RD Adam Fox (2016, 66th, CGY; traded to CAR; traded to NYR)

[ijuka]

Having an opinion you disagree with is not making stuff up.

"Hughes doesn't defend" isn't an opinion, though. It's fact-based - Hughes either defends, or Hughes doesn't defend. You can be either incorrect or correct about it.

For example, if I walk across a street, a person can't have the opinion that I didn't walk across the street. They can be wrong about it, or correct about it, however.

At this point in time, I've been very impressed with Fox and haven't seen so much of Hughes that I could form a very good opinion, but I think Hughes's skill set is a lot more exciting than Fox's and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being significantly better.

 

[Ainec]

You are doing a lot of assuming. You don't know which time zone I live in and you don't know how many times I've watched Hughes play.

Having an opinion you disagree with is not making stuff up. I'd hope you understand this concept because it's a crucial one, but there are a lot of people on this website that seem to think opinions are factual matters, based on whether it aligns with what they think or not.

you watch hughes play and came to the conclusion that he can't defend?

ouch

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

"Hughes doesn't defend" isn't an opinion, though. It's fact-based - Hughes either defends, or Hughes doesn't defend. You can be either incorrect or correct about it.

If you want to put it like that, I agree. However, I think everyone can tell that I didn't mean it in the sense you are talking about.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm not going to waste time assembling the statistical proof you're wrong. Everyone else knows, and you'd find a way to rationalize it. Put a poll on your own board, aimed at Fox's own fans. I dare you.

I already challenged him to a Poll and willing to spot him 3 to 1 Makar vs Fox. He continues with his personal bias that Fox might be better or at least comparable.

There is no statistical support from points, TOI, level of competition or +/-. AVs have 1/3 of their team out with injuries and he's increasing his scoring pace. He's close to doubling the next closest rookie totals, ranked 2nd overall for all DMen and Top 20 overall in scoring. Makar could run away with the Calder, but compared to Fox it's not even close (you can also include Hughes) to being a reasonable discussion.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I already challenged him to a Poll and willing to spot him 3 to 1 Makar vs Fox. He continues with his personal bias that Fox might be better or at least comparable.

There is no statistical support from points, TOI, level of competition or +/-. AVs have 1/3 of their team out with injuries and he's increasing his scoring pace. He's close to doubling the next closest rookie totals, ranked 2nd overall for all DMen and Top 20 overall in scoring. Makar could run away with the Calder, but compared to Fox it's not even close (you can also include Hughes) to being a reasonable discussion.

I know reading is hard, but you should read what his “us” was in reference to. Of course, he couldn’t back it up because what he said was an emotional overreaction to not being able to find a proper way to weed out an opinion he didn’t like.

As to you, you are being disingenuous at this point to keep going with your stats crusade. I don’t believe someone could struggle so much with the concept of trying to understand the viewpoint they purport to be arguing against, so I suspect you well understood my viewpoint, didn’t like what I had to say, so here comes your stats crusade again. You aren’t going to be able to weed out my opinion.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I know reading is hard, but you should read what his “us” was in reference to.

It was, generally, in reference to everyone on this board and anyone with any knowledge of hockey. Anyway, I'll save you the time and put up a poll on the Rangers' board so we can put this to rest.

 

[Patagonia]

It was, generally, in reference to everyone on this board and anyone with any knowledge of hockey. Anyway, I'll save you the time and put up a poll on the Rangers' board so we can put this to rest.

I’ll post a similar Poll on the General Group.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I know reading is hard, but you should read what his “us” was in reference to. Of course, he couldn’t back it up because what he said was an emotional overreaction to not being able to find a proper way to weed out an opinion he didn’t like.

As to you, you are being disingenuous at this point to keep going with your stats crusade. I don’t believe someone could struggle so much with the concept of trying to understand the viewpoint they purport to be arguing against, so I suspect you well understood my viewpoint, didn’t like what I had to say, so here comes your stats crusade again. You aren’t going to be able to weed out my opinion.

So, the thread lasted 10 minutes, your own fellow Rangers fans were 7-0 against there being any chance of Fox competing for the Calder this season or being considered on Makar's level this season, and your mod supervisor said this:

"So a conversation that happened on the NHL talk forum, one person made a fairly outlandish statement and you think it is a good idea to come to the the NYR boards to confirm what most reasonable folks already know?"

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

another prospect thread ruined by a certain poster... wish we could just have a nice discussion about this promising young player

 

[Patagonia]

I know reading is hard, but you should read what his “us” was in reference to. Of course, he couldn’t back it up because what he said was an emotional overreaction to not being able to find a proper way to weed out an opinion he didn’t like.

As to you, you are being disingenuous at this point to keep going with your stats crusade. I don’t believe someone could struggle so much with the concept of trying to understand the viewpoint they purport to be arguing against, so I suspect you well understood my viewpoint, didn’t like what I had to say, so here comes your stats crusade again. You aren’t going to be able to weed out my opinion.

Here is the Poll. You can follow the results.


Better Rookie DMan

 

[Patagonia]

The large discrepancy in the first 8 games you mean? Sure. Fox was adjusting to the NHL level, Makar got a little adjustment period last season when the played in the playoffs. So it took Fox about 8 games to get settled into the NHL and since then he's putting up just under the PPG ratio as Makar over the last 8 games while playing equally just as good defense if not better. Anything else? Should we get into which team has more offensive firepower or we will leave that one out? That only works with your NCAA argument right? (which you completely wrong about as well)

These 2 players have had almost identical developmental curves in the same league prior to the NHL and now having similar rookie seasons, i'm sorry if you don't want to hear that.

Poll for opinions. You can follow

Better Rookie DMan

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Poll for opinions. You can follow

Better Rookie DMan

Lmao, please quote me where I said Fox is better than Makar. You have some really serious reading issues.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It was, generally, in reference to everyone on this board and anyone with any knowledge of hockey. Anyway, I'll save you the time and put up a poll on the Rangers' board so we can put this to rest.

I refuse to believe you could be this dense. Here's what you said.

most of us probably believe you aren't actually stupid enough to hold them and are defending them out of a misplaced stubbornness which is familiar to anyone who reads message boards.

But the issue with this is that you still can't properly explain what my opinion is.

You either

A. Can't understand basic english
B. Are so disingenuous that you continue to misrepresent my opinion after being told time after time what I believe.

Here is your faux-thread. I don't even post in that section, by the way.

A poster, presumably from the Rangers' board, in Adam Fox's prospect thread claims that Fox is nearly as good as Makar and stands an appreciable chance of showing himself to be as good as he is and to compete with him for the Calder.

The problem with this is that this isn't my opinion. Where did I say that Fox has a chance to win the Calder? Please point this out, and I'm going to hold this to you because now you are spreading misinformation past this thread about my opinion.

And you better believe that if you don't respond, I will find your posts in another thread and hold you to it. It's time for you to admit you either made a mistake in interpreting my opinion or admit you were being purposely disingenuous because you didn't like my opinion.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Here is the Poll. You can follow the results.


Better Rookie DMan

What's your point? Do you win some trophy if most people on the website agree with you?

Colorado fans came into this thread and got their feelings hurt that it was suggested that Fox currently might be a better hockey player. This is not a factual matter. You don't get to stop someone from having an opinion if you get more people to agree with your opinion. Thats not how opinions work and your intolerance towards my opinion and continued disingenuous interpretation of my opinion only reflects poorly on you. You evidently care so much to weed out my opinion, that you claim is ridiculous, that you are going to all these crazy lengths of making a meaningless poll and misrepresenting what I believe with. If you disagree with me, why not just let it be?

 

[Patagonia]

What's your point? Do you win some trophy if most people on the website agree with you?

Colorado fans came into this thread and got their feelings hurt that it was suggested that Fox currently might be a better hockey player. This is not a factual matter. You don't get to stop someone from having an opinion if you get more people to agree with your opinion. Thats not how opinions work and your intolerance towards my opinion and continued disingenuous interpretation of my opinion only reflects poorly on you. You evidently care so much to weed out my opinion, that you claim is ridiculous, that you are going to all these crazy lengths of making a meaningless poll and misrepresenting what I believe with. If you disagree with me, why not just let it be?

To have an opinion is what this Board offers, but to be completely blind by ignoring every possible benchmark. You have no constructive supporting evidence to justify Fox is a comparable player.

Makar is just simply the superior player, this is not to knock Fox which should become a good player. Completion after 1/4 of the season is becoming even wider in skill level.

It’s not simply disagreeing which makes conversations interesting, but to disregard the obvious. He’s getting better as the team suffers more injuries. The numbers should be even higher as more players return. Poll was to support our opinion with the overwhelming majority that Makar is better.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

To have an opinion is what this Board offers, but to be completely blind by ignoring every possible benchmark. You have no constructive supporting evidence to justify Fox is a comparable player.

Makar is just simply the superior player, this is not to knock Fox which should become a good player. Completion after 1/4 of the season is becoming even wider in skill level.

It’s not simply disagreeing which makes conversations interesting, but to disregard the obvious. He’s getting better as the team suffers more injuries. The numbers should be even higher as more players return. Poll was to support our opinion with the overwhelming majority that Makar is better.

Going by there careers over the last 3 years makes them very comparable players. Stop being so damn biased jesus.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Going by there careers over the last 3 years makes them very comparable players. Stop being so damn biased jesus.

The poster he replied to wasn't talking about their careers in college, he was specifically talking about their performance, reception so far and expected performance this season in the NHL. You know this as well as we do. He's obviously wrong. Fans on the Rangers' own board, including two mods, unanimously agreed.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The poster he replied to wasn't talking about their careers in college, he was specifically talking about their performance, reception so far and expected performance this season in the NHL. You know this as well as we do. He's obviously wrong. Fans on the Rangers' own board, including two mods, unanimously agreed.

Ohh ok, my mistake. I have that poster blocked so I didn't know who he was responding to. He isn't worth discussing anything to do with prospects I learned very early on.

 

[Patagonia]

Ohh ok, my mistake. I have that poster blocked so I didn't know who he was responding to. He isn't worth discussing anything to do with prospects I learned very early on.

This was never to downplay Fox, but to acknowledge that Makar is the better player this season by a significant margin.

Comparing college careers they’re fairly close, but this season Makar has raised his level of play significantly above the rest of the rookie field. Everyone is entitled to disagree, but when every possible variable supports Makar we decided to ask the opinions of others on the HF Board.

Fox could be the better player which you suggested and have no issues. The focus is this season and few if anyone seems to disagree Makar is leading rookie.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

You are doing a lot of assuming. You don't know which time zone I live in and you don't know how many times I've watched Hughes play.

Having an opinion you disagree with is not making stuff up. I'd hope you understand this concept because it's a crucial one, but there are a lot of people on this website that seem to think opinions are factual matters, based on whether it aligns with what they think or not.

That might be true if you never made any other posts on here....

It’s too bad Detroit’s AHL team plays in the Western conference. I was looking forward to watching this guy play against Hartford, but I was surprised to see they are in the other conference. I’ll wait for the World Juniors to say for sure, but I think this was one of my biggest misses for the 2019 draft. I didn’t think he had the offensive upside he’s showing. I still don’t think he’ll be a PP1QB type of player, but does Parayko level or prime Bouwmeester sound like a good comparable? I was definitely someone who would’ve said Carlo or a little better was where he was trending pre-draft. That’s not bad, but I didn’t think it’d be worth the 6th pick. But he’s proving himself to be better than that in the AHL at age 18.

Doesn't appear that you watch many Canucks games based on this post.

I don't mind differing opinions; however I give less weight to abrasive posters that go against the general consensus based on very little reasoning/proof. I'm not saying the majority is always correct, but I will take the fans that watch a player more frequently over fans of other teams (yes, I realize the issue with rose tinted glasses/homerism so not every poster should be viewed as credible).

I saw a recent post from you using Hughes' offensive zone starts to undermine his defensive capabilities. Yet you fail to mention Edler has been injured and that Hughes is above and beyond the best offensive dman the Canucks have and it's not even close. Just look at our current defence and tell me why Hughes' deployment indicates he is bad at defence, rather than him just being the only offensive option on the back-end for offensive zone deployment. Travis Green is just making do with what he currently has; it has nothing to do with Hughes' defensive competency.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That might be true if you never made any other posts on here....



Doesn't appear that you watch many Canucks games based on this post.

I don't mind differing opinions; however I give less weight to abrasive posters that go against the general consensus based on very little reasoning/proof. I'm not saying the majority is always correct, but I will take the fans that watch a player more frequently over fans of other teams (yes, I realize the issue with rose tinted glasses/homerism so not every poster should be viewed as credible).

Really bizarre bump of this thread.

Did you go looking through all my posts from the last few weeks because you were still upset about a discussion from weeks ago? It doesn't have anything to do with Adam Fox either. You could've sent me a private message, instead of bumping a thread about another player.

And for the record, in the post you dug for, I was referring to the fact that I watch Hartford games because that's the affiliate of the Rangers. I don't attend any of those games, nor necessarily watch them at the time they are being played, but keep trying to pursue my time zone!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Fox has started picking up his level of play recently. I don't know if its only a great stretch of form that'll revert, but he's looking like he could develop into a 1D with his play in the last few weeks. He's been our best player or close to it numerous recent games where he didn't even have much of a contribution to the scoresheet with points. In this stretch of play he's shown tremendous defensive anticipation, great ability to defend the rush, excellent use of his stick defensively to make plays, and unmatched defensive positioning for a rookie. He's been good all season in these areas, but he's been a game-changer level of player in these areas recently. This was not far off the level of defensive impact we saw from McDonagh at his best.

Fox is on pace 45 points and he only plays 18:30, so that number will likely go up in future seasons when he plays more per game. But it's his play in the other two zones that could make him a 1D, if he can keep this level of play up. I already thought he was good in the other two zones for most of this season, but he's been a complete difference maker in those zones recently.

 

[Matz03]

For me, Fox is showing more than McDonagh did this far into his rookie year. Not a knock on McDonagh but that’s how impressive Fox he’s been to me. Ryan had the dynamic skating element but Fox’s smarts in all three zones are Fox like. I absolutely maintain he’s our future all situation 1st pairing d. He’s the most valuable D on our depth chart already and upcoming prospects.