Tribute Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread

[4thline]

Rasmus Sandin has 6pts in 10 games
Morgan Rielly is expendable

QED

January 28 2020 = June 2021
10 games = 140 games + playoffs.

You're better than this.

Colorado made a similar choice (moving Barrie with 1 year) because they were confident in Makar - who was significantly less proven, with limited cap pressure, and no expansion draft pressure

 

[JT AM da real deal]

No chance Sandin is a bottom pairing D-man. He is already better than Dermott. So look at the left side now.

Reilly
Muzzin
Sandin
Dermott

My point is if Muzzin signs with the Leafs, Morgan Reilly will be traded in the summer or at the draft. Sandin has to be in the Top 4 next year at the latest, he is too darn smart to not be.

Yeah you are bang on here but don't be so quick to make him the #1 and don't be so quick to write off Dermy. It could be another 3-5 years before Sandin is a true #1. and Dermy although he has been going through a learning patch here can really skate and plays with an edge. Also Dermy has played most of his life on the right side.
We still need a big tough and quick defensive defender for playoffs and maybe next year. We are close. All I'm saying is don't be too hasty with defensemen. Sure Sandin played great last night which is great. But it is 1 game. And next game he could be worst guy on ice. Again this is normal.
Rielly XXX
Muzz Holl
Sandin Dermy

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Sandin has this amazing characteristic to elevate the play of his partner CODY CECI! Hmmm wonder if there was another Swedish d man on Ottawa who did that ???

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah you are bang on here but don't be so quick to make him the #1 and don't be so quick to write off Dermy. It could be another 3-5 years before Sandin is a true #1. and Dermy although he has been going through a learning patch here can really skate and plays with an edge. Also Dermy has played most of his life on the right side.
We still need a big tough and quick defensive defender for playoffs and maybe next year. We are close. All I'm saying is don't be too hasty with defensemen. Sure Sandin played great last night which is great. But it is 1 game. And next game he could be worst guy on ice. Again this is normal.
Rielly XXX
Muzz Holl
Sandin Dermy

I like that D core but what about we let Muzz walk and find/acquire an equivalent RHD like a Muzzin. Better yet, Pietrangelo who interestingly enough has yet to sign with the Blues ??

Rielly Petro
Sandin Holl
Dermott Lily

 

[LeafsNation75]

I like that D core but what about we let Muzz walk and find/acquire an equivalent RHD like a Muzzin. Better yet, Pietrangelo who interestingly enough has yet to sign with the Blues ??

Rielly Petro
Sandin Holl
Dermott Lily

Even if that were to happen what would Pietrangelo want to be paid on the open market as a UFA? Would he get more money than Tyson Barrie?

 

[biotk]

Wasn't Dermott given less minutes with Babcock compared to the minutes Sandin has been getting with Keefe?

No - the opposite - Dermott played 2o+ minutes twice in his first 10 games, and almost hit 20 a third time. However, the time on the ice Babs gave Dermott was super sheltered - Keefe shelters Sandin when he is out on the ice - but not close to how sheltered Babs normally did.

Dermott's 10th game he played over 22 minutes. However, it was a blowout win for the Leafs, and the other 5 D that game were: Zaitsev, Gardiner, Holl (in his second career game), Carrick and Borgman.

 

[saffronleaf]

Hes a clown who should be banned from tv

Noo! Then he'll have more time to post here.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Do hockey analysts even watch hockey any more, who cares if they burn a year of Sandin's contract. He is showing the veterans how it's done.

Some people are stuck in the rebuilding mentality.

 

[Nylanderthal]

So Poulin said the Leafs should trade Sandin for a top 4 D. That pretty much sums up Poulin

For a guy who went the college route and is touted as being “big brained” he sure makes some stupid comments.
Probably why he’s now in tv and radio and not in a management position

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I like that D core but what about we let Muzz walk and find/acquire an equivalent RHD like a Muzzin. Better yet, Pietrangelo who interestingly enough has yet to sign with the Blues ??

Rielly Petro
Sandin Holl
Dermott Lily

I'm fine with that. I think it is a bit too young but #1 pair could eat 30 minutes per night. Hard to win with 3 babies in the lineup. I think we could add another lower paid shut down guy to play with Holl. Let Sandin Lily and Dermy play 5/6/7. and cut Marty. Trade for Dillon and Dell from SJ. Give them AJ, Hutch and Tima.
The issue with Petro is he will get 7M per for 8 years from Blues. So what are we going to have to pay to get Petro? Plus we gotta figure out his family situation. His wife just had 3 kids i think. Is a St Louis midwest girl with her mom there going to come east? You think we had issues with Marleau? You ain't seen nothing yet. When I lived in midwest playing for a few years my impression was most of them don't move ever. That said Petro is amazing. If it could be done I would love it. But then you take the risk of not signing Muzz and hoping Petro gets to UFA. and even if he does there will be lots of interest. I think it is problematic unless we made a trade and then had a signing.

 

[biotk]

Sandin has this amazing characteristic to elevate the play of his partner CODY CECI! Hmmm wonder if there was another Swedish d man on Ottawa who did that ???

Karlsson was great at elevating partners, but he and Ceci essentially never played together.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Even if that were to happen what would Pietrangelo want to be paid on the open market as a UFA? Would he get more money than Tyson Barrie?

yes

 

[ACC1224]

For a guy who went the college route and is touted as being “big brained” he sure makes some stupid comments.
Probably why he’s now in tv and radio and not in a management position

Seems the interpretation is what was stupid.
He definitely didn't say they 'should trade Sandin'.

 

[biotk]

I'm fine with that. I think it is a bit too young but #1 pair could eat 30 minutes per night. Hard to win with 3 babies in the lineup. I think we could add another lower paid shut down guy to play with Holl. Let Sandin Lily and Dermy play 5/6/7. and cut Marty. Trade for Dillon and Dell from SJ. Give them AJ, Hutch and Tima.
The issue with Petro is he will get 7M per for 8 years from Blues. So what are we going to have to pay to get Petro? Plus we gotta figure out his family situation. His wife just had 3 kids i think. Is a St Louis midwest girl with her mom there going to come east? You think we had issues with Marleau? You ain't seen nothing yet. When I lived in midwest playing for a few years my impression was most of them don't move ever. That said Petro is amazing. If it could be done I would love it. But then you take the risk of not signing Muzz and hoping Petro gets to UFA. and even if he does there will be lots of interest. I think it is problematic unless we made a trade and then had a signing.

I doubt Petro is intersted in signing in Toronto.

But regardless, if teams refuse to play their young D up the lineup then they should either send them down or trade them. Playing talented young D as 5s, 6s, or 7s generally just creates Ds who are 5s, 6s and 7s.

Boston has developed good D. In 2016 they started a 19 year old Carlo by playing him over 20 minutes a game on average. Later that same year they added McAvoy into the lineup - 19 years old - averaged more than 26 minutes a game in the playoffs.

St Louis has developed good D. When Petro broke in at 20 years of age he averaged 22 minutes a game. Parayko as a 22-year-old rookie was just under 20 minutes a game.

Anaheim has developed good D. In 2010 Fowler started at 18 years old playing more than 22 minutes a game. Lindholm a couple years later at 19 years old played just under 20 minutes a game. Manson was a late bloomer and didn't debut until 23 years old, but they ensured that he was playing over 18 minutes a game. Theodore couldn't break into the lineup becasue the Ducks D was so good, but when they gave him 19 games when he was 20, it was at almost 20 minutes a game. Montour didn't make the lineup full-time until he was 23, but when he did it was 20+ minutes a game.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I doubt Petro is intersted in signing in Toronto.

But regardless, if teams refuse to play their young D up the lineup then they should either send them down or trade them. Playing talented young D as 5s, 6s, or 7s generally just creates Ds who are 5s, 6s and 7s.

Boston has developed good D. In 2016 they started a 19 year old Carlo by playing him over 20 minutes a game on average. Later that same year they added McAvoy into the lineup - 19 years old - averaged more than 26 minutes a game in the playoffs.

St Louis has developed good D. When Petro broke in at 20 years of age he averaged 22 minutes a game. Parayko as a 22-year-old rookie was just under 20 minutes a game.

Anaheim has developed good D. In 2010 Fowler started at 18 years old playing more than 22 minutes a game. Lindholm a couple years later at 19 years old played just under 20 minutes a game. Manson was a late bloomer and didn't debut until 23 years old, but they ensured that he was playing over 18 minutes a game. Theodore couldn't break into the lineup becasue the Ducks D was so good, but when they gave him 19 games when he was 20, it was at almost 20 minutes a game. Montour didn't make the lineup full-time until he was 23, but when he did it was 20+ minutes a game.

We could develop at NHL level. But I think too many people are looking for results with core signed up front. The team in my mind is a little ahead of itself. I think most are looking for round #2/3 this year and a Cup run next year. So if this is the plan then hard to do it with a kiddie core.

 

[Northernguy10]

So Poulin said the Leafs should trade Sandin for a top 4 D. That pretty much sums up Poulin

I believe he said if the Leafs go looking for a top 4 D the other team would be asking for Sandin. He didn't say they should trade Sandin for a top 4 D if I heard it correctly.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I believe he said if the Leafs go looking for a top 4 D the other team would be asking for Sandin. He didn't say they should trade Sandin for a top 4 D if I heard it correctly.

Did he at least say Toronto would be crazy to trade Sandin since he's already a defenseman and younger.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I doubt Petro is intersted in signing in Toronto.

But regardless, if teams refuse to play their young D up the lineup then they should either send them down or trade them. Playing talented young D as 5s, 6s, or 7s generally just creates Ds who are 5s, 6s and 7s.

Boston has developed good D. In 2016 they started a 19 year old Carlo by playing him over 20 minutes a game on average. Later that same year they added McAvoy into the lineup - 19 years old - averaged more than 26 minutes a game in the playoffs.

St Louis has developed good D. When Petro broke in at 20 years of age he averaged 22 minutes a game. Parayko as a 22-year-old rookie was just under 20 minutes a game.

Anaheim has developed good D. In 2010 Fowler started at 18 years old playing more than 22 minutes a game. Lindholm a couple years later at 19 years old played just under 20 minutes a game. Manson was a late bloomer and didn't debut until 23 years old, but they ensured that he was playing over 18 minutes a game. Theodore couldn't break into the lineup becasue the Ducks D was so good, but when they gave him 19 games when he was 20, it was at almost 20 minutes a game. Montour didn't make the lineup full-time until he was 23, but when he did it was 20+ minutes a game.

Try it the other way around.

Can someone name me a top pairing defenseman that started his career by playing a full year or more as a sheltered bottom pairing defenseman? I honestly can't think of anyone in the top-30 that fits this criteria, probably top-60 as well.

It's like trying to tutor a student to be ready for a 4th year university math final by making them practice their times tables 8 hours a day until they're "ready".

 

[ToneDog]

Even if that were to happen what would Pietrangelo want to be paid on the open market as a UFA? Would he get more money than Tyson Barrie?

We can use Muzzin + Barrie dollars for Petro. Comes down to how much Petro wants to come home to play. If he wants too much, you look for another RHD. What I like is that we would have 4 solid dmen virtually making minimal dollars.

 

[biotk]

I believe he said if the Leafs go looking for a top 4 D the other team would be asking for Sandin. He didn't say they should trade Sandin for a top 4 D if I heard it correctly.

Assuming that is what he said (I haven't listened to it), he is, of course, correct. Every other team is going to ask for Sandin. Why wouldn't they? Talented young D, but the Leafs have only seen enough value in him to play him 10 games and under 14 minutes a night.

 

[Northernguy10]

Yeah you are bang on here but don't be so quick to make him the #1 and don't be so quick to write off Dermy. It could be another 3-5 years before Sandin is a true #1. and Dermy although he has been going through a learning patch here can really skate and plays with an edge. Also Dermy has played most of his life on the right side.
We still need a big tough and quick defensive defender for playoffs and maybe next year. We are close. All I'm saying is don't be too hasty with defensemen. Sure Sandin played great last night which is great. But it is 1 game. And next game he could be worst guy on ice. Again this is normal.
Rielly XXX
Muzz Holl
Sandin Dermy

I've seen a lot of "we should trade Dermott" lately in here...Here we are a team weak on defensive personnel and some want to trade a just-turned 23 year old with skills and a bit of an edge to his game. Does he make mistakes?... Yep... Every defence man does. He's learning...As is famously said in here regularly "progress isn't linear". I've watched him since Erie and he caught my eye every time I tuned in to watch McDavid play. Happy when we drafted him and I think he's going to be a good one...Hopefully we don't trade him as I think we'd regret it within a year or two.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I believe he said if the Leafs go looking for a top 4 D the other team would be asking for Sandin. He didn't say they should trade Sandin for a top 4 D if I heard it correctly.

I would not trade Sandin, Matty or Marner. They can't trade Freddy unless they get back a better #1. Rielly is very close to Freddy's situation too.
and that statement would only hold water if you are talking about a top pair guy signed long term like a Jones. it does not hold true for UFA's.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I've seen a lot of "we should trade Dermott" lately in here...Here we are a team weak on defensive personnel and some want to trade a just-turned 23 year old with skills and a bit of an edge to his game. Does he make mistakes?... Yep... Every defence man does. He's learning...As is famously said in here regularly "progress isn't linear". I've watched him since Erie and he caught my eye every time I tuned in to watch McDavid play. Happy when we drafted him and I think he's going to be a good one...Hopefully we don't trade him as I think we'd regret it within a year or two.

Too many people here think defense have 1 great game and they are anointed ... OMG joke. Dermy had some great games too his first few.

 

[biotk]

Try it the other way around.

Can someone name me a top pairing defenseman that started his career by playing a full year or more as a sheltered bottom pairing defenseman? I honestly can't think of anyone in the top-30 that fits this criteria, probably top-60 as well.

It's like trying to tutor a student to be ready for a 4th year university math final by making them practice their times tables 8 hours a day until they're "ready".

I went through every top-4 D in the NHL last year, and if my memory serves me right, I think that only Chara and Giordano would come close to fitting your description. But those are two extremely unusual cases - Chara was a mountain that they had to teach how to play hockey. Giordano was an extreme late bloomer who was never expected to turn into much. Most of the top-30 (or top-60) started out in the top-4, those who didn't were there quickly - generally within about 40 or 50 games max.