RD Adam Fox (2016, 66th, CGY; traded to CAR; traded to NYR)

[Deen]

I'll always hate Fox for forcing a trade from Calgary. There is no denying he's a stud though.

 

[Patagonia]

The large discrepancy in the first 8 games you mean? Sure. Fox was adjusting to the NHL level, Makar got a little adjustment period last season when the played in the playoffs. So it took Fox about 8 games to get settled into the NHL and since then he's putting up just under the PPG ratio as Makar over the last 8 games while playing equally just as good defense if not better. Anything else? Should we get into which team has more offensive firepower or we will leave that one out? That only works with your NCAA argument right? (which you completely wrong about as well)

These 2 players have had almost identical developmental curves in the same league prior to the NHL and now having similar rookie seasons, i'm sorry if you don't want to hear that.

Did you consider the age difference of Fox being older? Makar parachuting immediately after the NCAA playoffs into the Stanley Cup playoffs against the Top 2 teams in the Western Conference? He averaged nearly a PPG in the tougher playoffs which is still higher than the current pace of Fox.

Go ahead and embarrass yourself and create a Poll on which player is better? I’ll be surprised if Fox gets more than 25% support.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Did you consider the age difference of Fox being older? Makar parachuting immediately after the NCAA playoffs into the Stanley Cup playoffs against the Top 2 teams in the Western Conference? He averaged nearly a PPG in the tougher playoffs which is still higher than the current pace of Fox.

Go ahead and embarrass yourself and create a Poll on which player is better? I’ll be surprised if Fox gets more than 25% support.

The age? They are 9 months apart keep going, i’m enjoying this.

Of course Makar would win in a poll at this point, nobody is denying that. The point is they are not as fart apart and you want to believe in terms of skill and impact.

 

[Patagonia]

The age? They are 9 months apart keep going, i’m enjoying this.

Of course Makar would win in a poll at this point, nobody is denying that. The point is they are not as fart apart and you want to believe in terms of skill and impact.

You keep believing Fox is the better player. Knowing you’re unwilling to create a Poll is proof enough of the expected and likely embarrassing outcome. Just be satisfied you have a good player.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You keep believing Fox is the better player. Knowing you’re unwilling to create a Poll is proof enough of the expected and likely embarrassing outcome. Just be satisfied you have a good player.

Never did I say Fox was the better player. So you are graduating to just flat out lying now?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Rantanen and Landeskog have been injured for quite a while oh wise one. Keep posting nonsense though.

Don't be intentionally dense. Thats your first line. If we happen to be at a point where they are injured, it doesn't change the equation or the larger point.

Yup, literally clueless.


At least do even a second of research before spouting complete nonsense. The Avs top line is Calvert - Mackinnon - Donskoi.

And news flash: Good players play more minutes. Makar is playing big minutes BECAUSE HE'S A SPECIAL PLAYER. It has nothing to do with trying to inflate his points.


Man oh man what is with certain Rangers fans and the completely delusional **** they come up with. Wow.

See above. You are yet another who is trying to deflect because you know the point I'm making is correct. Why try to hide what we all know about your team? It's not even something that anyone said is bad. Being intentionally dense only reflects poorly on you.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Landeskog and Rantanen have been out for the last 7 and 9 games. Makar has 8 points in his last 7 games (Same amount as Fox's point total in 16) and 10 points in his last 9.
If Fox is so good why isn't he playing on the first powerplay or a higher pairing? Maybe, just maybe Makar is playing those minutes because he is good enough to play them not because Bednar is forcing ice time on him so you lose an argument on the internet.

Fox was recently moved to the top PP unit, but he plays on a right side with Trouba and DeAngelo. There aren't more than a few right sides in the league better than that. I haven't even looked properly. There might be no right sides better than that. It's not easy to break into that right side and take minutes away from two of the better and more established hockey players on the team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

AVs are ravaged with injuries. Rants missed half the season and Landy is nearly the same. Makar has been lighting up the points AFTER Landy and Rants went down.

College you can't even compare when Fox played on the most stacked team in college and Makar joined the worst team in the country that only reached the playoffs twice in their history. Not only did he beat Fox head to head, he led them to their first NCAA Finals. He easily won every single individual award by his peers.

Makar is running away with the Rookie scoring and 3rd overall in DMen scoring. He is beating Fox in every offensive category and has the higher +/- and plays on the 2nd line. Hughes is a level below and will also be a special player leading a rebuilt team. Fox is playing sheltered 3rd line minutes against easier competition and should have better numbers.

Doubt you'll find anyone beyond NYR fans that believes Fox is better than Makar or Hughes. It really isn't that close.

I'll easily take him over Hughes. Hughes doesn't defend.

I didn't say I'll take Fox over Makar, and I don't know which NYR fans said they would. I suggested that Fox vs. Makar for just this year might be closer than many think. Makar got off to a slow start, which is widely acknowledged. I don't claim that I watch all the Avalanche games, but citing his point totals is flawed, for the reasons mentioned already in this thread. I'm not even saying Fox will contend for the Calder because I don't think he will, but I'm saying that he might be better this season than Makar. Makar is a draft behind Fox, so I wouldn't overlook that either.

 

[Ivan13]

Don't be intentionally dense. Thats your first line. If we happen to be at a point where they are injured, it doesn't change the equation or the larger point.



See above. You are yet another who is trying to deflect because you know the point I'm making is correct. Why try to hide what we all know about your team? It's not even something that anyone said is bad. Being intentionally dense only reflects poorly on you.

How out of touch can you be?

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

He should make the all star team this year.

 

[Patagonia]

I'll easily take him over Hughes. Hughes doesn't defend.

I didn't say I'll take Fox over Makar, and I don't know which NYR fans said they would. I suggested that Fox vs. Makar for just this year might be closer than many think. Makar got off to a slow start, which is widely acknowledged. I don't claim that I watch all the Avalanche games, but citing his point totals is flawed, for the reasons mentioned already in this thread. I'm not even saying Fox will contend for the Calder because I don't think he will, but I'm saying that he might be better this season than Makar. Makar is a draft behind Fox, so I wouldn't overlook that either.

Your post is riddled with inconsistencies and weird statements.

• "might be closer than many think." Statistically it's not even close. Makar has double the points and averages 1 PPG including Playoffs and exceeds him in every other number. Makar plays on the 1st or 2nd lines and Fox 3rd.
• "point totals is flawed." What number should be used? Maybe +/- , TOI or against tougher competition which Makar still has the superior numbers.
• "not even saying Fox will contend for the Calder." You just did with the next quote.
• "I'm saying that he might be better this season than Makar" How can you be better than the leading favourite for the same Calder/Rookie of the Year Award, but don't believe he'll win?
• "Makar is a draft behind Fox". Incorrect it's after. Fox - 2016 and Makar - 2017

So which is it? Makar or Fox?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

View attachment 277243

Your post is riddled with inconsistencies and weird statements.

• "might be closer than many think." Statistically it's not even close. Makar has double the points and averages 1 PPG including Playoffs and exceeds him in every other number. Makar plays on the 1st or 2nd lines and Fox 3rd.
• "point totals is flawed." What number should be used? Maybe +/- , TOI or against tougher competition which Makar still has the superior numbers.
• "not even saying Fox will contend for the Calder." You just did with the next quote.
• "I'm saying that he might be better this season than Makar" How can you be better than the leading favourite for the same Calder/Rookie of the Year Award, but don't believe he'll win?
• "Makar is a draft behind Fox". Incorrect it's after. Fox - 2016 and Makar - 2017

So which is it? Makar or Fox?

Don't pass off your own problems understanding my opinion or more likely your attempt at deception, as my issue, but I'll spell this out to expose your clear attempt to play dense.

Points or even stats does not exactly correlate to ability. I don't know why this is hard to understand. As I've mentioned many times, Colorado runs a personnel system, which increases the point totals of their best players in a way that most other teams in the league don't. I don't think pointing to point totals is fair. Fox is a 6th among his own defense core in TOI, and has only been on PP1 recently. Stats does not give a good picture of whose better. Once again, since you seem to have trouble with simple concepts, points or stats does not exactly correlate to ability.

Here's another concept you seem to struggle with. Better doesn't exactly correlate to winning the Calder. The Calder almost always goes to the player who puts up the most points, goals, PPG or leads in one of these bigger stats. It rarely takes into account ages of players, how much they play, the situations they play in, the ability of the players. And I don't know what's hard to understand about Makar is a draft behind Fox. The 2017 draft is a draft behind the 2016 draft. Can you not count? Thats basic math. I'm shocked how someone cold struggle with understanding that.

 

[LuckyBoeser]

I'll easily take him over Hughes. Hughes doesn't defend.

Hughes have been very good defensively this season. He have been existing the zone really well and has a good stick in the defense zone. He has a positive impacts on limiting shots attempt against and quality chances against. He does struggles along the board since he tends to get outmuscle and does makes rookie mistakes like any other rookie defenseman. Anyways, he have had a positive impact defensively for the Canucks this season.

 

[William H Bonney]

I'll easily take him over Hughes. Hughes doesn't defend.

This is an absurd statement.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Don't pass off your own problems understanding my opinion or more likely your attempt at deception, as my issue, but I'll spell this out to expose your clear attempt to play dense.

Points or even stats does not exactly correlate to ability. I don't know why this is hard to understand. As I've mentioned many times, Colorado runs a personnel system, which increases the point totals of their best players in a way that most other teams in the league don't. I don't think pointing to point totals is fair. Fox is a 6th among his own defense core in TOI, and has only been on PP1 recently. Stats does not give a good picture of whose better. Once again, since you seem to have trouble with simple concepts, points or stats does not exactly correlate to ability.

Here's another concept you seem to struggle with. Better doesn't exactly correlate to winning the Calder. The Calder almost always goes to the player who puts up the most points, goals, PPG or leads in one of these bigger stats. It rarely takes into account ages of players, how much they play, the situations they play in, the ability of the players. And I don't know what's hard to understand about Makar is a draft behind Fox. The 2017 draft is a draft behind the 2016 draft. Can you not count? Thats basic math. I'm shocked how someone cold struggle with understanding that.

I'm not a fan of either team and have no horse in this race. You took a position early on that no one agrees with and which is almost certainly false -- that Fox is nearly as good as Makar and may be better this season -- and now you're refusing to abandon it and instead trying to insert a bunch of qualifications.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not a fan of either team and have no horse in this race. You took a position early on that no one agrees with and which is almost certainly false -- that Fox is nearly as good as Makar and may be better this season -- and now you're refusing to abandon it and instead trying to insert a bunch of qualifications.

I couldn't care less which team you are a fan of. Opinions are not factual matters. An opinion is not false because you don't like it. And if you are going to say no one agrees with my opinion, you should provide some back up for that, which I'm sure you won't.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I couldn't care less which team you are a fan of. Opinions are not factual matters. An opinion is not false because you don't like it. And if you are going to say no one agrees with my opinion, you should provide some back up for that, which I'm sure you won't.

Makar is already one of the best defensemen in the NHL this season. He's in a completely different category than Fox. It isn't a question of whether anyone "likes" your opinions. They aren't even really opinions -- most of us probably believe you aren't actually stupid enough to hold them and are defending them out of a misplaced stubbornness which is familiar to anyone who reads message boards.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Makar is already one of the best defensemen in the NHL this season. He's in a completely different category than Fox. It isn't a question of whether anyone "likes" your opinions. They aren't even really opinions -- most of us probably believe you aren't actually stupid enough to hold them and are defending them out of a misplaced stubbornness which is familiar to anyone who reads message boards.

Who is us?

This game you play where you try to make it seem like I have a crazy opinion that everyone disagrees with isn't going to work unless you show some proof. According to you, it's not even an opinion that I have because apparently people who disagree with your rationale aren't allowed opinions.

I explained my opinion very clearly, and you've not even attempted to address the way I think the discussion should be framed. Instead, you are citing the way you frame the discussion. You are allowed to frame this how you'd like, but don't play neutral arbiter when its clear that you didn't care what I had to say, disliked my opinion and are trying to discredit me.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Who is us?

This game you play where you try to make it seem like I have a crazy opinion that everyone disagrees with isn't going to work unless you show some proof. According to you, it's not even an opinion that I have because apparently people who disagree with your rationale aren't allowed opinions.

I explained my opinion very clearly, and you've not even attempted to address the way I think the discussion should be framed. Instead, you are citing the way you frame the discussion. You are allowed to frame this how you'd like, but don't play neutral arbiter when its clear that you didn't care what I had to say, disliked my opinion and are trying to discredit me.

The idea that you think anyone needs to discredit you at this point is hilarious. Makar is a better player by a wide margin in every way at this point. You know it. When you claim to believe otherwise you're lying because you're caught up in the emotional experience of arguing.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Who is us?

Absolutely everyone, presumably including other Rangers fans. Put up a poll on your own board and ask them whether Fox has been anywhere near as good as Makar.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Absolutely everyone, presumably including other Rangers fans. Put up a poll on your own board and ask them whether Fox has been anywhere near as good as Makar.

Thanks. As expected, you can't back it up.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Thanks. As expected, you can't back it up.

I'm not going to waste time assembling the statistical proof you're wrong. Everyone else knows, and you'd find a way to rationalize it. Put a poll on your own board, aimed at Fox's own fans. I dare you.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I'll easily take him over Hughes. Hughes doesn't defend.

It's ok to write "I don't watch Hughes often because of the time zone difference." You don't need to make up stuff based off your ignorance. Sometimes it's best to admit it when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[The Sweetness]

And if you are going to say no one agrees with my opinion, you should provide some back up for that, which I'm sure you won't.

He’s right. No one agrees with you.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's ok to write "I don't watch Hughes often because of the time zone difference." You don't need to make up stuff based off your ignorance. Sometimes it's best to admit it when you don't know what you're talking about.

You are doing a lot of assuming. You don't know which time zone I live in and you don't know how many times I've watched Hughes play.

Having an opinion you disagree with is not making stuff up. I'd hope you understand this concept because it's a crucial one, but there are a lot of people on this website that seem to think opinions are factual matters, based on whether it aligns with what they think or not.