Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats in Post #1; Updated 12.14.18) *Part III*

[Machinehead]

Guys they drafted from the CHL just seemed to rarely work out, whereas they seem to do much better with Swedes and Americans going the college route plus the odd Russian here and there.

They seemed to do much better in terms of finding NHL talent. It's done very little in terms of finding them star talent.

It forces them to project SHL, KHL, USNDTP numbers. Whereas, it's plain as day when a guy in the CHL is dominating his peers.

I'm not saying we have to draft mostly CHL or draft CHL at all, just that we should take BPA regardless of where he comes from. There's a clear dislike of CHL prospects in this organization.

 

[Ola]

They seemed to do much better in terms of finding NHL talent. It's done very little in terms of finding them star talent.

It forces them to project SHL, KHL, USNDTP numbers. Whereas, it's plain as day when a guy in the CHL is dominating his peers.

I'm not saying we have to draft mostly CHL or draft CHL at all, just that we should take BPA regardless of where he comes from. There's a clear dislike of CHL prospects in this organization.

Good point.

I do however think that CHL kids have been valued a bit too high the last years. But the players that do make it are very well rounded and complete.

 

[Siamese Dream]

They seemed to do much better in terms of finding NHL talent. It's done very little in terms of finding them star talent.

It forces them to project SHL, KHL, USNDTP numbers. Whereas, it's plain as day when a guy in the CHL is dominating his peers.

I'm not saying we have to draft mostly CHL or draft CHL at all, just that we should take BPA regardless of where he comes from. There's a clear dislike of CHL prospects in this organization.

Yeah I was going to say if they're not in position to take Hughes, Turcotte or Kakko then maybe we're in trouble. But at the same time yes you're right there's a lot of guys in the CHL looking really good this year in the top 15, which wasn't really the case when they took Kravtsov and Andersson.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

You know what I noticed is conspicuously absent from our prospect pool? Canadians.

What's this team's aversion to the CHL?

There's so many great CHL prospects coming though in 2019. I can smell the reach from here.

I don’t think our CHL scouting has been very good, and I think the higher ups know it. Off the top of my head, the last time few picks in the 1st or 2nd round were Gropp, Halverson, and McIlrath. The good thing is that before the season they hired a new WHL scout to give them some better intel on a handful of guys that could be going in the top 10 this draft

 

[eco's bones]

We only have two CHL'ers but one is Joey Keane who I like more than I ever liked Gropp, Halverson or Day. I think he has real potential.

Hagelin is a Swede but played 4 years for Michigan U. I'd call him a college player.

 

[Mac n Gs]

We only have two CHL'ers but one is Joey Keane who I like more than I ever liked Gropp, Halverson or Day. I think he has real potential.

Hagelin is a Swede but played 4 years for Michigan U. I'd call him a college player.

The depth out of the CHL has been pretty piss poor these last few years, especially from the Q and WHL. The top talent was there, but I don’t really think we’ve missed on anyone significant from 15-17 that I’d be upset about not selecting. This past draft is a bit different, but I’m not starting the feedback loop discussion about our second round draft picks.

2019 is the first draft where I can see the majority of first round picks being equally distributed between OHL, Q, and WHL kids

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We only have two CHL'ers but one is Joey Keane who I like more than I ever liked Gropp, Halverson or Day. I think he has real potential.

Hagelin is a Swede but played 4 years for Michigan U. I'd call him a college player.

Hagelin played in Sweden until he was drafted (SuperElit) and only moved over to play for Michigan post-draft.

 

[eco's bones]

Hagelin played in Sweden until he was drafted (SuperElit) and only moved over to play for Michigan post-draft.

Well the biggest part of his development happens at Michigan U---and he became a flat out big time college hockey star there.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Well the biggest part of his development happens at Michigan U---and he became a flat out big time college hockey star there.

Sure, but he was still drafted out of Sweden. This was more about how the Rangers pick players in the draft

 

[Tawnos]

They seemed to do much better in terms of finding NHL talent. It's done very little in terms of finding them star talent.

It forces them to project SHL, KHL, USNDTP numbers. Whereas, it's plain as day when a guy in the CHL is dominating his peers.

I'm not saying we have to draft mostly CHL or draft CHL at all, just that we should take BPA regardless of where he comes from. There's a clear dislike of CHL prospects in this organization.

Your instinct to put malicious motivation for problems is misguided.

The Rangers haven't had good CHL scouting in years. It isn't that they dislike CHL prospects. Because their scouts are of lesser quality than, for example, their European and NCAA scouts, they're less likely to value those opinions highly. It hasn't burned them, in reality, but it's definitely true that they tend to stay away. I don't see that as being a result of dislike so much as a result of where the strengths in the scouting department are. Hopefully, they're starting to change that with the hiring of Konowalchuk. At the very least, that seems to be a recognition of the problem.

As I've said before, the concept of BPA outside of the very top of the draft is largely a myth.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Some quick bits about most of our prospects. One thing that stood out while I was skimming was that Morgan Barron had 13SOG in his 2 games this weekend

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

After 5 points in 28 games last year, Lundkvist now has 4 in 13. Not bad for a defenseman aged 17/18. I wonder if he will be selected for the u20 team for next week's Four Nations tournament in Hodonin

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

After 5 points in 28 games last year, Lundkvist now has 4 in 13. Not bad for a defenseman aged 17/18. I wonder if he will be selected for the u20 team for next week's Four Nations tournament in Hodonin

http://www.swehockey.se/globalasset...nt-november-9-11-2018/roster_swe_nov_2018.pdf

On the U20 roster for the 4 nations tournament

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Thanks! That's it then. I am going to Hodonin on Sunday instead of Saturday. Kravtsov vs Lundkvist

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Thanks! That's it then. I am going to Hodonin on Sunday instead of Saturday. Kravtsov vs Lundkvist

I can’t wait for a Rangers prospect to name their first born son after you

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I can’t wait for a Rangers prospect to name their first born son after you

One day it will happen. Although the Rangers have made it very easy for me by drafting so many kids from Europe the last 2 drafts haha

Andersson
Chytil (World Juniors and EHT)
Lakatos
Reunanen
Virta
Pajuniemi
Rykov
Shestyorkin
Kravtsov


And then next week Lundkvist

 

[Barnaby]

Your instinct to put malicious motivation for problems is misguided.

The Rangers haven't had good CHL scouting in years. It isn't that they dislike CHL prospects. Because their scouts are of lesser quality than, for example, their European and NCAA scouts, they're less likely to value those opinions highly. It hasn't burned them, in reality, but it's definitely true that they tend to stay away. I don't see that as being a result of dislike so much as a result of where the strengths in the scouting department are. Hopefully, they're starting to change that with the hiring of Konowalchuk. At the very least, that seems to be a recognition of the problem.

As I've said before, the concept of BPA outside of the very top of the draft is largely a myth.

I think that it's either the strength of scouting as you mentioned or a conscious decision to target more guys playing pro/college. Maybe they like the idea of there guys not playing years against against 17 year olds...

 

[Tawnos]

I think that it's either the strength of scouting as you mentioned or a conscious decision to target more guys playing pro/college. Maybe they like the idea of there goes not being judged up against 17 year olds...

How much of that conscious decision would be influenced by scouts with higher standing?

 

[Barnaby]

How much of that conscious decision would be influenced by scouts with higher standing?

I agree with you. I'm sure certain guys hit more often.

I'm just wondering if there's also a thinking that they like guys who can/will go pro against men pretty much right away rather than toiling away putting up video game numbers against kids. It may have nothing to do with it - just spitballing here.

 

[Barnaby]

I just feel like they've targeted Swedish pros and KHL guys a lot... may just be their scouts in those areas or maybe there's a bit more to it. Playing against men... maybe they like them better as developmental leagues... Anything to that?

 

[Tawnos]

I agree with you. I'm sure certain guys hit more often.

I'm just wondering if there's also a thinking that they like guys who can/will go pro against men pretty much right away rather than toiling away putting up video game numbers against kids. It may have nothing to do with it - just spitballing here.

I think that kind of concept is more relevant to European players than NCAA ones, but yeah. These things are multi-faceted.

 

[kovazub94]

I agree with you. I'm sure certain guys hit more often.

I'm just wondering if there's also a thinking that they like guys who can/will go pro against men pretty much right away rather than toiling away putting up video game numbers against kids. It may have nothing to do with it - just spitballing here.

There's certainly some truth in this but the Rangers picked certain Euros that were playing a big chunk of their games in J20-type leagues where the level of play is probably not too different from CHL. I think relative credibility of the Euro scouting staff was more of reason as @Tawnos alluded to.

 

[Edge]

I think there are a few factors to consider when looking at how the Rangers have drafted.

1. We have to take into account the loss of picks from 2013-2016. It's hard to look at a 10 year span when you're missing 40 percent of your picks.

2. With the way the CHL is covered, it's getting harder to find hidden gems when you get beyond the top talents. Those kids are usually identified pretty early and are subsequently selected pretty early. As a result, if you're a team that is consistently picking in the second half of the draft, your probably going to be looking elsewhere to see if you can find those diamonds in the rough. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Rangers starting looking elsewhere when their draft position started coming later.

3. Somewhat in line with the second point, I think they just had other kids like they liked better in 2017 and 2018. But I don't there's a particular dislike for CHL kids, I believe it depends on the draft. When you look at the TDL moves, it basically gave them a 2016 draft back. As such, they nabbed two kids who played in the WHL.

4. This year, there's a very strong crop of CHL kids --- especially in the WHL. I'd say the odds of the Rangers taking a CHL kid, especially from the WHL, are probably higher than years past.

 

[nyr__1994]

I think that it's either the strength of scouting as you mentioned or a conscious decision to target more guys playing pro/college. Maybe they like the idea of there guys not playing years against against 17 year olds...

Another way to look at it is, it is real easy to scout the CHL and every team scouts the crap out of that league. Maybe the NYR have identified a market inefficiency in scouting these other leagues that other teams in the NHL aren't as focused on.

See @Edge above with point #2. He said it way better than I could have

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think there are a few factors to consider when looking at how the Rangers have drafted.

1. We have to take into account the loss of picks from 2013-2016. It's hard to look at a 10 year span when you're missing 40 percent of your picks.

2. With the way the CHL is covered, it's getting harder to find hidden gems when you get beyond the top talents. Those kids are usually identified pretty early and are subsequently selected pretty early. As a result, if you're a team that is consistently picking in the second half of the draft, your probably going to be looking elsewhere to see if you can find those diamonds in the rough. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Rangers starting looking elsewhere when their draft position started coming later.

3. Somewhat in line with the second point, I think they just had other kids like they liked better in 2017 and 2018. But I don't there's a particular dislike for CHL kids, I believe it depends on the draft. When you look at the TDL moves, it basically gave them a 2016 draft back. As such, they nabbed two kids who played in the WHL.

4. This year, there's a very strong crop of CHL kids --- especially in the WHL. I'd say the odds of the Rangers taking a CHL kid, especially from the WHL, are probably higher than years past.

With point no 2 you hit the nail on the head. More and more do you see teams go with European players. New markets opened up