Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats in Post #1; Updated 5.29.18)

[eco's bones]

I think a big reason for that is that the trade quite possibly could turn out to be a real stinker. Or Hajak turns out to be the best player moved or Howden blows everyone away by being able to take his game completely to the NHL without losing much or we pull a rabbit out of the hat with one of the picks. But it could also turn out to be a real stinker. Time will tell. And its not a good trade to blow...

I made several posts about trading JT Miller before this deal was made. I wrote this in November 17 for examples:
Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines


But I have never been a big Namestnikov fan. Is the hockey sense there? To play a fast game all must all of it is about being smart. 3 Hagelins on the ice would not in any way play fast hockey. You need to position your self well, make the best decisions with the puck. Create speed by how you move the puck.

Hajak is a good prospect, but he need to have the same physical development as Skjei have had to become a star in the NHL. He is still young, Skjei needed what 4 years + 1 in the AHL. Can Hajak beef up and get the lateral movement Skjei have? He could become a star if he does, if he doesn't there are no guarantees that he become a good NHLer. LD, there are 2 good LDs out there for every good RD. Or winger/center for that matter too.

Howden is a great attitude guy and great guy to have in the system on a rebuilding team. Solid pickup. But I am not at all sold on his ability to bring offense to the NHL at center ice. Time will tell. If not, I see him more as a potential character PF winger.

The 1st could quite possibly be in the range that was a 2nd round pick just a few years ago. Its a very late 1st. Winning a Cup isn't easy. When we traded for MSL, Yzerman got a conditional 1st if we made the conference finals if I remember correctly. In the same context Gorton got a conditonal first not if Tampa gets to the ECF, not if Tampa gets to the SCFs, but if Tampa -- wins -- the Cup.

Very good post. I would correct you on Skjei. It was 3 + 1. He left college after his junior year. I think there's real possibility that Hajek plays some games with the Rangers next year--though I'd be surprised if he didn't spend some time in Hartford too but that's somewhat because the Rangers D situation is not going to be as stable as it was when Skjei turned pro. If Hajek can turn out to be as good as Skjei--that would be great. It doesn't seem to me he's going to be a legit No. 1. I don't think of Shattenkirk that way either--which is why push comes to shove I'm hoping on a d-man with our first pick in this year's draft.

 

[Ola]

Idk why you keep mentioning PF and Howden in the same sentence. It’s really not his game at all, and he’s more of a slippery, rangy type of player that always has his motor going and just knows how to play the puck. It’s similar to Stepan where he just knows what/where his assignments are and he knows how to faciliate play with the puck in the offensive zone. The biggest question is how well his offense translates, but so far, he’s produced at every level he’s played, and I can see him being a 20-20 linchpin type of player that’s a top PKer, top match-up C, etc. Hell, ya may as well start envisioning a Lias-Howden duo out there late in games locking players down.

Because in juniors he scores because he is bigger, faster and more skilled than the average WHL player. In the WJC he scored mostly because he played for a dominant Canada team.

In the NHL, will he be bigger, faster and more skilled than the average NHLer? Not even remotely. Will he play for a dominant team like Canada in the WJC? Not even remotely.

I don’t think Howden even remotely compares to Stepan in terms of skill, nor Lias.

I would compare him to Anisimov if anything, lesser skill but better along the boards and infront of the net. If you had an Anisimov with less skill but more physical ability — how would you want him to play? He must play a PF game in the NHL, make his way around the net, win board battles, and so forth. I think it’s a pure fantasy to expect him to score goals by skating around Ds and stuff like that. Hope I am wrong!!!

 

[Mac n Gs]

Because in juniors he scores because he is bigger, faster and more skilled than the average WHL player. In the WJC he scored mostly because he played for a dominant Canada team.

In the NHL, will he be bigger, faster and more skilled than the average NHLer? Not even remotely. Will he play for a dominant team like Canada in the WJC? Not even remotely.

I don’t think Howden even remotely compares to Stepan in terms of skill, nor Lias.

I would compare him to Anisimov if anything, lesser skill but better along the boards and infront of the net. If you had an Anisimov with less skill but more physical ability — how would you want him to play? He must play a PF game in the NHL, make his way around the net, win board battles, and so forth. I think it’s a pure fantasy to expect him to score goals by skating around Ds and stuff like that. Hope I am wrong!!!

I guess we can just agree to disagree re: Howden because I’m seeing something differently than you. Howden was a key cog on that Canada team and was a beast defensively. Idk how you can compare him to Arty who was always more of an offensive-minded player, but then again, I think we’re truly differeing in how we define a PF. What you described doesn’t really define a PF to me. Crosby does all of that with regularity, but does that make him a PF? I think the disconnect is knowing how to play with the puck in tight spaces and be efficient with it in the slot. I see Howden do that plentily, kinda like what TJ Oshie does in Washington. That’s the style I attribute more to Howden rather than a PF lunchpail guy like Maroon or Max Jones

 

[haveandare]

I think a big reason for that is that the trade quite possibly could turn out to be a real stinker. Or Hajak turns out to be the best player moved or Howden blows everyone away by being able to take his game completely to the NHL without losing much or we pull a rabbit out of the hat with one of the picks. But it could also turn out to be a real stinker. Time will tell. And its not a good trade to blow...

I made several posts about trading JT Miller before this deal was made. I wrote this in November 17 for examples:
Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines


But I have never been a big Namestnikov fan. Is the hockey sense there? To play a fast game all must all of it is about being smart. 3 Hagelins on the ice would not in any way play fast hockey. You need to position your self well, make the best decisions with the puck. Create speed by how you move the puck.

Hajak is a good prospect, but he need to have the same physical development as Skjei have had to become a star in the NHL. He is still young, Skjei needed what 4 years + 1 in the AHL. Can Hajak beef up and get the lateral movement Skjei have? He could become a star if he does, if he doesn't there are no guarantees that he become a good NHLer. LD, there are 2 good LDs out there for every good RD. Or winger/center for that matter too.

Howden is a great attitude guy and great guy to have in the system on a rebuilding team. Solid pickup. But I am not at all sold on his ability to bring offense to the NHL at center ice. Time will tell. If not, I see him more as a potential character PF winger.

The 1st could quite possibly be in the range that was a 2nd round pick just a few years ago. Its a very late 1st. Winning a Cup isn't easy. When we traded for MSL, Yzerman got a conditional 1st if we made the conference finals if I remember correctly. In the same context Gorton got a conditonal first not if Tampa gets to the ECF, not if Tampa gets to the SCFs, but if Tampa -- wins -- the Cup.

Could also turn out to be a stinker for TB just as easily. Miller can beat up on other teams playing with two elite forwards, but so can many other cheaper and more reliable options. He's due a raise - are they going to give it to him with term? Will he take it without term? We'll see. McD also is in for a huge raise. Does he think he's the player he was in 2014 and should be paid as such? If so, that's going to hurt TB, or they're going to move him as a pending UFA for pennies on the dollar.

Say TB falls short again, Miller is an invisible playoff player again, and McD wants Carlson type money. None of that is terribly unrealistic, and if Howden and Hajek even turn into a solid 3C and 3D respectively, TB doesn't come away looking so good.

The truth is barring some crazy examples like Hall for Larsson or any trade Berghevin makes, there's always a two-way risk of any big trade turning out to be a stinker for either team. With trades like this where its clearly "now" players due for raises in exchange for futures, the risk is even more. I don't think any of the guys we got back are particularly risky beyond the scope of the whole trade.

 

[Ola]

I guess we can just agree to disagree re: Howden because I’m seeing something differently than you. Howden was a key cog on that Canada team and was a beast defensively. Idk how you can compare him to Arty who was always more of an offensive-minded player, but then again, I think we’re truly differeing in how we define a PF. What you described doesn’t really define a PF to me. Crosby does all of that with regularity, but does that make him a PF? I think the disconnect is knowing how to play with the puck in tight spaces and be efficient with it in the slot. I see Howden do that plentily, kinda like what TJ Oshie does in Washington. That’s the style I attribute more to Howden rather than a PF lunchpail guy like Maroon or Max Jones

Yeah you are right on the PF thing, I sometimes use it as a term for a winger that has a more limited role on his line, including going to the net and working the boards.

Like think Pouliot — Brassard and Zucc took all the responsibilities when it came to driving the play up ice and to set up things, Pouliot created space for them, drove to the net and was strong on the puck along the boards. Was Pouliot a PF? Of course not a Cam Neely copy, but in contrast if you get what I mean. It’s a very common role, is there a name for it?

My point is — I think Howden has a bigger shot at making it on a scoring role in that type of role as Pouliot had with Brass and Zucc. Someone who aren’t expected to drive the puck up ice, beat a trap and so forth, but that can play next to two more skilled players and do the things Pouliot did for Zucc and Brass. Go to the net, open space, be strong on the puck along the boards.

 

[Ola]

And Mac, just to explain what I see, if we agree that Howden isn’t as talented as Anisimov — where is his offense going to come from?

AA has a career best of 44 pts, and that was in a No 1 C role with plenty of ice time and special teams. If the more talented player in Anisimov average like 30-40 pts in his prime — how are Howden getting to those levels?

 

[NYR Viper]

And Mac, just to explain what I see, if we agree that Howden isn’t as talented as Anisimov — where is his offense going to come from?

AA has a career best of 44 pts, and that was in a No 1 C role with plenty of ice time and special teams. If the more talented player in Anisimov average like 30-40 pts in his prime — how are Howden getting to those levels?

I don't think AA's issue was talent. It's that the moves he made at the AHL level don't work at the NHL level. He may be more talented but someone else's game could translate better. For example, I wouldn't call Kreider more skilled than Anisimov, but he gets better results.

 

[Levitate]

And Mac, just to explain what I see, if we agree that Howden isn’t as talented as Anisimov — where is his offense going to come from?

AA has a career best of 44 pts, and that was in a No 1 C role with plenty of ice time and special teams. If the more talented player in Anisimov average like 30-40 pts in his prime — how are Howden getting to those levels?

AA had 45 in 64 games with Chicago

AA's biggest issue IMO was his skating was a touch slow and kept him from using his skills the way he did in the AHL. Also less of an in front of the net player than it seems like someone like Howden is.

I'm not making any predictions about Howden, I haven't seen any of his play, but being more talented in some ways does not guarantee you success over someone else at the NHL level.

Ryan Callahan has a career high of 54 points and 29 goals and he certainly wasn't more talented or even as talented as Ansimov in many respects.

Is Callahan more talented than Howden? Or did Callahan just find ways to maximize his talents at the NHL level? Perhaps Howden manages to do the same thing?

 

[Mac n Gs]

And Mac, just to explain what I see, if we agree that Howden isn’t as talented as Anisimov — where is his offense going to come from?

AA has a career best of 44 pts, and that was in a No 1 C role with plenty of ice time and special teams. If the more talented player in Anisimov average like 30-40 pts in his prime — how are Howden getting to those levels?

Ok, I’m starting to see what you’re saying now when you describe Howden. Also, I really wouldn’t say it’s a skill issue with Howden. He does have skill and he will score in the NHL, but it really depends on the role he’s put in. Anisimov, as much as I like him, kinda peaked early regarding his offense. I mean he only managed a 20-20 year with Kane/Panarin as his linemates two years ago.

If it makes sense, Howden gets by with a lower offensive skill level because of how well-rounded the rest of his game is. It’s why I don’t think it’s crazy that he could become a solid 2C that’s a 20-20 guy since the other components of his game will elevate his linemates

 

[YoSoyLalo]

The problem with AA is the dude moves in slow motion, both physically and mentally. He has a nice shot, but his release is slower than molasses. He can stick handle, but he’s not gonna walk around anybody with how slow he does it. He can play D, but he’s not shutting anyone down.

He’s a player with good offensive talent without the brain to really process that talent as quickly as he needs to.

 

[Phoicon]

The problem with AA is the dude moves in slow motion, both physically and mentally. He has a nice shot, but his release is slower than molasses. He can stick handle, but he’s not gonna walk around anybody with how slow he does it. He can play D, but he’s not shutting anyone down.

He’s a player with good offensive talent without the brain to really process that talent as quickly as he needs to.

AA peaked in his point-per-game year in the AHL. Basically, he was exactly the same player as he was that year in each of his following NHL seasons.

What you want to see from Howden is progress in the next 2 seasons in the AHL. To keep working.

So many players go from good to very good (Point) from very good to great (Barzal) thanks to working on their game or skating or what not. You have to have the character and the brains to make progress happen.

 

[Fitzy]

And Mac, just to explain what I see, if we agree that Howden isn’t as talented as Anisimov — where is his offense going to come from?

AA has a career best of 44 pts, and that was in a No 1 C role with plenty of ice time and special teams. If the more talented player in Anisimov average like 30-40 pts in his prime — how are Howden getting to those levels?

Skill doesn't necessarily translate into points. AA was more skilled than Dubi and Cally, they outproduced him during their prime years.

 

[kovazub94]

AA peaked in his point-per-game year in the AHL. Basically, he was exactly the same player as he was that year in each of his following NHL seasons.

What you want to see from Howden is progress in the next 2 seasons in the AHL. To keep working.

So many players go from good to very good (Point) from very good to great (Barzal) thanks to working on their game or skating or what not. You have to have the character and the brains to make progress happen.

More or less. Just wanted to maybe clarify your point that when it comes to prospects development as a fan (or a scout) you're hoping that certain players development projectile turns steeply up and you get the most of the possible upside.

If I recall McD early reasonable projections were as a top 4, not 1D. So there's a hope or chance that one of the prospects Gorton acquired at TD would turn out the same.

 

[Joey Bones]

So Moose Jaw is out. They were #2 in the final CHL rankings. Soo may go out--they're 3-3 and play a home game tonight to decide that series. They were ranked #1 in the final CHL rankings.

Wow crazy!!

 

[Trxjw]

Artie's flaw is that his pace of execution isn't quite up to snuff in the NHL. He's just a bit too slow in everything he does, otherwise he's likely a very high end shutdown center who can chip in 60-65 points.

I don't think Howden is a highly skilled player, but his ability to process the game is elite and that's what's going to make him a great player in the NHL. He can play with bangers in a checking role, he can be a driver on a middle line, or be the worker on a line with high skill players. That versatility just cannot be undersold, IMO. I'm very excited to have him in the org and I think he's going to turn a lot of heads next season.

 

[nyr2k2]

Timmy Getts is without a point, but Soo is well on their way to a Game Seven win over Owen Sound. They're up 7-3 in the third.

 

[nyr2k2]

Soo held on to win 9-7. Kingston also advances. Gettinger and Day. Conference Finals. They could end up playing each other in the Finals. Also for a Memorial Cup spot. Hajek will be in the Memorial Cup since his team, Regina, is hosting.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Soo held on to win 9-7. Kingston also advances. Gettinger and Day. Conference Finals. They could end up playing each other in the Finals. Also for a Memorial Cup spot. Hajek will be in the Memorial Cup since his team, Regina, is hosting.

9-7 in a game 7. WOW!

 

[nyr2k2]

9-7 in a game 7. WOW!

Yeah Soo was up 8-3 in the third when Owen Sound scored three straight to make it 8-6. Owen Sound outscored Soo 5-3 in a crazy third, but unfortunately had blown it in the first, trailing 4-1 after 20 minutes.

 

[nyr2k2]

So Soo plays Kitchener, who was second in the West. Soo was first in the West with 116 points, and Kitchener had 90. Soo is probably the favorite to win the OHL Championship (Robertson Cup) and also the Memorial Cup, so they'll obviously go in as favorites here. Kitchener does have Logan Brown and Logan Stanley, among others, and they are a good team. It won't be easy.

Kingston plays Hamilton. Kingston was third in the East with 81 points. Hamilton won the East with 93 points. Hamilton is a theoretical favorite, but it's important to consider Kingston added Day and Gabe Vilardi, which really strengthened that team. So, it should be a good series--Hamilton dropped only 2 games in their prior series, while Kingston dropped just 3.

 

[Mac n Gs]

So Soo plays Kitchener, who was second in the West. Soo was first in the West with 116 points, and Kitchener had 90. Soo is probably the favorite to win the OHL Championship (Robertson Cup) and also the Memorial Cup, so they'll obviously go in as favorites here. Kitchener does have Logan Brown and Logan Stanley, among others, and they are a good team. It won't be easy.

Kingston plays Hamilton. Kingston was third in the East with 81 points. Hamilton won the East with 93 points. Hamilton is a theoretical favorite, but it's important to consider Kingston added Day and Gabe Vilardi, which really strengthened that team. So, it should be a good series--Hamilton dropped only 2 games in their prior series, while Kingston dropped just 3.

Yeah, Matt Strome and Rob Thomas are having a good playoffs for Hamilton. However, Kingston should win this series

 

[Edge]

Anisimov has spent a lot of his career being a guy who tends to leave you wanting more. That goes back to his pre-draft days, which is exactly why he dropped to the second round in the first place. The talent has always been there, but there were many times when other elements were lacking. For example, in his draft year, it wasn't uncommon for him to be out-hustled, out-muscled and have smaller, less talented players assert themselves over him.

Howden is wired differently, he tends to rise to big occassions, the effort is consistently there, etc.

If he's more successful, and I don't know if he will be, it won't be because he wins skill competitions. It will be because he's smart player who seems to understand what he needs to do to be successful.

When AA was 20, the question was whether he would underachieve. With Howden, the question is whether he will overachieve.

 

[Lays]

Anisimov has spent a lot of his career being a guy who tends to leave you wanting more. That goes back to his pre-draft days, which is exactly why he dropped to the second round in the first place. The talent has always been there, but there were many times when other elements were lacking. For example, in his draft year, it wasn't uncommon for him to be out-hustled, out-muscled and have smaller, less talented players assert themselves over him.

Howden is wired differently, he tends to rise to big occassions, the effort is consistently there, etc.

If he's more successful, and I don't know if he will be, it won't be because he wins skill competitions. It will be because he's smart player who seems to understand what he needs to do to be successful.

When AA was 20, the question was whether he would underachieve. With Howden, the question is whether he will overachieve.

Yup. From what I’ve read and seen from Howden is he’s clutch af. Money in big games and a real leader. Having guys like him, Lias, Lindgren (who also apparently is a leader) in the locker room will be good for this future team. These are the kind of guys the team NEEDS. Players to take control of the locker room and lead the team. I’m all for Lias being captain soon if he continues to progress. Maybe Kreider next year and after him, Lias. Howden (if he progresses) I wouldn’t be surprised to see him wear an A
I really think the Rangers take Farabee with 8th overall. Fits everything they want. At the draft, we added a lot of defensive prospects (Hajek, Lindgren, Rykov, O Gara to a lesser extent but that was most likely filler) I feel like Gorts may think our defense is set(not saying I agree) we didn’t grab one winger prospect, maybe because Gorts is targeting a winger with the 8th overall so he stacked up on defense? Farabee is a leader and local, fits everything Gorts seems to love. It’s just a guess and I’d prefer a dman but I have Farabee at 9th overall on my personal list. I’d be happy with him there

 

[Edge]

Yup. From what I’ve read and seen from Howden is he’s clutch af. Money in big games and a real leader. Having guys like him, Lias, Lindgren (who also apparently is a leader) in the locker room will be good for this future team. These are the kind of guys the team NEEDS. Players to take control of the locker room and lead the team. I’m all for Lias being captain soon if he continues to progress. Maybe Kreider next year and after him, Lias. Howden (if he progresses) I wouldn’t be surprised to see him wear an A
I really think the Rangers take Farabee with 8th overall. Fits everything they want. At the draft, we added a lot of defensive prospects (Hajek, Lindgren, Rykov, O Gara to a lesser extent but that was most likely filler) I feel like Gorts may think our defense is set(not saying I agree) we didn’t grab one winger prospect, maybe because Gorts is targeting a winger with the 8th overall so he stacked up on defense? Farabee is a leader and local, fits everything Gorts seems to love. It’s just a guess and I’d prefer a dman but I have Farabee at 9th overall on my personal list. I’d be happy with him there

Farabee is my personal favorite in this draft. I’d be perfectly happy if he is the pick. I have him 8th on my list — ahead of both Bouchard and Dobson ironically enough.

 

[Beacon]

Our young RDs consists of Pionk, ADA and Zboro. The first 2 are big questinmarks, the last one probably doesn't have the skating to make the NHL. We desperately need RDs and luckily we've got an early pick in an RD-heavy draft. Unless someone else is clearly better, RD is the way to go.