Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Updated: 11.25.21)

[Joey Bones]

As expected, no word on Sjalin signing his ELC...

 

[Roo Returns]

It is something they consider - with the idea being their parents supplemented they're training and the kids have an idea of what being a pro entails.

The issue I have is that it hasn't worked out well: Thomas, Borque, both Calle and Lias Anderssens, Sjellberg, and now Tarnstrom.

Ronning might be figuring it out at a later age. Does he go the JAM route or is he trade bait at this point?

It is time for a change in philosophy.

 

[Roo Returns]

The issue with the Rangers prior regime drafting was why throw away a pick on a guy like Rempe or Lindblom or Skjellberg when you know they at best are AHL depth?

Draft someone with an elite skill and help them with other deficiencies rather than "he maybe might could be a Blair Betts if his vegan diet and learning guitar take the pressure of him during games."

Day was a big question mark even back then. The issue was he had zero physicality. I remember his first Traverse and he looked like Christian Backman reincarnated. And that's not a compliment. He never got better.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Hmm, learned the NHL lottery is tomorrow night. Guess we're rooting against the Devils, etc from winning although there doesn't appear to be a Laf prize.

 

[Joey Bones]

The issue I have is that it hasn't worked out well: Thomas, Borque, both Calle and Lias Anderssens, Sjellberg, and now Tarnstrom.

Ronning might be figuring it out at a later age. Does he go the JAM route or is he trade bait at this point?

It is time for a change in philosophy.

We'll see what Drury decides on. From every indication, it seems like Drury is highly scoping out his list by using analytics. Gorton used analytics, but ultimately used the "eye-test" to determine his lists. There's a lot that can be changed or won't be changed.

It is too early to tell on Sjellberg and Tarnstrom, but Thomas has had a successful career overseas. Calle Andersson has been a mainstay in the NLA (and his brother is a mainstay in the NHL). Lias is still figuring it out, might be able to make it as a bottom-6 center/wing with LA.

Bourque might be the only real disappointment...

 

[Roo Returns]

We'll see what Drury decides on. From every indication, it seems like Drury is highly scoping out his list by using analytics. Gorton used analytics, but ultimately used the "eye-test" to determine his lists. There's a lot that can be changed or won't be changed.

It is too early to tell on Sjellberg and Tarnstrom, but Thomas has had a successful career overseas. Calle Andersson has been a mainstay in the NLA (and his brother is a mainstay in the NHL). Lias is still figuring it out, might be able to make it as a bottom-6 center/wing with LA.

Bourque might be the only real disappointment...

It can't be all analytics otherwise you're running 6 Adam Clenndennings on D or the Maple Leafs/Coyotes.

It's fine those guys have had great careers overseas but it's about the NHL game and factoring into how will they perform given the rink size, pace, physicality, being in a strange new land.

I know other stuff goes into it but it can't be the "oh he grew up with it because his dad was a pro". Even guys like Lemiuex and Namestnikov whose dad was in the Rangers organization for a bit......it's nice having two extra fourth rounders I guess.

 

[Edge]

The issue I have is that it hasn't worked out well: Thomas, Borque, both Calle and Lias Anderssens, Sjellberg, and now Tarnstrom.

Ronning might be figuring it out at a later age. Does he go the JAM route or is he trade bait at this point?

It is time for a change in philosophy.

I don't think its a philosophy per se, so much as bloodlines is something that is out there. Nobody cares when its Sauer or Staal or Stepan. It's not a guiding principle.

 

[Roo Returns]

I don't think its a philosophy per se, so much as bloodlines is something that is out there. Nobody cares when its Sauer or Staal or Stepan. It's not a guiding principle.

Stepan's dad never made it to the pro game. Staal was at worst going to be a Jay McKee clone. He was a safe guaranteed pick and for a while he was better than McKee until the injuries and Stralman carrying him.

Sauer had an athletic family. I don't believe his father was an NHLer (his brother was). The issue with that pick was injury problems. He was excellent but other than 2010-11 he was always injured.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It can't be all analytics otherwise you're running 6 Adam Clenndennings on D or the Maple Leafs/Coyotes.

It's fine those guys have had great careers overseas but it's about the NHL game and factoring into how will they perform given the rink size, pace, physicality, being in a strange new land.

I know other stuff goes into it but it can't be the "oh he grew up with it because his dad was a pro". Even guys like Lemiuex and Namestnikov whose dad was in the Rangers organization for a bit......it's nice having two extra fourth rounders I guess.

Yes but we also seem to sometimes forget that drafting isn't an exact science. Nobody is batting 100% or even 50%. These are 17 and 18 year old kids at the draft who you have to evaluate not to what they are today, but what they will be 5 years from now. Once you get past the 1st round, odds drop significantly. From the 3rd round onwards, it's a gamble. And most picks are just gut feeling.

Back in 2015, I really loved the Brad Morrison pick. I remember talking to @Joey Bones about it at the time. He was a great pick up but never made it. In hindsight, that makes it a bad pick regardless of why you picked him.

Now, in terms of bloodlines etc. you have some good or bad picks and I'm honestly not sure it's something that plays into their success or failure. Nils Lundkvist's uncle is a Luleå legend for instance. But Lundkvist is likely to exceed his uncle's career if he makes it to the NHL and becomes a mainstay.

I doubt the Rangers go solely on bloodlines but the list of players who have them, is endless these past few years. Kjellberg was a 6th round pick, Ronning and Virta 7th round picks. Those aren't the ones to lose sleep over to be fair. But I feel some fans expect those to also make the team at some stage. Expectations should be based on draft position. How many 7th rounders are NHL regulars? It's such a small percentage, that going with a kid with familiarity with pro hockey isn't outrageous.

 

[Joey Bones]

Was there a relegation winner for SHL/Allsvenkan? Heard HV71 got relegated and can't find any articles on it.

 

[Edge]

Stepan's dad never made it to the pro game. Staal was at worst going to be a Jay McKee clone. He was a safe guaranteed pick and for a while he was better than McKee until the injuries and Stralman carrying him.

Sauer had an athletic family. I don't believe his father was an NHLer (his brother was). The issue with that pick was injury problems. He was excellent but other than 2010-11 he was always injured.

The point is it's not really philosophy or guiding principle.

Every team in the league has players like related to someone, just like us.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Was there a relegation winner for SHL/Allsvenkan? Heard HV71 got relegated and can't find any articles on it.

Timrå beat Björklöven in the final to get promoted

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The point is it's not really philosophy or guiding principle.

Every team in the league has players like related to someone, just like us.

Hockey is a small community. Growing up in a hockey environment does help. Brett Berard's dad was a college hockey goalie for instance. Patrick Khodorenko's dad played hockey as well. It's a lot easier to get into the game if you have parents with that background as you need equipment and most important, ice surface to play.

This isn't football or baseball where you buy a ball or a glove at Dick's and get into the game. Or even soccer. When I was a kid, we all played soccer after school and we'd use our jackets to make goalposts. If you want to play hockey, at the very least you need a stick which costs a fortune compared to the equipment necessary in other sports.

 

[Raspewtin]

It can't be all analytics otherwise you're running 6 Adam Clenndennings on D or the Maple Leafs/Coyotes.

What a stupid comment lol

"All analytics" gets you teams like the Avalanche which are absolutely stomping the whole league

 

[Joey Bones]

It can't be all analytics otherwise you're running 6 Adam Clenndennings on D or the Maple Leafs/Coyotes.

It's fine those guys have had great careers overseas but it's about the NHL game and factoring into how will they perform given the rink size, pace, physicality, being in a strange new land.

I know other stuff goes into it but it can't be the "oh he grew up with it because his dad was a pro". Even guys like Lemiuex and Namestnikov whose dad was in the Rangers organization for a bit......it's nice having two extra fourth rounders I guess.

I think the analytics in play here is far beyond any NHL GM simulator like bringing in "6 Clendenings" as you have perceived. Most teams have been going analytic-heavy in all sports, not just the Rangers and with Drury. Look at the Avalanche in this regard. Again, let's see what he can do before fully judging the mentality. Bloodlines do have their payoffs (see Kapanen, Domi, etc.), but like most drafts, it's all about trajectory and development. It's on the player and the team, regardless of their lineage.

There's a lot more to hockey than just the NHL, even though it's the top league in the whole world (and unintentionally the worst at the same time). Besides, most rinks in the KHL have NHL-sized rinks now. Think @Amazing Kreiderman can attest to that. With that being the case, the pace will be eerily the same as that of the NHL. Physicality is another story, but as most saw in the Gagarin Cup Playoffs, teams with the bigger grind will show up in big games. Yet another similar attribute to the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Times are changing, for sure...

 

[Joey Bones]

Timrå beat Björklöven in the final to get promoted

Thank you, what about SHL relegation? Was HV71 the team being sent down?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Thank you, what about SHL relegation? Was HV71 the team being sent down?

Yes, in a replay of the 2017 SHL championship final, Brynäs played HV71. This time Brynäs won, staying up while HV71 is going down. Really f***ing wild to see them go from champions to relegation in 4 years.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think the analytics in play here is far beyond any NHL GM simulator like bringing in "6 Clendenings" as you have perceived. Most teams have been going analytic-heavy in all sports, not just the Rangers and with Drury. Look at the Avalanche in this regard. Again, let's see what he can do before fully judging the mentality. Bloodlines do have their payoffs (see Kapanen, Domi, etc.), but like most drafts, it's all about trajectory and development. It's on the player and the team, regardless of their lineage.

There's a lot more to hockey than just the NHL, even though it's the top league in the whole world (and unintentionally the worst at the same time). Besides, most rinks in the KHL have NHL-sized rinks now. Think @Amazing Kreiderman can attest to that. With that being the case, the pace will be eerily the same as that of the NHL. Physicality is another story, but as most saw in the Gagarin Cup Playoffs, teams with the bigger grind will show up in big games. Yet another similar attribute to the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Times are changing, for sure...

At the moment, only 2 teams (Dinamo Riga and Kunlun Red Star) are playing on Olympic regulation rinks as they were granted exception by the KHL. About 12 teams are on NHL sized rinks. The rest is currently transitioning from hybrid to NHL rinks in a process that takes 1-2 years

 

[Fitzy]

At the moment, only 2 teams (Dinamo Riga and Kunlun Red Star) are playing on Olympic regulation rinks as they were granted exception by the KHL. About 12 teams are on NHL sized rinks. The rest is currently transitioning from hybrid to NHL rinks in a process that takes 1-2 years

Why do you think goalie save percentages in the KHL are so absurdly high? The theory for many years was larger rinks lended to more lower percentage shots.

 

[Roo Returns]

What a stupid comment lol

"All analytics" gets you teams like the Avalanche which are absolutely stomping the whole league

How was my comment stupid? That's pretty rude.

How are the Avs "all analytics" when their best players are mostly top 5 picks?

They also made some good trades like Kadri from Toronto and Giard from Nashville among many other moves.

Was Graves based solely on analytics?

Are the Avs where they are if Doofus Quinn is coaching them?

The bottom line is: NO team in the league is ALL analytics otherwise some EA simulator would be running everything.

Can analytics be good? Of course! I never said no analytics (yet another example of people twisting my statements on this site).

Analytics are 1000% necessary when looking at junior players in the mid round who might be great in one area but physically weak to take a chance on.

Analytics are 1000% necessary and the Rangers should use them when looking for bang for buck bottom sixers not named Goodrow and Coleman that will cost a fortune.

Analytics are not 1000% absolute when there is a 20 page thread over a borderline NHLer like Adam Clenddening having a positive Corsi.

I'm glad the Avs use analytics. That is wonderful. I have studied some analytics based stuff. But the fact is, the Oakland As who started this whole thing have never won a World Series with Billy Beane as GM, Arizona was not the NHL equivalent of the Oakland As, and Toronto as a team needs to make moves because regardless of how many fancy stats they win, if they don't change something they're going to turn into the early 80s Kings, or late 90s Senators/Sharks.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Why do you think goalie save percentages in the KHL are so absurdly high? The theory for many years was larger rinks lended to more lower percentage shots.

Play styles. There's less pressure in the offensive zone, which leads to more free-flowing hockey and shots that aren't getting deflected as much. A lot of goals in the NHL are off deflections, either the offense or the defense.

The KHL has a lot more clean shots because they don't clog up the slot.

 

[Ranger Ric]

Braden Schneider in WHL East Division Defenseman of the year.

 

[NYSPORTS]

If you want to play hockey, at the very least you need a stick which costs a fortune compared to the equipment necessary in other sports.

Better find yourself a club team in the States for Hockey or Lax which adds up to a small fortune over the years.

 

[Raspewtin]

Which NHL teams have drafted the best and worst since 2005?

Some key takeaways

-Rangers rank 18th in GSVA for their draft picks from 2005-2016 using only the first 7 years of results (less than 7 has been extrapolated to 7) (Washington and St Louis take #1 and #2, Canucks and Devils #29 and #30)
-Rangers rank 7th in outperforming their draft capital according to GSVA (the difference of wins provided by their picks v.s. the expected value of their picks)
-Rangers rank 3rd in draft performance outside of the 1st round (trailing only Tampa and Carolina)

As a reminder, GSVA is Dom L's statistic that means to be somewhat of a hockey stand-in for WAR.

Keep in mind these results do not include 2017 onwards, drafts of which I think would significantly increase the Rangers stock.

 

[Joey Bones]

Which NHL teams have drafted the best and worst since 2005?

Some key takeaways

-Rangers rank 18th in GSVA for their draft picks from 2005-2016 using only the first 7 years of results (less than 7 has been extrapolated to 7) (Washington and St Louis take #1 and #2, Canucks and Devils #29 and #30)
-Rangers rank 7th in outperforming their draft capital according to GSVA (the difference of wins provided by their picks v.s. the expected value of their picks)
-Rangers rank 3rd in draft performance outside of the 1st round (trailing only Tampa and Carolina)

As a reminder, GSVA is Dom L's statistic that means to be somewhat of a hockey stand-in for WAR.

Keep in mind these results do not include 2017 onwards, drafts of which I think would significantly increase the Rangers stock.

Interesting, wonder what it turned out to be for NYR when Gorton took over. 2005-2016 was all Sather.