Waived: Raymond and Byron; Granlund sent down to Stockton

[DCDM]

What? Byron?

That's Treliving's first really dumb move. Honestly?

It's not dumb, it's obviously pretty calculated.

 

[Volica]

What? Byron?

That's Treliving's first really dumb move. Honestly?

How is that a dumb move exactly? It literally means that no GM had offered anything of value for him and Treliving either foresees him passing through without problem or giving him another chance elsewhere.

I feel bad for the guy, because he's a decent player; but unfortunately others can do his job and bring other elements. IF this guy panned out like a super-pest, that'd be dope.

 

[Dertell]

Just thinking to myself at this point, if the Flames really did want to get rid of Byron- if that was actually the goal- they wouldn't have qualified him and used a roster spot. It isn't as if his play in TC would've changed their minds, given he didn't play much in TC. So obviously they aren't trying to get rid of him, but are just giving themselves a little flexibility.

What you're saying makes sense, but at this point I think they just don't value him at all for what he brings compared to say, Bollig's truculence or Colborne's size and are frustrated with his "lack of finish", for several reasons.

With that cap hit and the fact he's an established NHLer, it's more likely a team lacking in good bottom 6 guy like the Bruins or the Leafs claim him than not. And they wouldn't have waived him specifically if they didn't think he was the least valuable player of the bunch. Also, BT didn't even give him a QO last year and decided to sign him in August. I don't think he did "enough" to change his mind last year.

 

[Anglesmith]

What you're saying makes sense, but at this point I think they just don't value him at all for what he brings compared to say, Bollig's truculence or Colborne's size and are frustrated with his "lack of finish", for several reasons.

With that cap hit and the fact he's an established NHLer, it's more likely a team lacking in good bottom 6 guy like the Bruins or the Leafs claim him than not. And they wouldn't have waived him specifically if they didn't think he was the least valuable player of the bunch. Also, BT didn't even give him a QO last year and decided to sign him in August. I don't think he did "enough" to change his mind last year.

Then why would they have qualified him and "risked" having him take up a contract spot for the year?

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Then why would they have qualified him and "risked" having him take up a contract spot for the year?

Sometimes you take risks and they either pan out or don't. That's the business of hockey. They thought Byron was capable of taking a spot, but obviously had him lower on the depth chart because he is expendable. When injuries occur he could step in if needed.

 

[Anglesmith]

Sometimes you take risks and they either pan out or don't. That's the business of hockey. They thought Byron was capable of taking a spot, but obviously had him lower on the depth chart because he is expendable. When injuries occur he could step in if needed.

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over here:

-If they were taking a risk and seeing how his camp went, then it's illogical for them to give him basically no opportunity. He didn't pan out or not pan out in camp- he barely factored in any way. The games he played in (exactly two- he didn't play in a split-squad game) he was given bad linemates and lower-than average ice time. In addition, they know what they have in him. Using this camp as a test of some sort to overrule what they knew previously is myopic to the max.

-If they already had their minds set that he's not part of the plan going forward, then signing him to a contract was a dumb idea. There's your opportunity to cut ties with the player risk-free, and they didn't take it. Hell, even last year they took a more cautious approach when they didn't qualify him.

When you put two and two together, Calgary having no interest in Paul Byron doesn't make sense. Calgary thinking he'll clear and give them more flexibility, on the other hand, makes plenty.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over here:

-If they were taking a risk and seeing how his camp went, then it's illogical for them to give him basically no opportunity. He didn't pan out or not pan out in camp- he barely factored in any way. The games he played in (exactly two- he didn't play in a split-squad game) he was given bad linemates and lower-than average ice time. In addition, they know what they have in him. Using this camp as a test of some sort to overrule what they knew previously is myopic to the max.

-If they already had their minds set that he's not part of the plan going forward, then signing him to a contract was a dumb idea. There's your opportunity to cut ties with the player risk-free, and they didn't take it. Hell, even last year they took a more cautious approach when they didn't qualify him.

When you put two and two together, Calgary having no interest in Paul Byron doesn't make sense. Calgary thinking he'll clear and give them more flexibility, on the other hand, makes plenty.

All fair points, but I imagine there's some dissenting internal opinions on Byron. If I had to guess

- Hartley - Yay Byron
- Treliving - Hmm, Possession.. we should re-sign Byron.
- Conroy - YAY EVERYBODY
- Pascal - We can use Byron on Stockton... let's waive him
- Burke - HURR DURR NEED MORE SIZE LET'S SIGN COLTON ORR AND WAIVE BYRON

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

I'm not saying Byron is bad. What I am trying to say out of a few people they could have waived, he was one of the players. If he gets picked up, management isn't going to lose sleep over it. If not, great for us. It's what makes him expendable compared to other players. Did Calgary sign Raymond thinking they would have to waive him a season later? Probably not, stuff happens. I sure didn't think he would be this bad.

 

[Anglesmith]

I'm not saying Byron is bad. What I am trying to say out of a few people they could have waived, he was one of the players. If he gets picked up, management isn't going to lose sleep over it. If not, great for us. It's what makes him expendable compared to other players. Did Calgary sign Raymond thinking they would have to waive him a season later? Probably not, stuff happens. I sure didn't think he would be this bad.

Raymond is completely different, seeing as they signed him to fulfill a role, then gave him a full season to try performing that role. Now they're kind of stuck with him, and have to deal with him as is.

In Byron's case, the only thing that has gone on since his signing is training camp, where he started out recovering from injury, then didn't play much.

The only point I'm trying to make here is that this move probably isn't about the Flames trying to rid themselves of Byron. It might be that in Raymond's case, though.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

I think they assume Byron will clear with the huge amount of waiver fodder out there. Him going to Stockton at least for a bit working off injury rust might not be a bad thing while we figure things out

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Thank God Raymond was waived, he's totally useless in our system. He can skate well, but that's about it. He's not a liability defensively, but he provides zero physicality unlike Byron. When you put a body on him, he disappears, he's so inconsistent and pretty much all of our young players have elements to their game that Raymond doesn't. Essentially if Raymond isn't scoring goals, he's just taking up a spot, he's not even an overly good playmaker, I'd honestly rather have Setoguchi. Now that he's waived, he can't take away minutes from young guys that need it for their development.

In regards to Byron, I'm legitimately saddened by this. I've never seen a player (maybe Begin or Scottie Nichols) play with so much heart. This guy is a lion in a cats body. Unfortunately though, we have Gaudreau (he's not touching him), Ferland (plays a different role that we need), Bouma (so important to our team) that Byron was battling a spot for. The one guy I think he was actually up against for a legit spot was Jooris, and Jooris simply offers more. Then factor in Colborne and it's pretty crowded for Paul. We are set down the middle as well which is why Granlund was sent down. I dunno, hopefully he's not claimed, I have a soft spot for Byron.

 

[Dertell]

Then why would they have qualified him and "risked" having him take up a contract spot for the year?

I dunno. I hope you're right. I was just pissed they waived him over the many worse players on the team less likely to be claimed off; makes.

EDIT: They might've qualified him just in case no one passed him on the depth chart. Probably.

 

[Lunatik]

After reading this thread since I went to bed I have a few comments.


1) How waivers works. Once a player clears waivers he has 30 days/10 NHL games (whichever comes first) without having to be placed on waivers again.

2) A player can actually be made more tradable after clearing waivers. If a bubble player that can contribute clears waivers they can start in the AHL for their new club and be recalled when needed since recall waivers are gone. Similar to Henrik Karlsson, no one claimed him on waivers but he was traded to Chicago for a pick after clearing because the Hawks didn't have to take the waiver risk.

3) This gives Treliving 30 days to move a goalie in a deal that adds an NHL forward to our roster.

4) If one of Raymond or Byron is claimed the decision is made for us on who to keep on the roster.

 

[Lunatik]

I dunno. I hope you're right. I was just pissed they waived him over the many worse players on the team less likely to be claimed off; makes.

EDIT: They might've qualified him just in case no one passed him on the depth chart. Probably.

What "worse players" are on the team?

 

[Lunatik]

Anglesmith checking out the cost of AHL live packages in case Byron clears e4

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

What "worse players" are on the team?

Monahan.

 

[Anglesmith]

Anglesmith checking out the cost of AHL live packages in case Byron clears e4

Clearing waivers doesn't mean demoted.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Monahan.

I'm a summing he means Colborne and Bollig, maybe Engelland and Smid to.

 

[Lunatik]

Clearing waivers doesn't mean demoted.

but it does mean he can and might be demoted. You don't have to purchase it yet

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

I'm a summing he means Colborne and Bollig, maybe Engelland and Smid to.

Have you seen Monahan? Has bust written all over.

 

[Lunatik]

I'm a summing he means Colborne and Bollig, maybe Engelland and Smid to.

Can't demote a player on IR, not that Colborne isn't clearly better though. Bollig as I pointed out a million times has a role on this team and is the only player that plays that role, Byron may have more skill but put into Bollig's role, Byron would get murdered. Engelland and Smid are defensmen, I really hope they aren't brought up because that would be a terrible argument

This wasn't directed at you, because I know you are just naming guys it could be

 

[Dertell]

What "worse players" are on the team?

As far as lefties goes: Bollig and Colborne (unfortunately, IR is in the way). Bouma and Ferland as well but I wouldn't waive them before Byron as both are likely to be claimed for different reasons. Engelland can't be waived; we only have six non-injured defensemen.

So it leaves Bollig - waive him, but don't demote him if his locker room presence is such a big deal. Just don't risk a much better hockey player for a someone whos on-ice role can be replaced by Bouma and Ferland.

 

[Lunatik]

As far as lefties goes: Bollig and Colborne (unfortunately, IR is in the way). Bouma and Ferland as well but I wouldn't waive them before Byron as both are likely to be claimed for different reasons. Engelland can't be waived; we only have six non-injured defensemen.

So it leaves Bollig - waive him, but don't demote him if his locker room presence is such a big deal. Just don't risk a much better hockey player for a someone whos on-ice role can be replaced by Bouma and Ferland.

I think you don't understand the word much if you think Byron is a much better hockey player. More skilled hockey player? Sure. But "much better", no. If you put Byron into Bollig's role he would get murdered.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Anglesmith checking out the cost of AHL live packages in case Byron clears e4

 

[Lunatik]

149.99 for the team