Post-Game Talk: Rangers @ Devils | 2/5/13 | 6 Goalie System Brah!

[Samuel Culper III]

I was against making the trade last season, on the fence about it when it became evident it was going to happen regardless and cautiously optimistic when I heard that we "only" gave up what we did. I am now trying to remain optimistic while withholding judgement for at least 30-40 games

 

[Heyoooo*]

I can't understand why there isn't more of it.

Give us one good reason why.



(Whos got popcorn? This should be good)

 

[SnowblindNYR]

What if I told you Martin Havlat has a higher PPG than Rick Nash.

So what? Martin Havlat is a good player. Not a franchise player and not good are 2 different things. You're just take gratuitous cheap shots at him at this point.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I'd tell you that, if Martin Havlat didn't have health issues, he'd still be a relevant star player in this league.

I agree on Havlat. He was special.

And then injuries. But thank god he didn't play for us. He'd suck and get injured. The system would throw him under the bus too.

So many things wrong right know, and bad memories come up. Like I always though Hank isn't ever gonna be a real shutdown goalie. A game changer. Maybe I never really witnessed that aura I am talking about, but maybe he never has or shows this ability to begin with.

Last game is a good example. You knew at some point, there was that presence of Fatso. After two period we all knew he is there, on top of the game. Picked up dump ins like cherries and threw em right back past us.

With Hank it mostly feels awful, and he is usally packed tight, deep in net. Add games where the D is intimidated, he can't/doesn't pull of a Kahn. No intimidation potential.

I'm not gonna bash him, but he has to light himself up, very soon so must I add.


I think I know why, but not really how to fix that problem.

The way I see it, the dynamic of/the essence of hockey is of two forces. Skill and Intimidation. These two are interconnected, like intimidation decreases your skill and domination enhances it.

I don't want to say we lack both! But the team that figures out the equation right is gonna be on top.


Our problem is, this is how I feel, we get intimidated too easy. The D, in the case of last night, was lacking G, lacking the brick wall. They got intimidated quickly, their skill level dropped. Hank follows through the gutter. The D is skilled, gets intimidated to quickly though.


Now our offense is a different story. All those giveaways on the forecheck are more a skill and system thing, yet have to stop immediately, it is discouraging.

We have two promising kids, and that first line. We are a very skilled team, don't get me worng, but the wealth is not spread evenly on all the lines.

That first line has so much skill, they intimidated each other. Spread the wealth. They are so rich they get scared around each other, scared of short puck on stick time.

And the PP ... good lord. That **** is static, just static. If they accomplish zone presence, which is a miracle then already, they get static! No dynamic! No production!


We need to do something till next game. It is ten games in by then.


This is quite serious you all know. We could end up with a Boston Maple Leaf situation. No first round pick ... for some jelly.

 

[Callagraves]

I agree on Havlat. He was special.

And then injuries. But thank god he didn't play for us. He'd suck and get injured. The system would throw him under the bus too.

So many things wrong right know, and bad memories come up. Like I always though Hank isn't ever gonna be a real shutdown goalie. A game changer. Maybe I never really witnessed that aura I am talking about, but maybe he never has or shows this ability to begin with.

Last game is a good example. You knew at some point, there was that presence of Fatso. After two period we all knew he is there, on top of the game. Picked up dump ins like cherries and threw em right back past us.

With Hank it mostly feels awful, and he is usally packed tight, deep in net. Add games where the D is intimidated, he can't/doesn't pull of a Kahn. No intimidation potential.

I'm not gonna bash him, but he has to light himself up, very soon so must I add.


I think I know why, but not really how to fix that problem.

The way I see it, the dynamic of/the essence of hockey is of two forces. Skill and Intimidation. These two are interconnected, like intimidation decreases your skill and domination enhances it.

I don't want to say we lack both! But the team that figures out the equation right is gonna be on top.


Our problem is, this is how I feel, we get intimidated too easy. The D, in the case of last night, was lacking G, lacking the brick wall. They got intimidated quickly, their skill level dropped. Hank follows through the gutter. The D is skilled, gets intimidated to quickly though.


Now our offense is a different story. All those giveaways on the forecheck are more a skill and system thing, yet have to stop immediately, it is discouraging.

We have two promising kids, and that first line. We are a very skilled team, don't get me worng, but the wealth is not spread evenly on all the lines.

That first line has so much skill, they intimidated each other. Spread the wealth. They are so rich they get scared around each other, scared of short puck on stick time.

And the PP ... good lord. That **** is static, just static. If they accomplish zone presence, which is a miracle then already, they get static! No dynamic! No production!


We need to do something till next game. It is ten games in by then.


This is quite serious you all know. We could end up with a Boston Maple Leaf situation. No first round pick ... for some jelly.

I don't intend to be mean, but when you're wrong, you're wrong. Hank is known for going lights out, god-assisted beast-mode. The players themselves rank him the hardest goaltender to score on.

"Never thought Hank could be a shutdown goalie." Sorry man, but that's the most absurd thing I've ever read on these boards.

 

[Callagraves]

Give us one good reason why.



(Whos got popcorn? This should be good)

Here you go

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I agree on Havlat. He was special.

And then injuries. But thank god he didn't play for us. He'd suck and get injured. The system would throw him under the bus too.

So many things wrong right know, and bad memories come up. Like I always though Hank isn't ever gonna be a real shutdown goalie. A game changer. Maybe I never really witnessed that aura I am talking about, but maybe he never has or shows this ability to begin with.

Last game is a good example. You knew at some point, there was that presence of Fatso. After two period we all knew he is there, on top of the game. Picked up dump ins like cherries and threw em right back past us.

With Hank it mostly feels awful, and he is usally packed tight, deep in net. Add games where the D is intimidated, he can't/doesn't pull of a Kahn. No intimidation potential.

I'm not gonna bash him, but he has to light himself up, very soon so must I add.


I think I know why, but not really how to fix that problem.

The way I see it, the dynamic of/the essence of hockey is of two forces. Skill and Intimidation. These two are interconnected, like intimidation decreases your skill and domination enhances it.

I don't want to say we lack both! But the team that figures out the equation right is gonna be on top.


Our problem is, this is how I feel, we get intimidated too easy. The D, in the case of last night, was lacking G, lacking the brick wall. They got intimidated quickly, their skill level dropped. Hank follows through the gutter. The D is skilled, gets intimidated to quickly though.


Now our offense is a different story. All those giveaways on the forecheck are more a skill and system thing, yet have to stop immediately, it is discouraging.

We have two promising kids, and that first line. We are a very skilled team, don't get me worng, but the wealth is not spread evenly on all the lines.

That first line has so much skill, they intimidated each other. Spread the wealth. They are so rich they get scared around each other, scared of short puck on stick time.

And the PP ... good lord. That **** is static, just static. If they accomplish zone presence, which is a miracle then already, they get static! No dynamic! No production!


We need to do something till next game. It is ten games in by then.


This is quite serious you all know. We could end up with a Boston Maple Leaf situation. No first round pick ... for some jelly.

Hank was never a real shutdown goalie? There are things to criticize him about but that's ridiculous. The guy goes through stretches when he can't stop a beach ball but when he's on no one's better. Just a ridiculous statement.

 

[Jabroni]

Hank was never a real shutdown goalie? There are things to criticize him about but that's ridiculous. The guy goes through stretches when he can't stop a beach ball but when he's on no one's better. Just ridiculous statement.

Can't stop a beach Ball? he's never had that poor of a stretch.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Can't stop a beach Ball? he's never had that poor of a stretch.

He has a month every year when he gives up well over 3 goals a game.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Question to those who went to the game: was anyone else really surprised how low the Devils' organization went last night? During a tv time out they played non stop highlights of 80s-today Devils/Rangers highlights of the Devils owning the Rangers. You know, saves, hits, goals, fights. I can't say I'm mad I'm more disappointed their organization would stoop to something like that. I guess there really is an inferiority complex.

 

[Kane One]

Question to those who went to the game: was anyone else really surprised how low the Devils' organization went last night? During a tv time out they played non stop highlights of 80s-today Devils/Rangers highlights of the Devils owning the Rangers. You know, saves, hits, goals, fights. I can't say I'm mad I'm more disappointed their organization would stoop to something like that. I guess there really is an inferiority complex.

What's the problem?

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

What's the problem?

It's just childish to me, you gotta take shots like that?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's just childish to me, you gotta take shots like that?

No offense but complaining about it seems more childish. I believe they were showing Matteau's goal in the MSG highlights before the game.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

No offense but complaining about it seems more childish. I believe they were showing Matteau's goal in the MSG highlights before the game.

Yeah I understand, but this was mom stop highlights, I guess it's nothing then, just kinda irked me if you know what I mean

 

[The Gloaming]

Yeah I understand, but this was mom stop highlights, I guess it's nothing then, just kinda irked me if you know what I mean

So? Everytime I go to a NYR-Debbies game at MSG, they replay Matteau's game 7 goal a bajillion times.

 

[Kane One]

And MSG is going to show a clip about their history vs the Islanders tomorrow.

 

[JohnC]

Followed by 60 minutes of Potvin sucks chants

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Hank has a poor stretch and suddenly he's not an elite goalie?

Jesus. When it rains, it pours.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Hank has a poor stretch and suddenly he's not an elite goalie?

Jesus. When it rains, it pours.

It's been like this since he entered the league, nothing new. Hockey fans are extremely bipolar and everything is black & white.

 

[Kershaw]

So what? Martin Havlat is a good player. Not a franchise player and not good are 2 different things. You're just take gratuitous cheap shots at him at this point.

Nope. I think it's hypocrisy at it's finest to consider Nash a franchise player when his own ice play suggest otherwise. Nash and Havlat are both 1st line players, nothing more. Yet one is talked up like he is a generational talent.

 

[McRanger]

Nope. I think it's hypocrisy at it's finest to consider Nash a franchise player when his own ice play suggest otherwise. Nash and Havlat are both 1st line players, nothing more. Yet one is talked up like he is a generational talent.

"Generational talent" and "franchise player" are two completely different things. There are so many definitions of the latter that Nash probably fits more than a few of them. I would be surprised if he was ever called the former.

As for Havlat, they have pretty much an identical PPG unless you want to go into several decimals. Nash also has significantly more goals, has played with significantly less talent and is not extremely injury prone.

 

[Kershaw]

"Generational talent" and "franchise player" are two completely different things. There are so many definitions of the latter that Nash probably fits more than a few of them. I would be surprised if he was ever called the former.

As for Havlat, they have pretty much an identical PPG unless you want to go into several decimals. Nash also has significantly more goals, has played with significantly less talent and is not extremely injury prone.

They've had pretty equal linemates in their careers.

Havlat never got the prime ice time in OTT because he was behind Hossa and Alfredsson and played a lot on the 2nd PP unit.

He got to play shotgun with Kane and Toews for one full season with the Hawks. His best linemate before that was Handzus, Vrbata and Rene Bourque.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Jesus Christ, people calm down!

Could we rather talk about the intimidation factor, than about Hank?

Lets see how the intimidation factor goes tonight against the Sticks!

Rangers Hockey Night !


Ps.: Someone pokes at the King and all the peasants go mad

 

[McRanger]

They've had pretty equal linemates in their careers.

Havlat never got the prime ice time in OTT because he was behind Hossa and Alfredsson and played a lot on the 2nd PP unit.

He got to play shotgun with Kane and Toews for one full season with the Hawks. His best linemate before that was Handzus, Vrbata and Rene Bourque.

The only times Havlat played with lousy players was the first season in Chicago and the times he got booted off of Koivu's line in Minny because the two hated each other. Alfredsson plays the point on the PP in Ott. Or at least he used to. When he was healthy Havlat was on that first PP unit.

Aside from a handful of games this year, Nash has never played a single shift with a legit first liner. When Ray Whitney and Antoine Vermette are the highlights, that's scary. He has also spent every shift against top defenders, who basically only had him to stop.

Really, there is no comparison.

 

[Kershaw]

The only times Havlat played with lousy players was the first season in Chicago and the times he got booted off of Koivu's line in Minny because the two hated each other. Alfredsson plays the point on the PP in Ott. Or at least he used to. When he was healthy Havlat was on that first PP unit.

Havlat was 6th in PP TOI/PG with the Sens in 03/04, his best statistical year with them. 2nd Unit PP time after Bondra acquisition. He never really got a chance to break out until he was traded to Chicago. Koivu and Havlat were obviously not a match due to both of them being primarily playmakers. Minnesota didn't have any depth players after Koivu and Havlat played with even worse garbage in Chicago. No different situation then Nash, both put up equivalent point totals, but I'd argue Havlat elevated the play of his linemates much more in his prime years.

Aside from a handful of games this year, Nash has never played a single shift with a legit first liner. When Ray Whitney and Antoine Vermette are the highlights, that's scary. He has also spent every shift against top defenders, who basically only had him to stop.

Really, there is no comparison.

Ray Whitney is absolutely a legitimate first liner in this league and has been in his career. He has a higher career PPG than Nash himself, yet he is considered a player who wasn't good enough for Nash? lol.

Carter, Prospal, Federov aren't slouches either, they are all good hockey players.