Player Discussion Rasmus Ristolainen

[old kummelweck]

Marty also did the organization a solid by not outing Risto's decision-making issues.

the analytics dude brutalized risto and even accused the sabres of trying to pump up his value by giving him PP time.

 

[jc17]

I still think Risto isnt as bad as his stats suggest. He was dragged down by teammates and unfavorable situations. Not saying hes a great first pairing guy, but hes not a complete anchor

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I still think Risto isnt as bad as his stats suggest. He was dragged down by teammates and unfavorable situations. Not saying hes a great first pairing guy, but hes not a complete anchor

I agree, but he is also our best asset to fill that hole at 2c, so i am okay with trading him (given our recent moves to shore up the blue line)

 

[Weaves]

I still think Risto isnt as bad as his stats suggest. He was dragged down by teammates and unfavorable situations. Not saying hes a great first pairing guy, but hes not a complete anchor

I still want him gone. Let someone else gamble on his "upside". If we get a player like Ehlers back goodbye risto.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I agree, but he is also our best asset to fill that hole at 2c, so i am okay with trading him (given our recent moves to shore up the blue line)

Except on the outside chance we get Cirelli (who may or may not be better than Mitts next year), I dont see many potential trade partners that would give us a 2C for Risto. Getting a good quality top6 winger for him is way more realistic I think.

 

[Moskau]

For the people who defend him no matter what, how many years into his career will it finally be that he is the reason he's bad and not teammates, coaches, etc? His underlying numbers are bad because the team has been terrible but the team has also been terrible because someone as bad at defense as him has been playing half 25+ minutes for the last 4 seasons. The team gets chewed up when he's out there against 1st liners or 4th liners. It doesn't matter because he's not a good at defense.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

For the people who defend him no matter what, how many years into his career will it finally be that he is the reason he's bad and not teammates, coaches, etc? His underlying numbers are bad because the team has been terrible but the team has also been terrible because someone as bad at defense as him has been playing half 25+ minutes for the last 4 seasons. The team gets chewed up when he's out there against 1st liners or 4th liners. It doesn't matter because he's not a good at defense.

Risto is 1 year older than Pilut. You are making him as if he has peaked and can never improve. He has played on some terrible roster and with atrocious coaches. He can and he will improve. Whether that happens here or not time will tell. We are deep enough on RD to now be able to afford to trade him, but I still only do it for an even better and more promising top6 player. No packages for futures and shot players.

 

[5 Minute Major]

For the people who defend him no matter what, how many years into his career will it finally be that he is the reason he's bad and not teammates, coaches, etc? His underlying numbers are bad because the team has been terrible but the team has also been terrible because someone as bad at defense as him has been playing half 25+ minutes for the last 4 seasons. The team gets chewed up when he's out there against 1st liners or 4th liners. It doesn't matter because he's not a good at defense.

If he’s that terrible why have multiple coaches given him some of the most ice time for a player in the league?

 

[Buffaloed]

Ristolainen is another poster child for how not to develop prospects. They threw him into the deep end as age 19 and never let him come up for air. It's going to take a willing student and some dedicated coaching to fix his game.

 

[Aladyyn]

If he’s that terrible why have multiple coaches given him some of the most ice time for a player in the league?

Ted Nolan, Dan Bylsma, Phil Housley

 

[Moskau]

Risto is 1 year older than Pilut. You are making him as if he has peaked and can never improve. He has played on some terrible roster and with atrocious coaches. He can and he will improve. Whether that happens here or not time will tell. We are deep enough on RD to now be able to afford to trade him, but I still only do it for an even better and more promising top6 player. No packages for futures and shot players.

I do not believe that players with the Hockey smarts that Ristolainen has suddenly gets it at the age of 25, 6 seasons into his career. Generally players perceived to improve this late in their careers were either smart yet physically underdeveloped players or players that were played in a lesser role and blossomed when given a bigger opportunity. Risto is neither and I find it laughable that reduced ice time is supposedly suddenly going to teach him where to be on the ice or what to do in quick thinking situations. If he was out there doing the correct things but simply being overwhelmed by players like Kucherov it would be one thing. But he's out there reversing pucks for no reason, icing what should be an easy breakout, and getting torched by players like Callahan and Killorn. I'm 99% he's nonredeemable at least on this team and the only thing lowering his minutes will do is reduce the amount of brute force points he collects which will make him look even worse.

He's a Jack Johnson/Dion Phaneuf caliber defensemen. When those guys stopped getting top minutes they were still trash defensively in a reduced role, the only thing that changed was their point totals were lower. They didn't suddenly become great #4/5 defensemen.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Ted Nolan, Dan Bylsma, Phil Housley

I’m aware of who the coaches were.

 

[Moskau]

If he’s that terrible why have multiple coaches given him some of the most ice time for a player in the league?

As I said earlier, someone had to get them. Funny thing is when Cody Franson was given Risto's duties for a few games a few seasons ago, he posted metrics that Ristolainen has only dreamed about in his career.

 

[5 Minute Major]

As I said earlier, someone had to get them. Funny thing is when Cody Franson was given Risto's duties for a few games a few seasons ago, he posted metrics that Ristolainen has only dreamed about in his career.

Right.

So what you are saying is that Cody Franson is a better player.

Got it.

 

[Aladyyn]

Right.

So what you are saying is that Cody Franson is a better player.

Got it.

I mean, probably? Since we're talking about giving Ristolainen the Franson role and we have no idea whether he'll even do well in it...

 

[BloFan4Life]

Ristolainen is another poster child for how not to develop prospects. They threw him into the deep end as age 19 and never let him come up for air. It's going to take a willing student and some dedicated coaching to fix his game.

I don't think that is fair at all to criticize his development.

He was drafted 8th overall after playing professionally in the Finnish Elite League.

He started in Rochester that next year and looked great. They brought him up in second half of year and he played sheltered minutes. The following year when he was in Buffalo, he still play sheltered minutes.

With Risto, it was never about him not looking like he belonged. Mentally he is a low IQ player. I think playing IQ is very tough to change. When coaching kids as little as 10, you can tell the kids that think differently.

 

[Buffaloed]

If he’s that terrible why have multiple coaches given him some of the most ice time for a player in the league?

In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

 

[jc17]

For the people who defend him no matter what, how many years into his career will it finally be that he is the reason he's bad and not teammates, coaches, etc? His underlying numbers are bad because the team has been terrible but the team has also been terrible because someone as bad at defense as him has been playing half 25+ minutes for the last 4 seasons. The team gets chewed up when he's out there against 1st liners or 4th liners. It doesn't matter because he's not a good at defense.

Who defends him no matter what?

Ive recently gotten a little more positive on him, but hope i'm not being lumped into that group, if it even exists

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Ted Nolan, Dan Bylsma, Phil Housley

Ya it’s almost like bad coaches make things worse. Perhaps, like promising young defenseman.

 

[5 Minute Major]

In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Cool.

Then, with his salary, and how bad he really is, we should be lucky to get a 7th for him, right?

 

[jc17]

Essentially the same thing I posted last week for those who missed it. Although I suppose it wasn't missed, just ignored if it doesnt fit the narrative.

There were 4 "anchors" last season if you believe Risto is an anchor: Risto, Sobotka, Scandella, Thomspon

Look at how they performed when they weren't playing with the other anchors.

Player	GP	TOI	xGF%	HDCF%	CF%	PDO	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Risto	78	790.3833	54.67	55.82	51.54	0.988	55.01
Scandella	63	456.95	47.43	46.43	49.88	1.013	57.81
Tage	65	190.55	42.74	44.93	48.22	0.938	60.32
Sobotka	69	190.3833	34.73	27.12	41.31	1.042	31.25

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

One of these things is not like the others.

Of course I'd trade Ristolainen for a good top 6 forward. But I dont think he's "addition by subtraction" and should be thrown out the door just because.

 

[Chainshot]

Essentially the same thing I posted last week for those who missed it. Although I suppose it wasn't missed, just ignored if it doesnt fit the narrative.

There were 4 "anchors" last season if you believe Risto is an anchor: Risto, Sobotka, Scandella, Thomspon

Look at how they performed when they weren't playing with the other anchors.

Player	GP	TOI	xGF%	HDCF%	CF%	PDO	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Risto	78	790.3833	54.67	55.82	51.54	0.988	55.01
Scandella	63	456.95	47.43	46.43	49.88	1.013	57.81
Tage	65	190.55	42.74	44.93	48.22	0.938	60.32
Sobotka	69	190.3833	34.73	27.12	41.31	1.042	31.25

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

One of these things is not like the others.

Of course I'd trade Ristolainen for a good top 6 forward. But I dont think he's "addition by subtraction" and should be thrown out the door just because.

Keep fighting the good fight jc. Preach.

 

[jc17]

Keep fighting the good fight jc. Preach.

It's a tough balance. I'll keep bringing it up because I think its overlooked but because I keep bringing it up I'll probably be labeled a risto superfan which i'm not.

 

[Chainshot]

It's a tough balance. I'll keep bringing it up because I think its overlooked but because I keep bringing it up I'll probably be labeled a risto superfan which i'm not.

It seems the mobs are out lately. And it’s not just about Risto.

 

[Chainshot]

I’m also game to trade him if the deal is good. And I understand that to everyone “good” is subjective. For some that’s just excising him from the roster. For some it’s a grande return. And for others it’s somewhere in between. I’m willing to be surprised by GMJB and see what he manages to create if he chooses to make this trade. There is no need to rush, there is no need to simply take whatever the best deal is on a certain day. If he is patient and no one meets his price, let Ralph and Steve Smith work on him.

And if it isn’t a trade, I do kind of lean toward wanting to see if a quality partner and system can bring out improvements in his play. He has so many flaws that point to bad habits one would associate with fatigue: panicking on clears, not using his partner, and positionally trying to do too much. Balance the deployment, pair him with Pilut through good or bad, and work on how the team and he cover and break out of the zone.