Tribute Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread

[biotk]

I just laugh at the non Leafs fans on the main board who see nothing wrong with the hit from behind on Sandin by Comeau, because some didn't even think it's a dirty hit and it was the correct call not giving him at least 2:00 for boarding.

It was an obvious boarding penalty. The real problem though is that Babcock essentially told heavy teams that if you target Sandin the Leafs' response will be to sit him on the bench and then remove him the lineup.

 

[93LEAFS]

No, you can head back to your posts if you want. It was an excuse. I said he shouldn't be getting under 14 minutes a game. You chastised that (factual) statement by saying that was due to Babcock and now with Keefe things had changed. Well they haven't. You also said that if he plays well he'll get an opportunity, except as a reward for being the best player in the game on Monday he got to sit on the bench the next game.

The whole point of the development plan expressed by Dubas a couple years ago was the idea of the seamless transition. You play the same systems on the Marlies and the Leafs and you ensure prospects are ready when they are brought up so that when they are brought up they are not only ready to stay up but also ready to move seamlessly into the open role. There is no role on the Leafs defense which plays under 2 minutes in the final 25 minutes of the game. This isn't a third pairing role - its a quasi third pairing role. A player is either ready or they not. If they are ready then they should be used appropriately. If they are not then they shouldn't be used. This would have been the equivalent of bringing Nylander up in the spring of 2016, but playing him 7 minutes a game on the fourth line. This in between **** is bad development, a complete waste, and teams that consistently develop really good D don't do this.

You do realize Josi got the exact same usage to start his career right? Maybe start complaining if this is still the case after game twenty or thirty. I mean, I think Nashville is one of the best teams in the league at developing D. Look at how Ellis and Josi were used early on. Also, Ekholm had large stints where he constantly fluctuated between 12-18 minutes a game.

Are you going to say Nashville doesn't know how to develop defencemen? I really can't think of a team that has developed them better over the past 15 years.

 

[Ulysses31]

was it me or did sandin look good today? looked posed from the 50% of the game I saw

 

[Martin Skoula]

You do realize Josi got the exact same usage to start his career right? Maybe start complaining if this is still the case after game twenty or thirty. I mean, I think Nashville is one of the best teams in the league at developing D. Look at how Ellis and Josi were used early on. Also, Ekholm had large stints where he constantly fluctuated between 12-18 minutes a game.

Are you going to say Nashville doesn't know how to develop defencemen? I really can't think of a team that has developed them better over the past 15 years.

Josi had 10 games of sheltered minutes and then never played below 15 for the rest of the season. There's a clear 10-game adjustment period and then he's playing top-4 minutes consistently.

 

[93LEAFS]

Josi had 10 games of sheltered minutes and then never played below 15 for the rest of the season. There's a clear 10-game adjustment period and then he's playing top-4 minutes consistently.

He has multiple games below 18 throughout the rest of the year. He also got easy TOI QOC matchups too on average for the season. This is game 5 of Sandin's second stint up. If they don't have bigger plans for him, he will probably go back down when Rielly gets back.

 

[Mess]

Dallas was certainly take a run at Sandin all game including Benn.

To his credit Sandin took a licking and keep on ticking.

 

[LeafGrief]

I thought he had a tough game last night. He got run by Polak and that shitty hit by Comeau, and I feel like I'm forgetting some Jamie Benn shit in there. Had a few good looks, but not nearly as much time and space as he was carving out in the Nashville game. In particular, he got walked by Corey Perry in the 2nd and I'm sure he'll be reviewing the tape for that today so that it doesn't happen again. Despite that, I'm quite surprised that he only got ~13 minutes. He's obviously an NHL calibre player and he still manages to make a ton of smart plays and be a positive contributor in a "tough game".

But for the life of me I cannot tell what the actual f*** is going on in this thread. Rasmus Dahlin played 13 minutes in a game against Dallas two weeks ago. He played 15 against Florida three weeks ago. I get the feeling that he's going to be a #1 some day. How many minutes he plays in games 10-15 of his career is not indicative of a limited ceiling, good lord.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The key is not to get too UP when he plays a great game against a big slow team like Preds and not get too DOWN when he struggles against a big fast team like Stars. He will work with Barb this summer on his straight line speed and I'm sure he will be better prepared for next season. But what I really love is when a big guy comes down on him thinking he is going to whack him a big one and then guys like Benn realize afterwards what core strength and balance he has. I have not seen a guy in long while who can withstand the big blows like Sandin. He is fearless. I love it.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I thought he had a tough game last night. He got run by Polak and that ****ty hit by Comeau, and I feel like I'm forgetting some Jamie Benn **** in there. Had a few good looks, but not nearly as much time and space as he was carving out in the Nashville game. In particular, he got walked by Corey Perry in the 2nd and I'm sure he'll be reviewing the tape for that today so that it doesn't happen again. Despite that, I'm quite surprised that he only got ~13 minutes. He's obviously an NHL calibre player and he still manages to make a ton of smart plays and be a positive contributor in a "tough game".

But for the life of me I cannot tell what the actual **** is going on in this thread. Rasmus Dahlin played 13 minutes in a game against Dallas two weeks ago. He played 15 against Florida three weeks ago. I get the feeling that he's going to be a #1 some day. How many minutes he plays in games 10-15 of his career is not indicative of a limited ceiling, good lord.

Dahlin is a baby still. Too many people have totally unrealistic expectations of young dmen. He will be a Norris candidate one day. It may be 3-5 years out after he learns the game. Defense is and has always been a very tough position to learn. It takes a number of games played to understand and see everything that can come at you and what to do in each circumstance. It takes a much better understanding of your strengths and weaknesses relative to each circumstance. It takes a VET to help you speed up the learning curve. It takes the right skill development plan. It takes the right partners at different points in time. There are so many variables.
Now if you are Bobby Orr it does not matter because it matters when a guy is playing at a totally different level then everyone else such that he makes the league look like house league opposition for him. If a guy can skate with the puck for an entire 2 minute PK by himself without giving up the puck then folks you are only left with 1 option which is sad but try to take his knees out. It becomes a man against a boy game.

 

[fahad203]

Dahlin is a baby still. Too many people have totally unrealistic expectations of young dmen. He will be a Norris candidate one day. It may be 3-5 years out after he learns the game. Defense is and has always been a very tough position to learn. It takes a number of games played to understand and see everything that can come at you and what to do in each circumstance. It takes a much better understanding of your strengths and weaknesses relative to each circumstance. It takes a VET to help you speed up the learning curve. It takes the right skill development plan. It takes the right partners at different points in time. There are so many variables.
Now if you are Bobby Orr it does not matter because it matters when a guy is playing at a totally different level then everyone else such that he makes the league look like house league opposition for him. If a guy can skate with the puck for an entire 2 minute PK by himself without giving up the puck then folks you are only left with 1 option which is sad but try to take his knees out. It becomes a man against a boy game.

Exactly. It took Hedman few years to become a monster

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

The key is not to get too UP when he plays a great game against a big slow team like Preds and not get too DOWN when he struggles against a big fast team like Stars. He will work with Barb this summer on his straight line speed and I'm sure he will be better prepared for next season. But what I really love is when a big guy comes down on him thinking he is going to whack him a big one and then guys like Benn realize afterwards what core strength and balance he has. I have not seen a guy in long while who can withstand the big blows like Sandin. He is fearless. I love it.

I don't see anyone getting down on him, except fans from other teams in another thread. Just because he got knocked down a couple times, doesn't mean he played a bad game.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't see anyone getting down on him, except fans from other teams in another thread. Just because he got knocked down a couple times, doesn't mean he played a bad game.

Not at all. I think I have missed only a few of his home games the past 2 seasons when on vacation. You will very very rarely see him on his *ss. He is extremely diseiving in his core strength. He has a ton of potential.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I thought he had a tough game last night. He got run by Polak and that ****ty hit by Comeau, and I feel like I'm forgetting some Jamie Benn **** in there. Had a few good looks, but not nearly as much time and space as he was carving out in the Nashville game. In particular, he got walked by Corey Perry in the 2nd and I'm sure he'll be reviewing the tape for that today so that it doesn't happen again. Despite that, I'm quite surprised that he only got ~13 minutes. He's obviously an NHL calibre player and he still manages to make a ton of smart plays and be a positive contributor in a "tough game".

But for the life of me I cannot tell what the actual **** is going on in this thread. Rasmus Dahlin played 13 minutes in a game against Dallas two weeks ago. He played 15 against Florida three weeks ago. I get the feeling that he's going to be a #1 some day. How many minutes he plays in games 10-15 of his career is not indicative of a limited ceiling, good lord.

We get the only penalty after that comeau hit ffs what a joke these refs are. Ok with that rant sentence over . “ We need to protect our players”. Dubas needs to protect our players. Thats it, I’m done

 

[DALLER66]

This kid will be just fine .. he’s a keeper .. he will learn how to a avoid hits overtime ..

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This kid will be just fine .. he’s a keeper .. he will learn how to a avoid hits overtime ..

I hope he avoids them blindsides from behind really good. I think i would get angry enough to scrap Comeau there if I’m young again lol. Yeah I’d hit him. Busted nose for him there might be fair ha. Who cares if he’d wipe the ice with me after

 

[Stephen]

Dallas was certainly take a run at Sandin all game including Benn.

To his credit Sandin took a licking and keep on ticking.

Sandin needs to drop a guy with a cheap shot to establish himself in the prison yard that’s NHL hockey. Don’t remember it it was Ron Francis or some other gentlemanly player who said you had to get psychotic once in a while to keep people honest around you. Especially as a smaller rookie on D. If he doesn’t you’ll start seeing some wear and tear and injury issues pile up.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Sandin needs to drop a guy with a cheap shot to establish himself in the prison yard that’s NHL hockey. Don’t remember it it was Ron Francis or some other gentlemanly player who said you had to get psychotic once in a while to keep people honest around you. Especially as a smaller rookie on D. If he doesn’t you’ll start seeing some wear and tear and injury issues pile up.

Francis played at the back end of the most violent era in the NHL's history, its definitely not the same today. Look what's going on in the battle of Alberta right now, that wouldn't have been league-wide news in the 80's.

This is just anecdotal, but how often do you see guys get hurt from scrums? Being willing to cheap shot won't keep you from being targeted with hits, probably the opposite, but you'll end up in a lot more shoving matches

 

[Stephen]

Francis played at the back end of the most violent era in the NHL's history, its definitely not the same today. Look what's going on in the battle of Alberta right now, that wouldn't have been league-wide news in the 80's.

This is just anecdotal, but how often do you see guys get hurt from scrums? Being willing to cheap shot won't keep you from being targeted with hits, probably the opposite, but you'll end up in a lot more shoving matches

Not scrums but if Blake Comeau is pushing you around all night and boarding you, next time he’s on a forecheck just get your stick up. Way up. Take the cross checking penalty and establish you’re not a soft target.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Not scrums but if Blake Comeau is pushing you around all night and boarding you, next time he’s on a forecheck just get your stick up. Way up. Take the cross checking penalty and establish you’re not a soft target.

if the premise is to prevent injuries, are guys really getting hurt getting pushed around? I think if you're cross checking a guy in the face on a clean forecheck, the target you're inviting on to your back is much more likely to get you hurt than learning to feel pressure, avoid hits and absorb hits

if you're referring to the one specific hit where Comeau pushed Sandin into the boards from dangerous distance from behind, the officials should be dealing with that, Kerfoot was suspended for something very similar. That's a league problem not an on-ice problem for this team

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

if the premise is to prevent injuries, are guys really getting hurt getting pushed around? I think if you're cross checking a guy in the face on a clean forecheck, the target you're inviting on to your back is much more likely to get you hurt than learning to feel pressure, avoid hits and absorb hits

if you're referring to the one specific hit where Comeau pushed Sandin into the boards from dangerous distance from behind, the officials should be dealing with that, Kerfoot was suspended for something very similar. That's a league problem not an on-ice problem for this team

I remember a game some time ago.....I forget which rat it was but he was taking big runs at guys.....I was shaking my head because there's big Laraques doing nothing. Know who stopped it? Gonchar. One swift cross check to the face while the guy was coming in like a torpedo. The rat basically disappeared the rest of the game.

 

[Apotheosis]

He reminds me of Roman Josi.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I remember a game some time ago.....I forget which rat it was but he was taking big runs at guys.....I was shaking my head because there's big Laraques doing nothing. Know who stopped it? Gonchar. One swift cross check to the face while the guy was coming in like a torpedo. The rat basically disappeared the rest of the game.

Rats will never fight Laraques. When you're a guy with a 5-year expected career, losing a chunk of your league minimum contract hurts if you get suspended over it.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I remember a game some time ago.....I forget which rat it was but he was taking big runs at guys.....I was shaking my head because there's big Laraques doing nothing. Know who stopped it? Gonchar. One swift cross check to the face while the guy was coming in like a torpedo. The rat basically disappeared the rest of the game.

Adding more goons to the league or teaching clean players to goon is like advocating for more gun ownership to protect against dangerous people with guns, just doesnt work in practice

The league is moving in the right direction, need to hit dirty players in their wallets more and it will keep getting better

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Adding more goons to the league or teaching clean players to goon is like advocating for more gun ownership to protect against dangerous people with guns, just doesnt work in practice

The league is moving in the right direction, need to hit dirty players in their wallets more and it will keep getting better

Sure but they don't and evidence indicates a quick shot to the chops settles things down.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Sandin needs to drop a guy with a cheap shot to establish himself in the prison yard that’s NHL hockey. Don’t remember it it was Ron Francis or some other gentlemanly player who said you had to get psychotic once in a while to keep people honest around you. Especially as a smaller rookie on D. If he doesn’t you’ll start seeing some wear and tear and injury issues pile up.

I hope not. I have seen him take many big hits with Marlies and now again with Leafs. He is clearly not afraid of taking the hits. It does not change his game which I love. While I agree it is good to keep people honest I don't think it is going to be Sandin who does it. He needs a vet partner right now, maybe Ceci is OK (although I am still not convinced), who can help him through this issue. But agree we don't want him taking so many huge hits. At some point the injury bug will bite its ugly head. And I realize i am from the stone age here but I guess it is what I am used to but it would be nice every once in a blue moon to have a 7th dman or a 4th line winger who can just go nuts on someone who reefs our kids like Dermy or Sandin or Mitch or Willy or Matty. Clearly the NHL and its band of game managing refs are not doing it. I am sure it drives Shanny nuts. It must take all his will power not to instruct Dubie to get us someone who can manage the ice for us. I think many of us are near the edge on this issue.