Rate the 2019 offseason

[Henkka]

Not gonna rate until Gusev is traded somwhere.

 

[PullHard]

Up to this very moment: C

I am completely neutral, I understand the signings and think they are fine (less money/ term is almost always preferable but they are fine), draft was a bit of a shock but like most of the guys we picked

Will update if more happens

 

[Gniwder]

A

• The team signed Yzerman and got rid of Holland. That alone deserves an A.
• Would have been an A+ if Stevie had traded for Miller for picks then dumped Green at TDL for picks
• I'm OK with Stevie not making huge moves in his first offseason, we really don't know where the prospects are at yet
• Getting assets by eating contracts is on the owner as much as it is on the GM, Those kind of trades require Chris' approval, and I don't think he's as inclined to lose money. I'm OK with teh owner not wanting to spend millions on more draft picks when the team is loaded with prospects. At this point the team needs elite talent, not more 3rd round picks.
• No bad UFA contracts.
• Adding Flip means Abby is no longer playing a top 6 role
• Adding Nemeth means one of Daley or Ericsson sits in the press box

 

[FireBird71]

I give it a B...still think a good move or 2 is coming by the time the season starts

 

[deca guard]

the only things mattered about this off season were the draft , and not blowing long term future cap space on unimportant players . and nobody can predict how draft turns out but i'll take yzermans / verbeeks / drapers / wrights picks over any fans or the medias . and no cap space was blown . mean while yzerman also addressed the extremely important need for dmen by using first two pix on . and dmen with size and smarts which is what i wanted to see instead of kennys dumb dmen types that im still having nightmares about . ive zero negatives to post about this off season . mean while im totally ECSTATIC 19's taken over !

 

[kliq]

I grade it a D+.

Seider will fill a need but the rest of the picks are highly questionable imo. There are a lot of question marks regarding many of these players when they transition to professional North American hockey.

Filppula is a mere Vanek-type signing so it's not a big deal. Nemeth is pretty mediocre and slightly overpaid, but I understand what Yzerman is going for. Pickard is decent goalie depth.

They didn't sign any long-term youth (didn't expect it to happen, but we're still in bad shape for 2020). Prospect pool is still very underwhelming imo. I think we're looking at 5 years before this team is competitive.

By "competitive" do you mean in terms of competing for a cup? Or in terms of competing for a playoff spot?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

B. Nothing we did was amazing, but everything was appropriate. I think the organization is following a reasonable but unsexy rebuilding philosophy. Anyone who wanted a big splash is disappointed now, but it's not necessarily the wrong move, long-term.

Like Steve said a gazillion times, it's all about patience. It's going to take a few years, and those might not be the most fun or exciting years.

 

[Winger98]

It's been an off-season. The draft was interesting, and nothing big has happened on the trade/UFA front. It really looks like the Wings are going to play out at least this up-coming season, so get ready for another 82 games largely of misery outside of watching the kids progress. I think the next big talking point here is going to be Athanasiou being dealt and whether or not the return was good.

The Holland Plan lives on.

edit: no grade.

 

[The Zermanator]

Wouldn't call all of them cap dumps, most were traded with assets coming back. Yeah they were traded to clear cap but neither had negative value, I thought we were talking about selling cap space to gain assets and neither fit that bill.

Still cap dumps IMO. The cap dump itself doesn't have to have negative value, sometimes the cap dump is the asset. Nashville wouldn't have gotten rid of Subban if the cap wasn't an issue. Thus he was both the asset and the cap dump. You can get a player with zero value like Clarkson and get paid in other assets to compensate. Or you can get a discount on a player who would otherwise cost much more. Either way it's dumping cap.

having 2nd pick + both trouba and panarin wanting to move to ny makes gorton a great gm ? and yzerman having 6th pick and no big ufa wanting to sign in detroit gets him a D ?

Well like I mentioned he was the one who added a ton of talent in a short time span in Boston and he did it again this offseason. That's two teams now, not just a coincidence I'd say. Holland hadn't done that in decades, for example. So there's a lot more that goes into it than just luck and circumstance.

They probably don't have that 2nd pick if they didn't fully commit to a rebuild. They sold off assets to become bad fast rather than simply allowing a consistent decline like the Wings did. He was proactive in his rebuild and it put him in a position where he could add high value assets fast. From drafting (Kaako), trade (Trouba), and FA (Panarin).

We don't know what Trouba and Panarin would have done. Panarin was close with a few teams. Wanting to move to NY is just speculation. If Trouba was dead set on NY and NY only, why hasn't he signed an extension yet? They have the cap space.

 

[obey86]

Still cap dumps IMO. The cap dump itself doesn't have to have negative value, sometimes the cap dump is the asset. Nashville wouldn't have gotten rid of Subban if the cap wasn't an issue. Thus he was both the asset and the cap dump. You can get a player with zero value like Clarkson and get paid in other assets to compensate. Or you can get a discount on a player who would otherwise cost much more. Either way it's dumping cap.



Well like I mentioned he was the one who added a ton of talent in a short time span in Boston and he did it again this offseason. That's two teams now, not just a coincidence I'd say. Holland hadn't done that in decades, for example. So there's a lot more that goes into it than just luck and circumstance.

They probably don't have that 2nd pick if they didn't fully commit to a rebuild. They sold off assets to become bad fast rather than simply allowing a consistent decline like the Wings did. He was proactive in his rebuild and it put him in a position where he could add high value assets fast. From drafting (Kaako), trade (Trouba), and FA (Panarin).

We don't know what Trouba and Panarin would have done. Panarin was close with a few teams. Wanting to move to NY is just speculation. If Trouba was dead set on NY and NY only, why hasn't he signed an extension yet? They have the cap space.

Don't know how you can say a team that finished 6th worst in the league committed to a rebuild but a team that finished 4th worst didn't and that's why they got Kakko and we didn't.

They finished with a better record than the Wings did, they just happened to get lucky with the way the balls bounced in the lottery. The Wings have finished with a worse record than the Rangers 3 years in a row now...Drafting Kakko had nothing to do with the Rangers committing to a rebuild and the Wings not doing so.

 

[obey86]

It is weird that Trouba hasn't signed an extension yet. Usually these things get done quickly if the player and team are in agreement about both wanting to be there. May mean that Trouba isn't quite 100% sure he wants to stay there yet.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

It is weird that Trouba hasn't signed an extension yet. Usually these things get done quickly if the player and team are in agreement about both wanting to be there. May mean that Trouba isn't quite 100% sure he wants to stay there yet.

Oh God not this again LOL! *not touching*

 

[Kronwalled55]

By "competitive" do you mean in terms of competing for a cup? Or in terms of competing for a playoff spot?

Competing for a cup or at least beginning to make consistent runs at one.

 

[vladdy16]

A+.

From a drafting, prospects, cap flexibility standpoint, we are heading into the 2020s in a stronger position than 90pct of the league.

Very happy with the work that was put in to set this up the past few years. Very happy that the new regime has played into those advantages, and the blend of Yzerman/Wright/Andersson/Fischer is going to be borderline magical imo.

 

[The Zermanator]

Don't know how you can say a team that finished 6th worst in the league committed to a rebuild but a team that finished 4th worst didn't and that's why they got Kakko and we didn't.

They finished with a better record than the Wings did, they just happened to get lucky with the way the balls bounced in the lottery. The Wings have finished with a worse record than the Rangers 3 years in a row now...Drafting Kakko had nothing to do with the Rangers committing to a rebuild and the Wings not doing so.

In 3 years the Rangers have traded away Yandle, Stepan, Grabner, Nash, JT Miller, McDonagh, Zuccarello, and Hayes. What have the Wings done in that span? Nyquist and Tatar, that's it. There are at least 6 players in that Rangers list who are as good/better than those two. If the Rangers still had all those players they definitely wouldn't be in contention for a lottery pick. They got that #2 pick because they put themselves in that position.

Wings got 6OA because they re-arranged deck chairs on the Titanic for years until the wheels just fell off naturally. Rangers purposefully took off the wheels to get in the position they are now. They traded assets for promising youth/picks, cleared cap space, and set themselves up for the position they are in this offseason. Kaako in, Trouba in, Panarin in.

edit: Let's not forget the Rangers were in the Stanley Cup Final as recently as 2014. They actually had a very competitive team around that time. But they realized at some point that they were relying too much on Lundqvist and that the team as it was composed at the time would not find its way to the Promised Land. So they dismantled it. Actively. Contrast that with the Wings who have been much more passive. The result? Rangers added 3 stars/superstars this offseason, using all 3 of the draft, trading, and FA.

 

[Frk It]

In 3 years the Rangers have traded away Yandle, Stepan, Grabner, Nash, JT Miller, McDonagh, Zuccarello, and Hayes. What have the Wings done in that span? Nyquist and Tatar, that's it. There are at least 6 players in that Rangers list who are as good/better than those two. If the Rangers still had all those players they definitely wouldn't be in contention for a lottery pick. They got that #2 pick because they put themselves in that position.

Wings got 6OA because they re-arranged deck chairs on the Titanic for years until the wheels just fell off naturally. Rangers purposefully took off the wheels to get in the position they are now. They traded assets for promising youth/picks, cleared cap space, and set themselves up for the position they are in this offseason. Kaako in, Trouba in, Panarin in.

+ they still got lucky.

I will continue to say that this lottery system is not the answer. There is too much potential for teams at the bottom of the league to stay stuck there. Very easy to miss out on the top 3 every year in this current system, and if so most teams are going to fail at re-building with picks in the 5-15 range. I mean it's better than what we had re-building on the fly, but the odds are not nearly as good drafting in that range as people think.

 

[The Zermanator]

+ they still got lucky.

I will continue to say that this lottery system is not the answer. There is too much possibility for teams at the bottom of the league to stay stuck there. Very easy to miss out on the top 3 every year in this current system, and if so most teams are going to fail at re-building with picks in the 5-15 range. I mean it's better than what we had re-building on the fly, but the odds are not nearly as good drafting in that range as people think.

It's lucky to win the draft lottery no doubt. But that is what it is. Every team is subject to those odds. Them being in the position to actually win it had nothing to do with luck.

 

[Frk It]

It's lucky to win the draft lottery no doubt. But that is what it is. Every team is subject to those odds. Them being in the position to actually win it had nothing to do with luck.

They didn't deserve to win it any more than we did. Hell, pretty sure we had better odds. When you're at the bottom, does it really mater how you got here?

I mean, the bigger issue is that when you are down there the best you can hope for is a 49% chance at a top 3 pick. Since this new lottery rolled out, the dead last team has drafted 4th in 2 of the last 3 years. So this is why you aren't seeing teams let the wheels fall off and commit to the re-build. The league made it a point to de-incentivize it.

I hope this is addressed in the new CBA. We are re-building in by far the worst time to do so.

 

[FMichael]

Decidedly meh. We’re rebuilding so lack of substantial progress is par for the course but looking at NYR makes me jealous - that’s how you aggressively remake your team.

True - however dropping down to 2nd in the draft certainly helped.

 

[The Zermanator]

They didn't deserve to win it any more than we did. Hell, pretty sure we had better odds. When you're at the bottom, does it really mater how you got here?

I mean, the bigger issue is that when you are down there the best you can hope for is a 49% chance at a top 3 pick. Since this new lottery rolled out, the dead last team has drafted 4th in 2 of the last 3 years. So this is why you aren't seeing teams let the wheels fall off and commit to the re-build. The league made it a point to de-incentivize it.

I hope this is addressed in the new CBA. We are re-building in by far the worst time to do so.

Deserve has nothing to do with it. If the Rangers had not divested themselves of the players I mentioned earlier in the span of 3 years they wouldn't have been in a position to win the lottery at all. Add those players to the Rangers this season and they're a playoff team. Can't win the lotto if you don't have a ticket. Rangers bought themselves that ticket by aggressively rebuilding. It's that same aggressiveness which has gotten them Panarin and Trouba. The same aggressiveness Gorton displayed over 10 years ago when he drafted Marchand/Kessel/Lucic, traded for Rask, and signed Chara as a FA all in the span of a couple months.

I'm just drawing a contrast between the rebuild styles of Gorton and BOS/NYR with the one employed by Holland. One involves actively and aggressively implementing a plan and pursuing a goal. The other involves passively waiting for pieces to fall into place. It's why Holland's rebuild consisted almost entirely of drafting, while ignoring trades and impact free agents. Gorton uses all 3 and his team is reaping the benefits for the 2nd time.

edit: I do agree with you about the lottery rules though. It's just the rules are what they are and you have to work with what you have. If anything the lottery odds being what they are makes utilizing trades and FA effectively that much more important.

 

[Frk It]

Deserve has nothing to do with it. If the Rangers had not divested themselves of the players I mentioned earlier in the span of 3 years they wouldn't have been in a position to win the lottery at all. Add those players to the Rangers this season and they're a playoff team. Can't win the lotto if you don't have a ticket. Rangers bought themselves that ticket by aggressively rebuilding. It's that same aggressiveness which has gotten them Panarin and Trouba. The same aggressiveness Gorton displayed over 10 years ago when he drafted Marchand/Kessel/Lucic, traded for Rask, and signed Chara as a FA all in the span of a couple months.

I'm just drawing a contrast between the rebuild styles of Gorton and BOS/NYR with the one employed by Holland. One involves actively and aggressively implementing a plan and pursuing a goal. The other involves passively waiting for pieces to fall into place. It's why Holland's rebuild consisted almost entirely of drafting, while ignoring trades and impact free agents. Gorton uses all 3 and his team is reaping the benefits for the 2nd time.

Sure, but what happened to them was an anomaly. So while I can understand your point about having a ticket vs not having a ticket....

The far more likely scenario is they did everything they did and pick 6-8. In which case you can't romanticize any of it like you did. But they cash out on 7.8% odds and get pick #2 and now we spin it a whole different way.

 

[The Zermanator]

Sure, but what happened to them was an anomaly. So while I can understand your point about having a ticket vs not having a ticket....

The far more likely scenario is they did everything they did and pick 6-8. In which case you can't romanticize any of it like you did. But they cash out on 7.8% odds and get pick #2 and now we spin it a whole different way.

We're not just talking about drafting though, if the discussion is about a wider rebuild. Adding Panarin and Trouba on top of their high pick is much better than just adding a high pick.

And them winning is not that anomalous. You said it yourself, the way the lottery odds are structured the worst teams do not have great odds of winning the lottery. That provides an opening for teams #4-8 to get lucky. They still put themselves in a position to achieve that luck.

 

[Frk It]

We're not just talking about drafting though, if the discussion is about a wider rebuild. Adding Panarin and Trouba on top of their high pick is much better than just adding a high pick.

Do they do those moves without winning the lottery? Does our off-season look differently if we win the lottery?

Getting those lottery balls to bounce in your favor changes everything... IMO

 

[The Zermanator]

Do they do those moves without winning the lottery? Does our off-season look differently if we win the lottery?

Getting those lottery balls to bounce in your favor changes everything... IMO

Just edited my previous post to add something.

But to your point, yeah I think they still do. Gorton's history running teams suggests he's never one to just sit back on his hands. Regardless of getting Kaako or not, no team should ever turn their nose up to a top pairing dman and one of the best scoring wingers in the entire league.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

In 3 years the Rangers have traded away Yandle, Stepan, Grabner, Nash, JT Miller, McDonagh, Zuccarello, and Hayes. What have the Wings done in that span? Nyquist and Tatar, that's it. There are at least 6 players in that Rangers list who are as good/better than those two. If the Rangers still had all those players they definitely wouldn't be in contention for a lottery pick. They got that #2 pick because they put themselves in that position.

Wings got 6OA because they re-arranged deck chairs on the Titanic for years until the wheels just fell off naturally. Rangers purposefully took off the wheels to get in the position they are now. They traded assets for promising youth/picks, cleared cap space, and set themselves up for the position they are in this offseason. Kaako in, Trouba in, Panarin in.

edit: Let's not forget the Rangers were in the Stanley Cup Final as recently as 2014. They actually had a very competitive team around that time. But they realized at some point that they were relying too much on Lundqvist and that the team as it was composed at the time would not find its way to the Promised Land. So they dismantled it. Actively. Contrast that with the Wings who have been much more passive. The result? Rangers added 3 stars/superstars this offseason, using all 3 of the draft, trading, and FA.

It's a lot lot easier to rebuild or be aggressive in a rebuild when you're very good, but not great.

*I mean, the Wings didn't have a Yandle to move for assets.
*They didn't have a free Stepan to deal. They've got one 1C and it's Larkin.
*Grabner is basically AA, would you have dealt AA?
*Nash... The Wings lost their Nash to concussions and because of the byzantine ruling on LTIR after the 2012 lockout, couldn't deal him AND had to play cap games or else artifically have a lower cap.
*JT Miller is basically Mantha. Would you have done Mantha for Vladislav Namestnikov?
*McDonagh. Wings didn't have a McDonagh. They went all in on the 2011 crop of D men and got **** all from any of them.
*Zuccarello. Wings could/should have signed an asset like that to be able to deal it.
*Hayes. Again, an asset Detroit didn't have.

The Rangers rebuild is going smoother than Detroit's because NYR started higher, fell harder, and got lucky as **** that they happen to be in NYC, so college FAs are dying to sign there, they're in NYC, so FAs are dying to sign there, and they're in NYC, so you have a guy like Trouba basically force his way there via a trade for a middling defenseman and a late first.

The Wings had no damn near no flexibility after the 2012 lockout and it basically ALL went away once Franzen got cheapshotted by Klinkhammer, Zetterberg ****ed up his back and had to be backpacked around by Chara at the Olympics, and Datsyuk had his ankle replaced by a dead guy's.

I mean, kudos to Jeff Gorton. He had a plan and he executed it. Everything looks really good for them right now. But it is just a lot easier to run a rebuild when you start from "We have these guys in their primes but we're not good enough" versus "We signed these guys when they were in their primes and then the league made it prohibitive for us to be proactive in dealing our best assets so instead of dealing Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk, or Kronwall before the wheels fell off... it was like "you can have Justin Abdelkader at 4.25 for the next 6 years or whatever.