Confirmed with Link: Rangers Acquire Rights to D Nick DeSimone and 4th-Round Pick (2022) for F Brett Howden

[Levitate]

I also don't think it's worth fretting over Tampa's success with McDonagh. The Rangers traded him because they were rebuilding and didn't want to afford McDonagh's next contract. It was the right move, even if the return wasn't great. That McDonagh went on to win 2 cups with Tampa doesn't by itself mean it was a bad trade for the Rangers, the Rangers were never keeping him to begin with and wouldn't have been winning a cup with him.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The rangers were 4 and 2 in 6 games he was out (8 points). They were 3-2-1 in the 6 games after he came back (7 points). They were 2-3-1 in the game right before (5 points).

The difference wasn't Quinn as much as it wasn't playing the bruins and penguins....

The rangers handled the caps well all season...and the flyers were in total meltdown mode when. We played them (not just that game but the preceding games).

The covid games that Quinn missed as an argument against him so so disingenuous and completely lacks any subtlety or perspective.

You hate quinn. We all get it. There are legitimate arguments you and others have made against him. I just can't take take people seriously when they point to that 6 game stretch as if it meant anything in the large scheme of things.

I never used the argument that this definitively showed the flaws in Quinn. But I dont agree with discounting it completely either.

Pointing to points earned and not to the actual quality of play/competitiveness on the ice is also a flawed counter argument.

I honestly felt like I was watching a different, much better and more competitive team at the time. Which could have been projection from me. Could've been guys coming together to make up for the coach being absent. Coukd have been random luck that they were building towards a hot stretch and it happened to coincide.

Just saying the actual play on ice should be considered more or it's just going in circles. We'll have much more definitive answers this season that's for sure.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

If you reserve the term PF for guys like prime Lucic, there is of course no debating this. Think that like one of the first thing I made clear in my responses in that thread was that I meant as a energy winger who did some of the dirty work for his linemates and threw his body around.

As to McIlrath, he was certainly not some pure stay at home D — in the WHL. That was of course the style he projected to have in the NHL, but he played almost exclusively as the No 3 D for his team in juniors. I think we had some hopes at least of him taking rapid steps after we drafted him. But that didn’t happen. Honestly, I have a hard time figuring out how this could even be a discussion we are having? Facts are facts, he had a 2nd pairing role, played 2nd pairing PP time and even some on the first, and he definitely had ambitions to assume bigger roles. If anything, lol, his defense was a bit all over the place while he was a junior.

Honestly, there were no debating these issues back then and there are definitely none today so I’ll leave it at this. Think those quotes speaks for themselves and the best argument I’ve seen made against them was that they were several years after the fact, which in fact was false since they were made three months after the McD trade.

You're really dramatic during your entire back and forth with Edge. And you keep saying things that don't make sense. As for why you're having this discussion: You tried to take a victory lap even though you were still wrong and he explained why.

He then further explained why you were wrong. You then showed us screenshots that don't even prove what you think they do. This all kind of comes across as your Bernmeister Boo Nieves moment.

"Well he MIGHT have been a power forward. Well we didnt define what a PF was"

You had an idea that was based solely on his size.

Someone more informed explained why that was very unlikely to be something we'd get out of Howden (bc it doesn't match his game). Howden separately didn't have the requisite skill to hang in the league and also had a shit coach who overplayed him without improving him. Somehow, that's led to you making the leap to "I was right about him being a power forward, haha!"

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Agreed.

will be posting and moaning about how gallant doesn't play his best players enough mins and gives too much time to bums who shouldn't be out there.

And if they're right and Gallant is doing that, then what? How does that magically prove Quinn was right or wrong?

You're vehemently shooting down the idea of " just a 4 game sample size" and " you don't know the context of that moment in the clip you showed"

So wait. 4 game sample size is completely irrelevant and absolutely nothing during that sample could possibly matter at all...

Yet there's context in the couple of SHIFT sample size Quinn MAY have had in that one game?

And coaches routinely change entire lines based on small sample sizes consisting of a few games or even a few shifts?

My first response I tried to keep really level and Im trying to do that here but honestly as I read further and further it felt like you're just reaching for every excuse to turn away almost every criticism of Quinn. You're not even pointing out the good, you're just conjuring endless hypotheticals and ways to deflect pretty legitimate criticism.

And you're doing it so strongly that it really clashes with the lack of any real argument or evidence you're giving.

This board has a whipping boy thing and it can be bad bc of how irrational and overboard it can get.

It also has a holy saint thing where guys get defended no matter what by certain people. Our execs and Quinn were blindly defended by guys like TB and that crew. ADA somehow has his blind defenders, Hank had his (Literally no goal in any game was ever his fault lol). They're both just as bad.

 

[Zynbanejad]

I also don't think it's worth fretting over Tampa's success with McDonagh. The Rangers traded him because they were rebuilding and didn't want to afford McDonagh's next contract. It was the right move, even if the return wasn't great. That McDonagh went on to win 2 cups with Tampa doesn't by itself mean it was a bad trade for the Rangers, the Rangers were never keeping him to begin with and wouldn't have been winning a cup with him.

yeah I can’t believe people are dwelling on this trade still. I’m just happy for McDonagh

 

[NYR94]

When this trade was first announced the only reason I could think of was Vegas needing a player to fulfill some expansion draft exposure requirement, but then I read that they're exempt from the expansion draft. Good on Drury getting anything for him.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I know the McDonagh trade sucks, but hopefully we get over it soon. You win some, you lose some. Same year we sent Boston 20 games of a broken Rick Nash for Lindgren, a pick that we used to get K'Andre Miller, and a guy we flipped for Ryan Strome. Again, sometimes the scouting comes through and you target the right guys, other times it doesn't pan out. The McDonagh trade can be partially salvaged by Lundkvist, but otherwise, it was one of those that didn't work out. Literally everyone has them.

The worst moves and the hardest to get over usually are because they
A) Seem horrible at the time
B) Have many defenders of the move aggressively appeal to authority as their main argument.
C) Only seem less horrible when you imagine the people in charge just know something you don't
D) Turns out they just f***ed up and it really was just obvious from the get go.

That's why McIlrath will always be such a truly legendary f*** up, too

And for me personally, is why not signing Stralman only to give Dan Boyle's corpse that same exact money will also always be legendary.

We talked about it before but that's why I've always had a low key hatred for the Ryan Graves trade (bc no matter how you slice it, it never made any sense and we took a bath on that trade. )

 

[True Blue]

It also has a holy saint thing where guys get defended no matter what by certain people. Our execs and Quinn were blindly defended by guys like TB and that crew.

Or maybe the crew used logic to craft an argument instead of baying like a bunch of mindless goats?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Or maybe the crew used logic to craft an argument instead of baying like a bunch of mindless goats?

Did you ever get your crew jacket?

 

[True Blue]

Did you ever get your crew jacket?

I did. Just waiting for the right time to brandish it

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

yeah I can’t believe people are dwelling on this trade still. I’m just happy for McDonagh

It kicked off the era we're currently in, and this thread is literally dealing with one of the many L's we took in making that trade. I have to seriously question the motivation behind anyone pretending like it's at all unreasonable for people to discuss the trade here.

I honestly dont remember ever seeing posts from you about this so I the following is not directed toward you but here's what it seems like from some folks:

I know for some people poo pooing this discussion they were the same folks who refused to acknowledge the flaws of the previous GM regime. So any further criticism of the trade is simultaneously a way to poke holes in their stance that everything was definitely totally fine. I can't help but wonder if that's consciously or subconsciously driving some people to bristle at this trade being mentioned even though it's in a perfectly reasonable context.

Which I dont remember right but I thought it might've been Sather who did that trade. maybe Gorton had just taken over or was in charge of making it. (Just double checked, of course it was Gort bc this was after "the letter" duh by me)

 

[EdJovanovski]

yeah I can’t believe people are dwelling on this trade still. I’m just happy for McDonagh

If we had McDonagh who knows if we ended up with Laf & Kakko. I’d never want to go back and change the past even if the return was bad. If you think of Lafreniere as part of the return that’s a deal you make every time lol

 

[Gresch04]

Only 23 1st round talent . Hes had some good glimpses early in his career plus good size . Why not. Good trade for knights

It’s an interesting term “first round talent”. A player is really only first round talent for the solitary moment they were selected in the first round. Everything after that is earned and Howden earned none of that prestige with his play. He plays like free agent talent.

 

[cwede]

Fire Drury! He lost DeSimone for NOTHING!

 

[egelband]

I keep seeing this guy’s name as Nina Simone.

 

[will1066]

I keep seeing this guy’s name as Nina Simone.

Damone from Fast Times, for me

 

[LokiDog]

Guys... what if Howden becomes a piece in an Eichel to Vegas deal??

 

[egelband]

Guys... what if Howden becomes a piece in an Eichel to Vegas deal??

What if Howden turns out to be a Vezina-winning goalie?