Rating the offseason as it stands

[Chainshot]

This off-season in many ways reminds me of the first summer Jason was on the job. There are definitely some feel good parts, and yet there are also questions and that which we have not yet seen. And for me personally, there is that sense of wanting more, Sabres or Amerk related.

 

[Jim Bob]

Not going to disagree with the need to see improvement from our guys, but I still believe the season hinges on whether the organization got it right with the coaching staff more than anything.

Even if Ralph and crew are really good, it won't mean a ton if Hutton & Ullmark can't stop a beach ball.

If you look at the Adams winners over history, a lot of them got way better goaltending compared to the year before.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Even if Ralph and crew are really good, it won't mean a ton if Hutton & Ullmark can't stop a beach ball.

If you look at the Adams winners over history, a lot of them got way better goaltending compared to the year before.

Replacement level goaltending would be adequate if the coaching staff and skaters excel. A coaching staff that instills the right habits and a competent defensive system will have a greater affect in the long run. I don't view Hutton or Ullmark as the long term starting goaltender for the Sabres.

 

[Montag DP]

I rated it excellent because I can't imagine much else that could have realistically been done. Some of you have unreasonable expectations. Botterill wasn't pulling a magic 2C out of a hat. He made a bunch of very good moves that many said would never happen, including firing Housley.

However, I am being optimistic because the success of the offseason depends mostly on how the new coaching staff pans out. It sounds good, but you never know until you see some results.

 

[OkimLom]

Even if Ralph and crew are really good, it won't mean a ton if Hutton & Ullmark can't stop a beach ball.

If you look at the Adams winners over history, a lot of them got way better goaltending compared to the year before.

Sure it may stink to receive poor goaltending, but with proper coaching and competitive system with issues fixed with players, you would at least have something build upon. Poor goaltending is an easy fix compared to finding the right coaching staff.

We saw last year which It wasnt necessarily the goaltending that was our undoing, but our paper thin structure that the goaltending was hiding. If you have a solid system in place it can help the team withstand poor goaltending play until it naturally averages out. Good goaltending will help hide the team’s core issues but if the team is poorly coached, that good goaltending will crumble at some point.

I know some will say “look at St Louis being carried by great goaltending,” but if you look at the team overall from when they changed coaches, St Louis was playing at a top 10 pace outside of the goaltending. They became a great team because of the change in coaching.

 

[jBuds]

Sure it may stink to receive poor goaltending, but with proper coaching and competitive system with issues fixed with players, you would at least have something build upon. Poor goaltending is an easy fix compared to finding the right coaching staff.

We saw last year which It wasnt necessarily the goaltending that was our undoing, but our paper thin structure that the goaltending was hiding. If you have a solid system in place it can help the team withstand poor goaltending play until it naturally averages out. Good goaltending will help hide the team’s core issues but if the team is poorly coached, that good goaltending will crumble at some point.

I know some will say “look at St Louis being carried by great goaltending,” but if you look at the team overall from when they changed coaches, St Louis was playing at a top 10 pace outside of the goaltending. They became a great team because of the change in coaching.

Didn’t Berube continue to lose until Binnington?

 

[Buffaloed]

Hired a coach because the first one they hired wasn't any good.
Signed Johansson to fill holes created the previous season.
Traded for Miller.
Traded for Jokiharju.
Re-signed Skinner.


I'd give it a ZZZZzzzz. C'mon Darcy do something!

 

[Blitz]

Gotta give it an incomplete grade so far.. The entire league is stuck in a massive 'stand-off' waiting for Marner, Rantinen, Laine, etc... to sign or force their way onto the market - Everyone else is stuck in a holding pattern & I can't fault JB for that... Yet.

✔ I was and remain thrilled w/ Kreuger hiring - you couldn't get a much more stabalizing presence w the options available - unique job experience prior to landing here could also at least make things interesting around here...
✔ Also a big fan of bringing in Miller & Mojo. They're exactly the type of guys that have been absent from this team for the last few years - BUF has tried bringing in 'role players', hoping they'll "play-up" to fill those holes (Falk, Beaulieu, Antipin, Erod, Thompson, Pommer etc..). We definitely still need some more help at #1RW and or #2C but it's a good start.
✔ Trading Nylander for Jokiharju . I was on board with giving Alex one more camp, especially since we're weak at right shot RW - but really, really like Joker's upside.
✔ Skinner had to be re-signed IMO, not bothered terribly by the slight overpay over 8yrs. - just happy to have Jeff on Eichel's wing going forward.
✔ RFA signings of E-Rod, McCabe & Ullmark handled relatively well - achieved market value.
✔ Drafting Cozens (..and Johnson). Needed the centre depth, Cozens still on board at #7 a no-brainer.

Still fully expecting a Ristolainen trade before the season starts. Return Will fully dictate whether or not it's a positive or negative. Neutral for now...
Adding Vesey at wing, as well as Ruotsalainen & Lazar as 'buy-low/low-risk' pivots - will have to keep an eye open at camp - fingers crossed, but too early to tell how they'll fit.

New RFA deals for both Larsson and/or Girgs - one or both should have been shipped out IMO.
GMJB refusing to use buyout window to rid this team and the maxed-out cap of Sobotka & possibly Scandella. Needed those roster spots and the relief.

Honourable mention - not GMJB's doing specifically... But those gold jerseys are sooooo hot!!

 

[Jim Bob]

Sure it may stink to receive poor goaltending, but with proper coaching and competitive system with issues fixed with players, you would at least have something build upon. Poor goaltending is an easy fix compared to finding the right coaching staff.

We saw last year which It wasnt necessarily the goaltending that was our undoing, but our paper thin structure that the goaltending was hiding. If you have a solid system in place it can help the team withstand poor goaltending play until it naturally averages out. Good goaltending will help hide the team’s core issues but if the team is poorly coached, that good goaltending will crumble at some point.

I know some will say “look at St Louis being carried by great goaltending,” but if you look at the team overall from when they changed coaches, St Louis was playing at a top 10 pace outside of the goaltending. They became a great team because of the change in coaching.

Poor goaltending isn't as easy a fix as many like to make it out to be.

Look at how long the Flyers have been searching for solid goaltending, for example.

St Louis became a great team because of the coach AND the goalie. Without either one, they don't get where they got to.

And that is the major issue with this particular off season with the Sabres. They had a lot of holes to fill. And they didn't fill the hole at 2C (unless Mitts is up to the task this season) and they didn't improve their goaltending (unless Hutton & Ullmark are way better than last year).

This team didn't have enough talent top to bottom such that so many people pointed at the coaching as the only reason they weren't better.

Lots of people looked at the Blues and said their coach and their goaltending were the reasons that they were in trouble. And their GM made the right moves to address those two issues in-season.

 

[jc17]

Not going to disagree with the need to see improvement from our guys, but I still believe the season hinges on whether the organization got it right with the coaching staff more than anything.

 

[old kummelweck]

Cozens is the x factor in the center position. I do think Botterill would be willing to entertain keeping him around for 10 games if he looks good in prospect tourney/pre-season. Having him in the mix with the other centers during critical roster decisions/evaluation could be keeping him from prematurely moving Risto to help that position.

 

[Chainshot]

Cozens is the x factor in the center position. I do think Botterill would be willing to entertain keeping him around for 10 games if he looks good in prospect tourney/pre-season. Having him in the mix with the other centers during critical roster decisions/evaluation could be keeping him from prematurely moving Risto to help that position.

There is also the seeming need for a RW option on Eichel’s line that Cozens might initially fill. If they happen to have instant chemistry, it is something to consider.

 

[sabremike]

Cozens is the x factor in the center position. I do think Botterill would be willing to entertain keeping him around for 10 games if he looks good in prospect tourney/pre-season. Having him in the mix with the other centers during critical roster decisions/evaluation could be keeping him from prematurely moving Risto to help that position.

Cozens has about the same chance of being on our roster beyond the 9 game cup of coffee before being sent back to juniors as I do. So it would seem like a real idea to go and find an NHL quality center because we need help now and Cozens is at least a year away and there's a good chance he's two years away.

 

[old kummelweck]

Cozens has about the same chance of being on our roster beyond the 9 game cup of coffee before being sent back to juniors as I do. So it would seem like a real idea to go and find an NHL quality center because we need help now and Cozens is at least a year away and there's a good chance he's two years away.

My point is Botterill may let the evaluation period play out and it could be impacting the 'offseason' move on Risto. Not that Cozens will make the roster, which is a long shot.

 

[Zip15]

Average, for now.

Still have a gaping hole at 2C, assuming they have no plans to try Reinhart there, which has a significant effect on the grade. Vesey and Johansson give us a little more middle-6 punch, and I liked the additions of Miller and Jokiharju. Still need to trim some fat from this group, too.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Seems the general consensus is that it was a solid yet unspectacular summer... some good moves but most folks would have liked to see a bit more change on the roster. I agree with the others who have been saying the season hinges on coaching more than anything else. Housley really was "holy shit" levels of bad last year....

Speaking of "Botterill's plan", I will say that the team is set up for a big offseason next summer. Loads of money coming off the books and GMJB will have some real flexibility to mould the roster if he is still around. I would absolutely love to see the team take a real legitimate step under Krueger this season to set us up for a window opening of sorts in '20-21.

 

[brian_griffin]

Cozens is the x factor in the center position. I do think Botterill would be willing to entertain keeping him around for 10 games if he looks good in prospect tourney/pre-season. Having him in the mix with the other centers during critical roster decisions/evaluation could be keeping him from prematurely moving Risto to help that position.

My point is Botterill may let the evaluation period play out and it could be impacting the 'offseason' move on Risto. Not that Cozens will make the roster, which is a long shot.

With all respect, I just don't get the logic.

Botterill may not be acting "in haste" to move Ristolainen now, because if Cozens does well a month from now, it means Botts has another ~3 weeks (let's say to end of October) to address center depth (or Eichel RW as @Chainshot noted) (or whatever the presumed "ready-now" roster return is from a Ristolainen trade). (???)

Why would such a delay be beneficial?

Does Ristolainen's trade value increase in the next 2 months? Highly unlikely in such a short time. If it did increase measurably in such a short time, it would seem the more prudent path would be to hold onto Ristolainen even longer.

Do more or higher value trade returns potentially shake loose by waiting another two months? I suppose it's possible. I suppose some potential Ristolainen trade partners may have prospects which truly impress and make a projected NHL roster player expendable, or another prospect redundant. But a trade for Risotlainen would still then require the trading partner to value Ristolainen more than the player sent to BUF. I think it more likely that the next 8 weeks - i.e., camp, then the start of the NHL season, we'll see a smaller trading partner market due to injuries around the league. At best, I think it's a push.

Similarly, if BUF is intent on keeping options open to give Cozens an NHL look, then the only Ristolainen trade scenario "now" which impairs that process is taking back an incremental waiver-eligible player. Trading Ristolainen for one waiver-eligible player is a push. Trading #55 for two waiver-eligible players makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to still give Cozens a cup of coffee. Teams figure out ways to do that each and every season. Minor injuries which normally would be played through can be put on IR, etc.

If the intent is to give Cozens a cup of coffee, it only "solves" the center depth for a few weeks. The longer-term need remains.
If the hope is that Cozens can fill an NHL center role for the season (which we both disagree with), then shame on Botts for making "Hope" a "Plan".

That Ristolainen is not traded "now" must be most strongly linked to either a lack of a trade partner, or lack of return value - whether that's a low return, or a low value of Risto which hopefully grows if he plays a season under Kreuger / new staff / new approach.

I think hypothetical scenarios re: Cozens camp performance don't move the needle at all on either the 2019-20 Sabres need for an NHL-caliber center, nor the return / available market for a Ristolainen trade.

 

[Zman5778]

Lots of people looked at the Blues and said their coach and their goaltending were the reasons that they were in trouble. And their GM made the right moves to address those two issues in-season.

I can't give Armstrong credit for Binnington. It's not like he went out and got Binnington. Chad Johnson was awful. He called up Binnington because he basically had no other choice.

 

[sabremike]

Just remember: WE HAVE HOPE!!!

 

[old kummelweck]

With all respect, I just don't get the logic.

Botterill may not be acting "in haste" to move Ristolainen now, because if Cozens does well a month from now, it means Botts has another ~3 weeks (let's say to end of October) to address center depth (or Eichel RW as @Chainshot noted) (or whatever the presumed "ready-now" roster return is from a Ristolainen trade). (???)

Why would such a delay be beneficial?

Does Ristolainen's trade value increase in the next 2 months? Highly unlikely in such a short time. If it did increase measurably in such a short time, it would seem the more prudent path would be to hold onto Ristolainen even longer.

Do more or higher value trade returns potentially shake loose by waiting another two months? I suppose it's possible. I suppose some potential Ristolainen trade partners may have prospects which truly impress and make a projected NHL roster player expendable, or another prospect redundant. But a trade for Risotlainen would still then require the trading partner to value Ristolainen more than the player sent to BUF. I think it more likely that the next 8 weeks - i.e., camp, then the start of the NHL season, we'll see a smaller trading partner market due to injuries around the league. At best, I think it's a push.

Similarly, if BUF is intent on keeping options open to give Cozens an NHL look, then the only Ristolainen trade scenario "now" which impairs that process is taking back an incremental waiver-eligible player. Trading Ristolainen for one waiver-eligible player is a push. Trading #55 for two waiver-eligible players makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to still give Cozens a cup of coffee. Teams figure out ways to do that each and every season. Minor injuries which normally would be played through can be put on IR, etc.

If the intent is to give Cozens a cup of coffee, it only "solves" the center depth for a few weeks. The longer-term need remains.
If the hope is that Cozens can fill an NHL center role for the season (which we both disagree with), then shame on Botts for making "Hope" a "Plan".

That Ristolainen is not traded "now" must be most strongly linked to either a lack of a trade partner, or lack of return value - whether that's a low return, or a low value of Risto which hopefully grows if he plays a season under Kreuger / new staff / new approach.

I think hypothetical scenarios re: Cozens camp performance don't move the needle at all on either the 2019-20 Sabres need for an NHL-caliber center, nor the return / available market for a Ristolainen trade.

Never did I say the ONLY reason they are waiting to trade risto is because of Cozens.

Skipping responses to some of your other points where you seem to be open to reasons not to trade risto now, ONE of the many reasons not to do it as there currently is not any pressure to address a top 6 position because this years first round pick is one of many possibilities for a top 6 position.

 

[old kummelweck]

Just remember: WE HAVE HOPE!!!

I know this makes Tage look pretty, but talk about poke-check-indecision from Howard...

 

[brian_griffin]

Never did I say the ONLY reason they are waiting to trade risto is because of Cozens.

Skipping responses to some of your other points where you seem to be open to reasons not to trade risto now, ONE of the many reasons not to do it as there currently is not any pressure to address a top 6 position because this years first round pick is one of many possibilities for a top 6 position.

thanks, I absolutely read too much into your view and now better understand the nuance / distinctions you're making.

 

[old kummelweck]

thanks, I absolutely read too much into your view and now better understand the nuance / distinctions you're making.

The offseason is dark and full of terrors.

 

[Chainshot]

With all respect, I just don't get the logic.

Botterill may not be acting "in haste" to move Ristolainen now, because if Cozens does well a month from now, it means Botts has another ~3 weeks (let's say to end of October) to address center depth (or Eichel RW as @Chainshot noted) (or whatever the presumed "ready-now" roster return is from a Ristolainen trade). (???)

Why would such a delay be beneficial?

Does Ristolainen's trade value increase in the next 2 months? Highly unlikely in such a short time. If it did increase measurably in such a short time, it would seem the more prudent path would be to hold onto Ristolainen even longer.

Do more or higher value trade returns potentially shake loose by waiting another two months? I suppose it's possible. I suppose some potential Ristolainen trade partners may have prospects which truly impress and make a projected NHL roster player expendable, or another prospect redundant. But a trade for Risotlainen would still then require the trading partner to value Ristolainen more than the player sent to BUF. I think it more likely that the next 8 weeks - i.e., camp, then the start of the NHL season, we'll see a smaller trading partner market due to injuries around the league. At best, I think it's a push.

Similarly, if BUF is intent on keeping options open to give Cozens an NHL look, then the only Ristolainen trade scenario "now" which impairs that process is taking back an incremental waiver-eligible player. Trading Ristolainen for one waiver-eligible player is a push. Trading #55 for two waiver-eligible players makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to still give Cozens a cup of coffee. Teams figure out ways to do that each and every season. Minor injuries which normally would be played through can be put on IR, etc.

If the intent is to give Cozens a cup of coffee, it only "solves" the center depth for a few weeks. The longer-term need remains.
If the hope is that Cozens can fill an NHL center role for the season (which we both disagree with), then shame on Botts for making "Hope" a "Plan".

That Ristolainen is not traded "now" must be most strongly linked to either a lack of a trade partner, or lack of return value - whether that's a low return, or a low value of Risto which hopefully grows if he plays a season under Kreuger / new staff / new approach.

I think hypothetical scenarios re: Cozens camp performance don't move the needle at all on either the 2019-20 Sabres need for an NHL-caliber center, nor the return / available market for a Ristolainen trade.

I don't have the two linked. Cozens could make the jump (unlikely, but not impossible) and one of the spots that is open is the RW spot beside Eichel which could be a way Cozens makes the team. I'm personally not keen on 18-year old NHL centers. What Risto returns will be what Risto returns, if Cozens makes the team out of camp is just on him, not contingent on that factor.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I like the trade with Chicago a lot and the other moves were positive. That said he failed to address the center position for the upcoming season and I think the season pretty much rides on Casey Mittelstadt's progression. If he takes a big step this team should be at least contending for a playoff spot into the final week of the season. If he doesn't take that step I think it could be another awful year.

I wish we had done more to add a true top sixer. Eichel, Skinner and Reinhart, until others prove themselves are the only legit top 6 forwards on the team. Botterill is pretty much letting his job ride on the notion that guys like Mittelstadt, Thompson and Olofsson are going to be ready for much larger roles. Maybe it will happen or maybe Eichel will hit the next tier and Dahlin will be a Norris candidate. I hope all of those things happen and we make the playoffs, but when I look around at the other teams in the conference, I wouldn't bet on us making the ending the drought.

Our best players have yet to peak, Eichel, Dahlin, and Reinhart. Yes Mittelstadt's development is key but the season doesn't ride on it.