannon of a shot that has made Weber so effective offensively. I don't like to talk in absolutes when I speak about prospects but in the over 20 years I've been following NHL prospects there have been only a handful of guys that I would say were sure-fire top two defenseman, and Seider looks very much like a top pair guy to me.

I still think Seider becomes more like this guy.

I’m still not sure I see the offensive tools to be a top pair guy just yet, although could easily change as he’s shown glimpses. Most of points came on routine set ups instead of true offensive IQ plays.

Getting a minute munching top 4D who punished guys with the 6th overall pick is perfectly fine with me as well. Anything after that is just a bonus.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I’m still not sure I see the offensive tools to be a top pair guy just yet, although could easily change as he’s shown glimpses. Most of points came on routine set ups instead of true offensive IQ plays.

Getting a minute munching top 4D who punished guys with the 6th overall pick is perfectly fine with me as well. Anything after that is just a bonus.

To be fair, most NHL defensemen earn their points through routine setups instead of offensive IQ plays. Hell, Nick Lidstrom, Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer probably got at least half of their career points on routine plays. I think the offensive tools will come as he gets older and the teams he plays on get better. Grand Rapids would do well with a coaching change that teaches players an actual system instead of dump-and-dig. (Detroit could do with the same.)
I also think that if/when Seider develops a slap shot he will become more lethal from the offensive blueline. He's already displayed an ability to get his wrist shot through traffic but with his height and power behind a harder shot I think it would allow him to become a 10 goal/20 assist type defenseman.

 

[nbwingsfan]

To be fair, most NHL defensemen earn their points through routine setups instead of offensive IQ plays. Hell, Nick Lidstrom, Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer probably got at least half of their career points on routine plays. I think the offensive tools will come as he gets older and the teams he plays on get better. Grand Rapids would do well with a coaching change that teaches players an actual system instead of dump-and-dig. (Detroit could do with the same.)
I also think that if/when Seider develops a slap shot he will become more lethal from the offensive blueline. He's already displayed an ability to get his wrist shot through traffic but with his height and power behind a harder shot I think it would allow him to become a 10 goal/20 assist type defenseman.

I agree with those totals. I think he settles in as a regular 30ish point type D but focuses more on shutdown than offense

 

[newfy]

I agree with those totals. I think he settles in as a regular 30ish point type D but focuses more on shutdown than offense

I could see 30-35 points pretty easily if Detroit has talent up front for him to play with. With his defensive game that much production is definitely a top pairing guy.

I think the Ohlund comparison is actually a really good one. I think he was pretty underrated while he was playing and is Seider hits that level there wont be a single upset wings fan

 

[MBH]

Bang on.

He’s a very intriguing prospect that everyone should be paying attention to. Does he end up more like Brooks Orpik in his prime or Weber? I’m really hoping he works on his confidence in the offensive zone as well as his shot in the off season as that’s what’s going to decide if he’s a top pair D or a great physical/shutdown top 4D

I think he reminds me of a faster Kjell Samuelsson with more polish to his game.
Maybe in the mold of Rod Langway. Or Parayko.

 

[MBH]

I could see 30-35 points pretty easily if Detroit has talent up front for him to play with. With his defensive game that much production is definitely a top pairing guy.

I think the Ohlund comparison is actually a really good one. I think he was pretty underrated while he was playing and is Seider hits that level there wont be a single upset wings fan

It depends on his usage. But I don't see 35 points unless he's getting lots of PP time.
And with Hronek already scoring at nearly 40-point pace this year from the right side, I really don't see the need for Seider to be a PP unit guy.

I see him as a really nice minute-eating, PK guy who doesn't put up huge stats, but impresses with good two-way play and helps the team in transition.
He's probably never going to be elite from the offensive blueline and up.

If Cholowski ever gets his game together, I can see Seider being a great partner for him. Or maybe Johansson, if he ever comes over.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I see him as a solid 2/3, Nothing wrong with that.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It depends on his usage. But I don't see 35 points unless he's getting lots of PP time.
And with Hronek already scoring at nearly 40-point pace this year from the right side, I really don't see the need for Seider to be a PP unit guy.

I see him as a really nice minute-eating, PK guy who doesn't put up huge stats, but impresses with good two-way play and helps the team in transition.
He's probably never going to be elite from the offensive blueline and up.

If Cholowski ever gets his game together, I can see Seider being a great partner for him. Or maybe Johansson, if he ever comes over.

Watch how Seider controls the offensive blueline in GR when the other team is trying to clear the zone. Without making dangerous pinches ala Brendan Smith/Dennis Cholowski he's been able to keep the zone in GR and backpedal with the puck on the blueline until he can make a pass to an open man like a 10 year vet. He won't be the primary weapon on the point on the PP like Lidstrom was but his ability to maintain the zone and keep possession will be invaluable at the next level in the same way.

EDIT: I only remember Rod Langway as an old man in the early/mid 90's so I looked him up. He was also taken #6 overall. (In the WHA)

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He reminds me of Jacob Trouba. Big, physical defenseman whose pretty good defensively, although not elite. Very good skating ability with the puck, can move the puck, has average puck skills and can really shoot the puck, but lacks the high end vision and stick handling to be a PP1 guy in the NHL. A 30-40 point guy per season, PK1, likely PP2, and somewhere between a 1D and 2D. And before anyone says Seider doesn’t have a good shot, players his size usually develop good shots. He’ll get stronger and learn how to utilize his power to wire the puck. I suspect in a few years his shooting will have surpassed his passing.

 

[Tetsuo]

He reminds me of Jacob Trouba. Big, physical defenseman whose pretty good defensively, although not elite. Very good skating ability with the puck, can move the puck, has average puck skills and can really shoot the puck, but lacks the high end vision and stick handling to be a PP1 guy in the NHL. A 30-40 point guy per season, PK1, likely PP2, and somewhere between a 1D and 2D. And before anyone says Seider doesn’t have a good shot, players his size usually develop good shots. He’ll get stronger and learn how to utilize his power to wire the puck. I suspect in a few years his shooting will have surpassed his passing.

Most forget that he is still really young. I don't think he will ever develop a Weber-level cannon, but with the power he displays on his wrister I would not at all be surprised if his slap shot becomes a strength. I think he going to be a top 2 two-way defender and will have plenty of highlight reel hits.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think he's actually quite a good stickhandler. At the prospects tournament, he was dangling guys left and right. Maybe he just needs to get more confidence in that side of his game.

In general, he seems to have a very offensive streak that comes out if he feels like that's his role. He was very offensively minded at the WC with Germany in his draft year, for example.

 

[topshelf15]

Krupp 2.0??

 

[Big Empty]

Bang on.

He’s a very intriguing prospect that everyone should be paying attention to. Does he end up more like Brooks Orpik in his prime or Weber? I’m really hoping he works on his confidence in the offensive zone as well as his shot in the off season as that’s what’s going to decide if he’s a top pair D or a great physical/shutdown top 4D

If Seider became the next Shea Weber, that would be amazing for the Red Wings.

 

[nbwingsfan]

If Seider became the next Shea Weber, that would be amazing for the Red Wings.

Absolutely, but I don’t expect it. Although I don’t think anyone expected Weber to turn into what he did either.

I think a very real expectation is a 25-35pt D who can play PP2, and either anchor a second pairing or compliment an offensive D on the top pair perfectly, but not be a true #1D himself.

For a 6th overall pick, I’d be thrilled with this outcome.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Krupp 2.0??

If he accomplishes as much as Krupp over his career then the Wings would gladly take that. He's got more offensive upside than Krupp though...it will be great to watch his career unfold.

 

[ponder]

I think he's actually quite a good stickhandler. At the prospects tournament, he was dangling guys left and right. Maybe he just needs to get more confidence in that side of his game.

In general, he seems to have a very offensive streak that comes out if he feels like that's his role. He was very offensively minded at the WC with Germany in his draft year, for example.

Agreed, he’s got good hands, and is a really good skater for his size. Very calm/composed with the puck, makes good decisions, protects the puck well with his body too. Obviously his defensive play and physicality stand out the most, but he’s got plenty of upside with the puck too.

Stylistically, he reminds me a lot of Parayko, but more physical. And talent wise, I do believe he has a shot to become something like a “more physical Parayko”, which would obviously be a hell of a dman. Doesn’t have the cannon of a shot that Parayko does, but he could improve on that over time.

He’s my favourite drafted dman that’s not currently in the NHL, I’d personally take him over Byram.