Tribute Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread

[Ulysses31]

would like to see him on top PP!

 

[Muston Atthews]

He has a nice shot that gets through

 

[OB34KNH]

This guy oughta get more minutes. Why are we playing him 5 minutes of ES a night? What's the point of calling him up? Sink or Swim.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

how does Sandin only play 12 minutes in a game where Rielly and Dermott are out, and against such a bad team? I like most of what Keefe is doing but that's nonsensical

Sandin had a very poor game against Stars. Coaching is largely retroactive. My guess is that's it. I think they are trying to match him up against the bigger slower lines where his game really elevates like versus Preds.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The kid has the most important tool. He has a brain. Looks like the smartest d the leafs have. All he has to do now is follow Rielly into the training room. A bit of mass along with his normal filling out and he will be perfect.

Agreed and work with Barb over summer to increase his foot speed ... once this kid gets NHL speed look out ...

 

[OB34KNH]

Agreed and work with Barb over summer to increase his foot speed ... once this kid gets NHL speed look out ...

So what you're saying is he's not NHL ready right now? Good to know, send him down.

That's why Keefe gives him like 5 ES minutes per night. What's the point of having a guy that gets 5 minutes per night.

 

[Antropovsky]

He is a teenager in the NHL, and undersized, playing one of the most difficult positions. Leafs are in a playoff battle.... i think it makes alot of sense that he is being eased into the NHL. Especially with how much opponents are targeting him physically.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

So what you're saying is he's not NHL ready right now? Good to know, send him down.

That's why Keefe gives him like 5 ES minutes per night. What's the point of having a guy that gets 5 minutes per night.

He is making a quantum jump from minor pro to the NHL. He has incredible gifts. I think someone said on here he has best hockey IQ on our defense which i agree with. He is likely best passer and has best hands right now too. He can turn on his edges like no one else as well. He needs to work on his straight line foot speed. You could see it with Marlies it hit you in the face. It was obvious. When he plays a very fast AHL team like checkers he has enormous trouble connecting on his passes because he is step slow. But even with that weakness I would put him ahead of Marincin by quite a margin. I like him better then Ceci overall too. and I have more faith in him than Barrie in our end of ice.
He is not at level of Muzz, Rielly, Dermy or Holl yet. He is playing where he should be. and it is quite normal for a youngster to be used in this capacity.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It can't get any clearer that when Keefe looks down the bench at his options he doesn't view Sandin as one.

OFFS. It's his first few games and they're going to ease him in to different situations...

 

[biotk]

OFFS. It's his first few games and they're going to ease him in to different situations...

People said the exact same thing in October. They were wrong, as usual. In this very thread people were all outraged that someone would bring up Sandin's ice time because "he's played over 15 minutes a game every game under Keefe - the low ice time was due to Babcock" and then he played an average of 12:15 a game under his next two games under Keefe.

I haven't updated my list to account for the last game (as Sandin has now played 12 games), but hockey-reference records ice-time going back to 1998. During that time 63 D have played at least 11 games as teenagers. They averaged almost 18 minutes a game in their first 11 games. And if you look at the top 2/3rds in terms of average ice time - more than 95% became really good D in the NHL. If you look at the bottom 1/3rd most didn't become anything. Mathieu Biron, 21st OA, Steve McCarthy 23rd OA, Jiri Fischer 25th OA, Kristian Kudroc 2 OA and Connor Carrick are all good examples. Sandin is not only in the bottom third - he is near the bottom of the bottom third.

My position is not based on mindless RAH, RAH, RAH my team can do no wrong and I am a brainless fan. It is based on all the evidence and the evidence is overwhelming. Young D need to play. They develop intuition by gaining experience. Not by sitting on the bench against one of the worst teams in the NHL.

The best out of that bottom bunch is probably Dumba - his team had the sense to send him down for the rest of the year after 13 games. Boqvist also had low ice time (not Sandin low, but low) over his first 11 games. However over the past dozen games he has been getting almost 20 minutes a game and playing with Keith. Chicago is trying to develop a great D (something they have done before) and Boqvist was coming out of junior, so an adjustment period to ease the player in could be more justified. One of the major planks of the Leafs development strategy is supposed to be the seamless transition between the Marlies and Leafs, but that is not what is happening here. The team is sacrificing Sandin's development because they feel that him in the lineup increases the Leafs' chances of winning their next game slightly. Not a good move. They are not easing him into new situations. They are destroying his confidence twice in a row.

Average ice time over their first 11 NHL games (among D who played at least 11 games as teenagers):

Hedman - 25:01
Jones - 24:44
McAvoy - 23:45
Larsson - 23:38
Carlo - 22:31
Brodin - 22:18
Ekblad - 21:53
Stuart - 21:49
Doughty - 21:44
Faulk - 21:44
Werenski - 21:42
Kaberle - 21:41
Schenn - 21:29
Heiskanen - 21:14
Trouba - 21:06
Jokiharju - 20:53
Fowler - 20:50
Myers - 20:44
MEV - 19:56
Provorov - 19:49
Girard - 19:40
Lindholm - 19:27
OEL - 19:01
Hamilton - 18:53
Dahlin - 18:52
etc.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He is a teenager in the NHL, and undersized, playing one of the most difficult positions. Leafs are in a playoff battle.... i think it makes alot of sense that he is being eased into the NHL. Especially with how much opponents are targeting him physically.

Leafs are in a playoff battle, which is why they should be playing one of their best defensemen more than Marincin. How does it make sense that Sandin could handle 16 minutes last week but now isn't even good enough for 12? Shouldn't he be playing more and more as he's being eased in? He's simply not being utilized.

As far as being targeted physically, that's what it looks like when you're willing to take a hit to make the right play. He also doesn't shy away from throwing hits

 

[biotk]

As far as being targeted physically, that's what it looks like when you're willing to take a hit to make the right play. He also doesn't shy away from throwing hits

It's also the case that Leafs have both removed Sandin from the lineup after being hit hard by Detroit in October and have cut back his ice time when targeted physically by Dallas and Ottawa. If you are an opposing team who is worried about a young D who has 5 points in last 6 games, the Leafs have told you exactly what to do - If you hit him we will sit him.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It's also the case that Leafs have both removed Sandin from the lineup after being hit hard by Detroit in October and have cut back his ice time when targeted physically by Dallas and Ottawa. If you are an opposing team who is worried about a young D who has 5 points in last 6 games, the Leafs have told you exactly what to do - If you hit him we will sit him.

Good point. Not only does it send a message to Sandin to avoid contact at all costs if you want to keep playing, it also encourages opposing teams to take runs at him and cause an already depleted Leafs defense to basically play with 5 guys. It's just an awful approach. Especially since Sandin seems to do very well in the physical game, as he's great at using leverage and is fearless out there

 

[hector morrison]

I understand where you are at. If you only watch the Leafs then you are only seeing a partial of Sandin like 10 games worth. But quite a few of us have watched him past 2 years game in game out. I think his upside is huge like I said 2 years ago he has #1 NHL potential in him. I have seen him be the best player on the ice for 2 rounds of playoff games and then royally suck in round 3 against a much faster team. He can turn in a phone booth, has great hands, amazing smarts and a top notch hockey IQ. He also looks amazing against bigger slower teams. He can withstand huge hits and stay upright. But he can also look a little slow against big fast teams and give up the puck huge many times a game with his outlet passes. Watch the checkers playoff games and you will see it for yourself. His straight line speed is not the best. He needs to work on this issue to become a top end 1st liner. And this is an issue that is the hardest to fix for a pro player. So before anointing him or Lily to top 4 roles do a little due diligence and give him some time and space to develop. These kids need a couple years to learn the NHL game. Neither of these kids is Bobby Orr who can come into the league and be the league's best player on day 1.

Nice assessment ...Just to follow up,I have watched him make plenty of mistakes recently. To be expected. He does seem to learn from them though. As in,he isn't making the same mistakes over and over again. He needs to go around the block once or twice to see what its all about. All in all,I think he will be a gem.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Nice assessment ...Just to follow up,I have watched him make plenty of mistakes recently. To be expected. He does seem to learn from them though. As in,he isn't making the same mistakes over and over again. He needs to go around the block once or twice to see what its all about. All in all,I think he will be a gem.

I do too. But many on here are expecting it right away. It will not happen like that. I hope it does not take 500 games but that should be a realistic expectation. 250 games in a bottom pairing role. 150 games in a 2nd pairing role and last 100 in top pair. Then assuming he has the right partners (which he does not today) he will get there.

 

[hector morrison]

I do too. But many on here are expecting it right away. It will not happen like that. I hope it does not take 500 games but that should be a realistic expectation. 250 games in a bottom pairing role. 150 games in a 2nd pairing role and last 100 in top pair. Then assuming he has the right partners (which he does not today) he will get there.

Not possible to please all fans(especially on here).

He has that 'confidence factor' built in,or so it appears.I think the offense is gonna come soon. He has only to get familiar with the competition he is facing. Maybe we will witness his limitations,but for now,he still looks really good. I've been wrong about a players potential before(wishful thinking because I liked them) but Sandin is smart as well as able...a good combination.Hope he is here for a long while!

 

[DarkKnight]

I really don't think we miss a beat putting him on the PP in place of Barrie. He's our future, it would be good for his confidence as well, he's a natural there. That's his game.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I really don't think we miss a beat putting him on the PP in place of Barrie. He's our future, it would be good for his confidence as well, he's a natural there. That's his game.

Yes, but he still needs sheltered minutes at even strength obviously. I'm ok with that.

 

[DarkKnight]

Yes, but he still needs sheltered minutes at even strength obviously. I'm ok with that.

So does Barrie to be fair.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Sandin could use more time, just to get stronger. He wont get taller but he needs to get stronger on his skates. Also, Sandin has to improve his skating top speed and acceleration. I like his upside, u cant teach his instincts, how deceptive he is, smart player. With improved speed, he can become a dangerous puck carrier.

 

[ponder]

Sandin could use more time, just to get stronger. He wont get taller but he needs to get stronger on his skates. Also, Sandin has to improve his skating top speed and acceleration. I like his upside, u cant teach his instincts, how deceptive he is, smart player. With improved speed, he can become a dangerous puck carrier.

Yeah, I absolutely LOVE his hockey sense, kid processes the game so fast. Very nice puck skills too.

I think his strength is OK for his age, his main weakness is his speed. He’s slow, especially for a small-ish PMD. If he can improve that speed, sky’s the limit.

Even with that weakness, I think he’s an NHLer today, with the upside to become a very good one.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Kid is poised and does the right thing with the puck more often than not

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah, I absolutely LOVE his hockey sense, kid processes the game so fast. Very nice puck skills too.

I think his strength is OK for his age, his main weakness is his speed. He’s slow, especially for a small-ish PMD. If he can improve that speed, sky’s the limit.

Even with that weakness, I think he’s an NHLer today, with the upside to become a very good one.

Loved watching Kaberle make small adjustments and then quickly pass the puck. Much quicker than skating the puck.

Going into the boards Kaberle would know who was coming on on him, make that small adjustment, avoid the hit and move it.

 

[stickty111]

The talent is really good. The poise and calmness stand out. He just needs to get stronger which will come. Those 2 goals were all because the strength isn't there yet.
I will say the same thing I do about Lilly. Both have top potential potential.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

His game seemed to turn around pretty quickly as soon as he was moved from Barrie.