Recalled/Assigned: Rasmussen recalled

[Nut Upstrom]

When Ras makes the line-up f/t it will be interesting to see who eats crow and who tries to re-frame their previous comments...

To say anyone with even borderline NHL talent, especially if they potential to improve, can't make X NHL team because they aren't on the Wings Roster is facile and reductive to the extreme.

Everything is context sensitive. A far better team may see in value in lining up with Rasmussen if they are short on size, short at centre or need a good PP screener, particularly if they have the strength in other positions to cover some of his deficiencies. Also other teams may not be deliberately keeping half their better prospects down due to tanking/rebuild timelines/player assessment ahead of expansion draft etc etc.

The Wings are a team currently playing in a very specific way, with specific goals and to certain timelines. Unless Rasmussen was a definite bona-fide 2nd line center NOW, it makes no sense for the wings to bring him up for a full time gig. Similarly they prioritised Veleno & the Manhaim Hammer's development over the maximising of this years NHL roster. Similarly they prioritised stable FAs on short term contracts.

There are better NHL teams than Detroit where 2-3 of Ras, Seider, Veleno, Svech and maybe even Cholowski would be on the roster most nights.

Rasmussen's never going to be an exciting player, but he might be an effective one.

I'd love to have had this forum around in the 90s - I can see the comments now at various times in the decade

Yzerman's great but he's a choker in the playoffs
Holmstrom will never be an NHL player
Lidstrom needs to get tougher if he's ever going to be elite
Why are we trading for Larionov/Chelios, he's too old to be useful
Kieth Primeau will be the future of this Franchise
Why would anyone trade away Paul Coffey?
Kris Draper? Kurt Maltby? Why are we bothering with these bums?
Darren Mccarty will be a 60 point player, mark my words

etc etc

You make a fair point, but Ras just does not seem NHL ready and I doubt that playing for a better team will change that. Im a big believer in Ras and i think he's going to be a gamer in a few years, the team just needs to stay patient with him. Of course expecting patience from the HF crowd is laughable. I bet you are spot on with the example of theoretical quotes from the 90s. Good stuff.

 

[Shaman464]

Ever seen a screener on the PP ?

And he could be the best faceoff guy, who is CRITICAL to start the puck control on PP.

Rasmussen has those special tools, but we don't have the legit skill guys to run the PP. He will be Tomas Holmström 2.0 with faceoff ability in his prime.

He has those skills nobody in this team is currently having. Except if you don't want Glendening on the PP. But if we project things, few years in the future, Glendening is not in the team and Rasmussen is in prime and he has those elite players around him running the PP. Just like Holmström had Lidström, Zetterberg, Datsyuk and a 5th guy like Franzen. Or Shanahan, Yzerman, Fedorov + Lidström in the older days.

Holmström would have been useless without the elite guys around him, but became the master complimentary player with them. Abdelkader inherited the Holmström destiny, those elite guys leaving one by one, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Zetterberg. We did see the results. Wrong place in wrong time.

Rasmussen is the guy on the same way, more on the Holmström than Abdelkader way, because he'll get his Raymonds and guys around.

I have to believe you're too young to remember Holmstrom. Because Homer and Ras are about as far apart in skill sets as you'll ever seen.

 

[Shaman464]

When Ras makes the line-up f/t it will be interesting to see who eats crow and who tries to re-frame their previous comments...

To say anyone with even borderline NHL talent, especially if they potential to improve, can't make X NHL team because they aren't on the Wings Roster is facile and reductive to the extreme.

Everything is context sensitive. A far better team may see in value in lining up with Rasmussen if they are short on size, short at centre or need a good PP screener, particularly if they have the strength in other positions to cover some of his deficiencies. Also other teams may not be deliberately keeping half their better prospects down due to tanking/rebuild timelines/player assessment ahead of expansion draft etc etc.

The Wings are a team currently playing in a very specific way, with specific goals and to certain timelines. Unless Rasmussen was a definite bona-fide 2nd line center NOW, it makes no sense for the wings to bring him up for a full time gig. Similarly they prioritised Veleno & the Manhaim Hammer's development over the maximising of this years NHL roster. Similarly they prioritised stable FAs on short term contracts.

There are better NHL teams than Detroit where 2-3 of Ras, Seider, Veleno, Svech and maybe even Cholowski would be on the roster most nights.

Rasmussen's never going to be an exciting player, but he might be an effective one.

I'd love to have had this forum around in the 90s - I can see the comments now at various times in the decade

Yzerman's great but he's a choker in the playoffs
Holmstrom will never be an NHL player
Lidstrom needs to get tougher if he's ever going to be elite
Why are we trading for Larionov/Chelios, he's too old to be useful
Kieth Primeau will be the future of this Franchise
Why would anyone trade away Paul Coffey?
Kris Draper? Kurt Maltby? Why are we bothering with these bums?
Darren Mccarty will be a 60 point player, mark my words

etc etc

There are no NHL teams that would have Cholo or Veleno playing. Cholo is such a defensive liability, even if he was putting up 0.5ppg most teams would still pass on him. And Veleno is struggling in a 2nd tier league.

 

[Frk It]

When Ras makes the line-up f/t it will be interesting to see who eats crow and who tries to re-frame their previous comments...

What do you think he will do when he does? What type of impact do you see him having?

 

[Shaman464]

What do you think he will do when he does? What type of impact do you see him having?

They're comparing him to Homer because somehow going to the front of the net means he's Homer 2.0. They're too young to remember that Homer had insane eye hand coordination and wasn't just screening and getting lucky deflections/tap ins.

 

[Hen Kolland]

There are no NHL teams that would have Cholo or Veleno playing. Cholo is such a defensive liability, even if he was putting up 0.5ppg most teams would still pass on him. And Veleno is struggling in a 2nd tier league.

I wouldn’t characterize Veleno as struggling in a 2nd tier league. And I know you aren’t watching said 2nd tier league closely to know better.

 

[Shaman464]

I wouldn’t characterize Veleno as struggling in a 2nd tier league. And I know you aren’t watching said 2nd tier league closely to know better.

NHL is the first tier league. I would put the KHL as between tier 1/2. The AHL/SHL/FEL/Czech leagues are second tier. And he's a guy whos played against as good or better talent and is currently 125th in ppg and around 90th in scoring. He's not putting up numbers that would justify him making the NHL on any team today.

 

[Henkka]

I have to believe you're too young to remember Holmstrom. Because Homer and Ras are about as far apart in skill sets as you'll ever seen.

Don't think so. I was 19 when Homer debuted in Red Wings (his player number year) and seen big part of the games since 2002.

Tomas Holmström - se maskimies

I've also written this column to Finnish leading hockey website 15 years ago.

 

[Shaman464]

Don't think so. I was 19 when Homer debuted in Red Wings and seen big part of the games since 2002.

Then how can you make that comparison? Many many players play net front. Only Joe Pavelski would be comparable to Homer in actual skill set. Homer wasn't just some 6'6'' dude that screened the goalie and created space to get garbage goals. He lived off of vision and hand/eye coordination. Just because they play the same area of the ice (potentially), doesn't make them at all comparable.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I didn't expect to see Tomas Holmstrom become underrated by Wings fans.

He wasn't fast, but he was a very high-IQ player, and his ability to work the puck in tight was incredibly valuable to the Red Wings. Rasmussen does not show that type of IQ, and I do not see him being nearly as effective with the puck so far.

The only similarity I can see is that Rasmussen has been thought of to be a future net-front guy, which is so vague it is barely a comparison.

 

[Hen Kolland]

NHL is the first tier league. I would put the KHL as between tier 1/2. The AHL/SHL/FEL/Czech leagues are second tier. And he's a guy whos played against as good or better talent and is currently 125th in ppg and around 90th in scoring. He's not putting up numbers that would justify him making the NHL on any team today.

See that's my point. If you aren't able to watch the games and watch what he's doing on the ice, you can't come to a complete conclusion. You're taking in a part of the picture, but not the whole picture. I'm not arguing that the SHL is on par with the NHL, I'm arguing against the assertion that he's floundering in that league. He looks comfortable and competent, on a mediocre team. I think his counting stats would be more palatable if he landed on a better SHL team.

 

[Ezekial]

Situations matter. I mean shit, Brome had 20 in 23 and Hoglander has 14 in 23 in the SHL before coming over.

Now Brome has 1 in 23 and Hoglander has 10 in 27

Can we not act like there's some sort of conversion factor for production from one league to another. There's like 1000 different variables.

 

[MBH]

There are no NHL teams that would have Cholo or Veleno playing. Cholo is such a defensive liability, even if he was putting up 0.5ppg most teams would still pass on him. And Veleno is struggling in a 2nd tier league.

Chicago has 2 defensive liabilities in their lineup every night.
They deal with it. Because that's how they learn.
Veleno isn't lighting it up, but he's far from struggling.

 

[MBH]

I didn't expect to see Tomas Holmstrom become underrated by Wings fans.

He wasn't fast, but he was a very high-IQ player, and his ability to work the puck in tight was incredibly valuable to the Red Wings. Rasmussen does not show that type of IQ, and I do not see him being nearly as effective with the puck so far.

The only similarity I can see is that Rasmussen has been thought of to be a future net-front guy, which is so vague it is barely a comparison.

Some of these folks aren't old enough to have watched Holmstrom at his best.

 

[Ezekial]

Idk I don't think this particular sub is crawling with zoomers. I think it's pretty likely many of us are 30+.

I definitely watched his entire career, but I was 8 years old when he started, not exactly like I knew the intricacies of the game inside and out when I was watching him in his early career.

 

[Frk It]

Situations matter. I mean shit, Brome had 20 in 23 and Hoglander has 14 in 23 in the SHL before coming over.

Now Brome has 1 in 23 and Hoglander has 10 in 27

Can we not act like there's some sort of conversion factor for production from one league to another. There's like 1000 different variables.

This. This is why you have amateur/pro scouts, that evaluate and project traits.

 

[lomekian]

They're comparing him to Homer because somehow going to the front of the net means he's Homer 2.0. They're too young to remember that Homer had insane eye hand coordination and wasn't just screening and getting lucky deflections/tap ins.

Firstly, I never mentioned Holmstrom with reference to Rasmussen. Secondly, Rasmussen has actually shown very good hand eye at junior and AHL level (and in preseason for the wings + 1 or two NHL games). Will he be as good as Homer in front of the net? Very very unlikely. But bar working in the corners (and maybe along the boards), Rasmussen is stronger in every other aspect of the game, so suggesting he could have a similar impact is hardly madness

 

[MBH]

Firstly, I never mentioned Holmstrom with reference to Rasmussen. Secondly, Rasmussen has actually shown very good hand eye at junior and AHL level (and in preseason for the wings + 1 or two NHL games). Will he be as good as Homer in front of the net? Very very unlikely. But bar working in the corners (and maybe along the boards), Rasmussen is stronger in every other aspect of the game, so suggesting he could have a similar impact is hardly madness

Rasmussen isn't any better than Holmstrom at skating the puck up the ice.
And he's definitely not better than Holmstrom at completing or taking passes on the rush.

 

[MBH]

Idk I don't think this particular sub is crawling with zoomers. I think it's pretty likely many of us are 30+.

I definitely watched his entire career, but I was 8 years old when he started, not exactly like I knew the intricacies of the game inside and out when I was watching him in his early career.

Holmstrom definitely grew his IQ and passing ability as he aged.
He was a nightmare with the puck early in his career.

 

[lomekian]

What do you think he will do when he does? What type of impact do you see him having?

3rd line center, or 2way winger who is very comfortable playing up the line-up.
Defensively strong, decent but not great passer, good at faceoffs, big net front threat on PP, net neutral ES player with maybe 1 or 2 big plus seasons if the right chemistry is formed with line-mates.

30-40 point player most season, possibly the odd 50-60 point season if the team gets strong enough. Still has the outside chance of exceeding that at his peak, but that's pretty low % now.

I think when we have more than 2 or 3 genuine skill players on the roster, Rasmussen will show his value - as someone who can play with those guys but bring a very different offering.

He needs to get the strength to really use his frame, and he needs to process things a bit quicker and become more assertive.

But most very big forwards who aren't just grinders in the NHL bar the elite ones have taken time to find their games, but if they do, spend a few years being very effective for their teams.

I see Rasmussen as a guy who probably will never put up the points of Necas or Vilardi, but could be of greater value to a playoff team. I certainly see him as someone who could be a good fit on a roster with Zadina & Raymond for example. For the balance of our future team, we have to hope he keeps on progressing - he has, after all, shown progression every year.

 

[19 for president]

Homer's skills were built through hundreds of hours practicing tips, deflections, and net front positioning. There is a reason Bowman told him he'd be lucky to last a year in the NHL. I disagree on Ras being a better skater. Homer especially in his later years with D & Z was a terrible skater, but once he was parked in front of the net he didn't need to skate. There are very few players in NHL history that were as skilled in that spot as Homer, but it was learned and developed. Ras could learn it, but it requires a level of fearlessness and stubbornness that a lot of players don't have.

What Ras has going for him is that he is a mountain in front of the net, has decent hands and he has the potential to dominant on faceoffs. That is actually a pretty big deal because it allows you to load up on shooters/ playmakers on your wings. Not having to sacrifice a role on the ice to get control of the puck right away with a good faceoff man really helps a team. Like right now we could use Glenny on the PP to get us the puck, but he'd be useless afterwards. He'd immediately need to go change.

What I hope for Ras is a Jordan Staal type role in his Pittsburgh days. Hopefully the Wings can land another center to go with Larks and Ras can be that defensive pain 3rd line center/ PP specialist. A matchup nightmare for other teams that allows one of our top 2 lines to be able to really exploit the other team.

With that said, I wish they had taken a guy like Necas in that spot, as 9 is a bit high for a net front PP guy, but I still think Ras could develop into a very useful player for the Wings. Also remember that huge guys like Ras often don't really turn the development corner until they are mid 20s. For some reason it typically takes them longer to learn their bodies/ coordination.

 

[lomekian]

I didn't expect to see Tomas Holmstrom become underrated by Wings fans.

He wasn't fast, but he was a very high-IQ player, and his ability to work the puck in tight was incredibly valuable to the Red Wings. Rasmussen does not show that type of IQ, and I do not see him being nearly as effective with the puck so far.

The only similarity I can see is that Rasmussen has been thought of to be a future net-front guy, which is so vague it is barely a comparison.

Ras & Homer don't have a lot in common. But its worth remembering how Holmstrom's first NHL season at 23/24 was totally unrecognisable to the player we later saw, bar the terrible skating.

Rasmussen is 21 and DOES have great hand-eye. You are right that at this stage is IQ on ice not in the same ball park as peak Homer or indeed his ability to dominate his personal space/wingspan. But he's still a kid. If not for stupid CBA rules, Rasmussen would have had a better development path to this point. Also worth remembering that he's missed a lot of hockey since drafted, so developmentally is probably still 20 as it were.

Its incredibly unlikely he'll be as good as Homer at the things Homer was best at, but he doesn't need to be to be an overall equally or more effective hockey player, because Homer had a lot of limitations that meant he could only play up the line up with very specific other players. Rasmussen will be a lot more flexible.

And to be clear, I loved Homer, and for a few years he was the best in the NHL in front of the net and down low near the net. But he was a specialist weapon, rather than Rasmussen's likely swiss army knife

 

[lomekian]

Situations matter. I mean shit, Brome had 20 in 23 and Hoglander has 14 in 23 in the SHL before coming over.

Now Brome has 1 in 23 and Hoglander has 10 in 27

Can we not act like there's some sort of conversion factor for production from one league to another. There's like 1000 different variables.

Funnily enough, its also easier to do better on teams that are competing in their league vs teams who are plumbing the depths.

If Veleno was playing with Berggren and Froden on his wings rather than for the lowest scoring team in the SHL, its likely he would be putting up more points ;-)

 

[lomekian]

Idk I don't think this particular sub is crawling with zoomers. I think it's pretty likely many of us are 30+.

I definitely watched his entire career, but I was 8 years old when he started, not exactly like I knew the intricacies of the game inside and out when I was watching him in his early career.

I actually started watching hockey and chose to follow the Wings the year before Homer came over (It was when I started at University). In his first year I could never have seen the player he became.

 

[lomekian]

Rasmussen isn't any better than Holmstrom at skating the puck up the ice.
And he's definitely not better than Holmstrom at completing or taking passes on the rush.

I'd say marginally better at the former. Not as good at the latter compared to peak Homer for sure, but I don't remember Homer being that good at it in his early-mid 20s