Ray Ferraro comments on the Current State of the Canucks

[Betamax*]

I agree in some cases. However a few of our "hometown discounts" really are hometown. I think Garrison and Hamhuis wanted a NTC because part of the reason they signed here was to be close to home in the first place.

I agree some players on this team have a NTC for the sole purpose that they don't wake up one day in Vancouver and the next in Edmonton which is why I think Edler is one who would move his NTC if it means he will still go to a playoff team.

In my opinion the Sedins, Hamhuis, Garrison and possibly Bieksa and Burrows wouldn't waive their NTCs because they have started a family here and that may trump going to a contender.

I think your comment is fair, especially with the Sedins, Hamhuis, Garrison and Bieksa right now. In the future, and *if* the Canucks' aren't in contention and are more rebuild than reset, they might be willing to do it if it means going to a legit Stanley Cup contender ... like what Iggy did.

I could see Burrows waiving it to go back to his home province of Quebec, however.


The two guys I stated in teh past that the Canucks should seriously consider moving if they don't feel the current core with a few moves can be a legit contender for the Stanley Cup is both Edler AND Kesler.

Both gave "discounts" ... so the only team you would be willing to do so, is a legit Stanley Cup contender that spends up to the Cap and has a similar philosophy as the Canucks where their top players take a less than market value to build the best team possible.

e.g. a team like the Penguins.

 

[BlackAces]

I think your comment is fair, especially with the Sedins, Hamhuis, Garrison and Bieksa right now. In the future, and *if* the Canucks' aren't in contention and are more rebuild than reset, they might be willing to do it if it means going to a legit Stanley Cup contender ... like what Iggy did.

I could see Burrows waiving it to go back to his home province of Quebec, however.


The two guys I stated in teh past that the Canucks should seriously consider moving if they don't feel the current core with a few moves can be a legit contender for the Stanley Cup is both Edler AND Kesler.

Both gave "discounts" ... so the only team you would be willing to do so, is a legit Stanley Cup contender that spends up to the Cap and has a similar philosophy as the Canucks where their top players take a less than market value to build the best team possible.

e.g. a team like the Penguins.

I can see Burrows being willing to move in a couple years. Kesler strikes me as an obvious guy who wants to win a cup and signed a cheap contract and got a NTC with us so he could play for a contender - I think he'd waive. I've heard nothing about Edler to suggest he has any serious attachment to the city itself either so I would definitely want to move him. Now is also a good time to move Higgins at the deadline. He's on pace for his best season since he was a Canadian, and his contract makes him very attractive to a contending team wanting to bolster their 3rd line. He's turning 31 this year and I think it's unlikely he has a season like this again.

 

[me2]

you're wrong in the case of nmcs for sure

Depends on "asks". If they are "asking" in a demanding sense then no. If it is more of a "ask to consider" then it is fine.

 

[slappipappi]

I Now is also a good time to move Higgins at the deadline. He's on pace for his best season since he was a Canadian, and his contract makes him very attractive to a contending team wanting to bolster their 3rd line. He's turning 31 this year and I think it's unlikely he has a season like this again.

Most contenders don't want a contract like Higgins for a number of year for a player who is sure to decline.

Contenders trade for expiring contracts.

 

[Verviticus]

Depends on "asks". If they are "asking" in a demanding sense then no. If it is more of a "ask to consider" then it is fine.

for an NMC? i would consider an NMC inviolate unless the player approaches the team. you're agreeing that even if the player is a massive worthless waste of space (and this agreement was stronger pre-lockout) you wouldn't be able to seek relief unless they let you. its a pretty strong statement to give someone a full nmc. note: even luongo does not have an NMC

 

[BlackAces]

Most contenders don't want a contract like Higgins for a number of year for a player who is sure to decline.

Contenders trade for expiring contracts.

I agree but I also think because of his cap hit and that the cap will be going up next year that he would be a guy you could keep around after without hurting your cap structure. Right now he is a good 2nd liner but would be the perfect 3rd liner on any contending team and I can't see him declining over the course of his contract to the point that he isn't at least a serviceable 3rd line guy.

 

[vanuck]

All I got from that was the meaningless opinion of someone who clearly knows nothing about the team other than what division we're in, and how old our players are.

Yep, there's a reason you shouldn't read his stuff.

 

[Betamax*]

for an NMC? i would consider an NMC inviolate unless the player approaches the team. you're agreeing that even if the player is a massive worthless waste of space (and this agreement was stronger pre-lockout) you wouldn't be able to seek relief unless they let you. its a pretty strong statement to give someone a full nmc. note: even luongo does not have an NMC

Uh, unless you know something that I don't, the main difference between a FULL NMC and a FULL NTC is that with a FULL NMC, you can't put a player on waivers without the player agreeing to it.

Situations change and we've seen players with FULL NMC move when asked by the organization to consider moving.

For example, IGGY last season and there weren't any lingering hard feelings between the organization and player outside of the issue where he exercised his right to veto a move to the Bruins to go to his preferred Pens at the time. But that was his right and the Flames still received some assets back rather than get nothing like what happened with Sundin and the Leafs.

In fact, the first time he came back to the Saddledome as an ex-Flames, there was a love-in tribute between him and the fanbase.

 

[Verviticus]

Uh, unless you know something that I don't, the main difference between a FULL NMC and a FULL NTC is that with a FULL NMC, you can't put a player on waivers without the player agreeing to it.

no ****. what i'm saying is, when you are putting the players preference of city over the team's flexibility to the point where giving them away for free isn't an option, you're agreeing to a thing that i will judge someone for if they ask the player to drop the clause. thanks for explaining a thing i already know

edit: look, don't bother following this up with a reply, i dont care

 

[Verviticus]

Yep, there's a reason you shouldn't read his stuff.

lambert owns and most of his stuff is pretty funny because you can scroll to the comments

 

[Betamax*]

I can see Burrows being willing to move in a couple years. Kesler strikes me as an obvious guy who wants to win a cup and signed a cheap contract and got a NTC with us so he could play for a contender - I think he'd waive. I've heard nothing about Edler to suggest he has any serious attachment to the city itself either so I would definitely want to move him. Now is also a good time to move Higgins at the deadline. He's on pace for his best season since he was a Canadian, and his contract makes him very attractive to a contending team wanting to bolster their 3rd line. He's turning 31 this year and I think it's unlikely he has a season like this again.

You know, the problem I see here is that ideally you don't want to move a player that is struggling badly if you think he can rebound since his market value will be at a low point ... hence your sell high thoughts with Higgins.

That's the thing with Edler, if he was playing to his potential, the Canucks would be a better team, and the thoughts and calls of moving him would decrease significantly from the fan base/media.

With him not exactly playing all too well this season, you would be moving him at a low point. Anyway, I think it's pretty important for him to play well in this Olympics for his and the Canucks' sake.

 

[Betamax*]

Okay the latest on Ferraro's take on the state of the Canucks after his appearance on Rintoul's show yesterday evening:

- thought that players would be "sour" after hearing how Coach Torts called out the team as not being good enough (speaking from an ex-players' perspective), said it should have been kept "in house"

I disagree with Ray's take. It doesn't matter to me, if players' feelings may be hurt. Enough was enough, and it was time for Torts to "call" out his players for their lack of effort against Detroit and you say a better effort the next game. Albeit with the same losing result.

The other thing he said that his observations at ice level, he felt that Burrows looked especially slow the times he's closely watched him which for a player where skating was his strength is concerning. I suspect his shot blocking injury still has lingering effects when he's come back to play that doesn't translate or not accounted for in those CHIP (Cap Hit of Injured Players) that some hockey bloggers like to throw out.

 

[Flash Walken]

Okay the latest on Ferraro's take on the state of the Canucks after his appearance on Rintoul's show yesterday evening:

- thought that players would be "sour" after hearing how Coach Torts called out the team as not being good enough (speaking from an ex-players' perspective), said it should have been kept "in house"

I disagree with Ray's take. It doesn't matter to me, if players' feelings may be hurt. Enough was enough, and it was time for Torts to "call" out his players for their lack of effort against Detroit and you say a better effort the next game. Albeit with the same losing result.

The other thing he said that his observations at ice level, he felt that Burrows looked especially slow the times he's closely watched him which for a player where skating was his strength is concerning. I suspect his shot blocking injury still has lingering effects when he's come back to play that doesn't translate or not accounted for in those CHIP (Cap Hit of Injured Players) that some hockey bloggers like to throw out.

I think Burrows looked slow last season as well.

I don't know if he had a lower body injury at any point, but he looks slower.

He also doesn't look nearly as hard on his skates. I've seen him get walloped several times this season by smaller players, and it's not embellishing on his part.

 

[Proto]

The other thing he said that his observations at ice level, he felt that Burrows looked especially slow the times he's closely watched him which for a player where skating was his strength is concerning. I suspect his shot blocking injury still has lingering effects when he's come back to play that doesn't translate or not accounted for in those CHIP (Cap Hit of Injured Players) that some hockey bloggers like to throw out.

Possibly, though he actually looked quite good after that injury, even if he didn't produce. It's equally possible he's just so far behind on his conditioning after two injuries that he can't catch up to game shape. It's just a complete write-off season for him at this point.

Hopefully for his sake he has a nice 10 game run somewhere and can at least score 5 goals this year or something.

 

[arttk]

Possibly, though he actually looked quite good after that injury, even if he didn't produce. It's equally possible he's just so far behind on his conditioning after two injuries that he can't catch up to game shape. It's just a complete write-off season for him at this point.

Hopefully for his sake he has a nice 10 game run somewhere and can at least score 5 goals this year or something.

Well it's been reported that he couldn't exercise at all after his jaw injury. Any increased blood flow would swell up his whole jaw. So imagine him not working out for the past month or 2, that's got to affect his speed, strength and then that probably affects his coordination? I don't see how he can get back up to speed even if he works out for 10 hours straight during the olympic break.

 

[Proto]

Well it's been reported that he couldn't exercise at all after his jaw injury. Any increased blood flow would swell up his whole jaw. So imagine him not working out for the past month or 2, that's got to affect his speed, strength and then that probably affects his coordination? I don't see how he can get back up to speed even if he works out for 10 hours straight during the olympic break.

That sounds about right to me. As I said, I thought he looked fine before the jaw injury and he's look terrible since. He's not a guy whose effort I'd ever question.

I just hope he can score a few and feel good about his game headed into next year, even if it's not in a Canucks uniform.

 

[Mizral]

I think a lot of fans right now are coming to the acceptance that the team needs to rebuild itself and Ferraro was very prescient with his concerns. Like him, I feel it will be much more than 1 or 2 individuals which need to change but more than likely 5-7 and this could include some off-ice staff as time goes on. The good news is that management seems to understand this however the bad news is that there are about 10-15 other NHL teams in the same boat who are trying to improve.

Basically this is where the rubber meets the road for Gillis' tenure as a GM, You can mark the Schneider trade (maybe even Hodgson deal) as the beginning of a new Canucks team. Much more work remains to be done.

 

[Betamax*]

I think a lot of fans right now are coming to the acceptance that the team needs to rebuild itself and Ferraro was very prescient with his concerns. Like him, I feel it will be much more than 1 or 2 individuals which need to change but more than likely 5-7 and this could include some off-ice staff as time goes on. The good news is that management seems to understand this however the bad news is that there are about 10-15 other NHL teams in the same boat who are trying to improve.

Basically this is where the rubber meets the road for Gillis' tenure as a GM, You can mark the Schneider trade (maybe even Hodgson deal) as the beginning of a new Canucks team. Much more work remains to be done.

Yeah, I think the public pronouncement by Coach Torts is the organization giving a "heads up" before changes occur. I would be completely shocked if we see the same core (i.e. players with NTCs) next season. I see at least one and probably two or more be traded before the beginning of next season. It will be a very interesting trade deadline and off-season, that's for sure.

 

[carolinacanuck]

if gillis is like most business minded professionals, he most likely has a 5 year plan with specific goals and tasks to be met after each season.

so, if he was hired in 2008...this means his original 5 year plan expired this past off-season and we're now in the middle of year 1 of his second 5 year plan.

my point? i don't expect a complete wholesale change of players through trades, it'll be a gradual process that should culminate with another stanley cup appearance sometime before 2018.

 

[YouppiKiYay]

I think Burrows looked slow last season as well.

I don't know if he had a lower body injury at any point, but he looks slower.

He also doesn't look nearly as hard on his skates. I've seen him get walloped several times this season by smaller players, and it's not embellishing on his part.

I love what Burrows has meant to this team, and I recognize after his last contract he needed to get paid with this one. But he will never play up to what he's now getting paid. If he can be traded, great. But if he can't, to me he's the most logical buyout candidate. More term than Booth at similar cap hit, but much longer, potentially more crippling, term.

Cap world is no place for sentimentality.

 

[Betamax*]

I love what Burrows has meant to this team, and I recognize after his last contract he needed to get paid with this one. But he will never play up to what he's now getting paid. If he can be traded, great. But if he can't, to me he's the most logical buyout candidate. More term than Booth at similar cap hit, but much longer, potentially more crippling, term.

Cap world is no place for sentimentality.

My cyber bro, Proto chimed in with this alleged take by TSN Bob McKenzie on Burrows yesterday on Burrows current "market value":

Bob McKenzie has already said he thinks Burrows is having a bad year and would have trade value around the NHL.

I think injuries ... first the shot blocking induced one compounded by the jaw fracture has essentially wrecked his season.

I believe he will improve over the course of the remainder of this season (it can't possibly get worse, right?) and have a bounce back
next season. A lot of his offensive performance and potential is tied in with how the Sedins' are performing and if they regress. moving foward ... well, if will inevitably affect Burrows as well.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Seriously Betamax, you can't lie...are you actually Matthew Sekeras in real life?