Post-Game Talk: Rangers 5 Pens 2

[penguins2946*]

Yeah, I agree with BB on that. Perron-Crosby-Dupuis would be a deadly line. I never really thought Dupuis was a problem on that top line, it was the fact that both Dupuis and Kunitz were on the top line that I thought was the issue. If Sid has a creative winger on the other side, I don't think Dupuis would have been a problem on Sid's line. It's a moot point though, Dupuis is probably never playing again.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I know there hasn't been any word and that it was stated he's pretty much done for the year if not his career, but has anyone remarked anything about his progress?

It would be a hell of a boost if that guy came back (in the right role of course)

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I know there hasn't been any word and that it was stated he's pretty much done for the year if not his career, but has anyone remarked anything about his progress?

It would be a hell of a boost if that guy came back (in the right role of course)

All I can think of is that he's been skating (a few times?) by himself and he's around. The first time it was never reported that he had a blood clot so I doubt they'll report anything.

 

[NMK11]

All I can think of is that he's been skating (a few times?) by himself and he's around. The first time it was never reported that he had a blood clot so I doubt they'll report anything.

So some medical perspective: a blood clot in itself probably isn't something that's going to keep someone from play hockey (per se). It's likely more to do with anticoagulation therapy he's on which would prevent him from having physical contact. Also, there's likely some liability reasons from the organization to keep him off the ice.

One random clot isn't huge, treat it, make sure there's no underlying cause, and then he could probably play again once he's off meds, although it does take time. If he has a second clot or he's found to have some underlying disease, then he's likely done for good.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So once they're back, we have Kunitz-Sid-Perron, Comeau-Malkin-Hornqvist.

It's sort of weird that now that we have four wings that can score on the team (for the first time in forever), we have zero wings that can cover ground quickly. Arcobello, I guess, if he doesn't play center/isn't re-waived. Farnham, if he ever gets called back up.

Comeau can fly. Rust can as well, but who knows if he will ever be called up again this season.

With Comeau, Malkin, Sutter and Crosby, each of the top three lines has at least one guy who can really close on the puck quickly and fly.

The fourth line could have a guy like Rust, but I guess Sill works better there in the coaches minds.

 

[billybudd]

I know there hasn't been any word and that it was stated he's pretty much done for the year if not his career, but has anyone remarked anything about his progress?

It would be a hell of a boost if that guy came back (in the right role of course)

I heard or read a quote from him recently, but I don't remember where.

It was like "I'm training with the goal of returning to play this year. That's still the plan." He sounded determined, but not at all taking it for granted that he'd ever actually be cleared. So, like, him actually coming back isn't exactly a thing that JR should be planning around, I wouldn't hope.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

As another pointed out they have proven that they CAN play the way they need to. If you can do it once you can do it when it counts. They never once proved that to me for most of Bylsma's time as HC since 2009. That is a huge difference.

Let's hope that they are sandbagging it for now.

They showed at times last year - even in the Rangers series - that they could play the right way, and looked unbeatable. Unfortunately there is nothing in this team's past that would indicate that the right way to play is something they're capable of turning on "when it matters."

I don't know if it's realistic or not and I'm sure most people would hate the idea, but it might be a blessing if Pascal recovers for the playoffs and gets put with Sid and DP. Adds speed and defense to a pair that could use it and 9 doesn't need the puck and plays in traffic, so it's not like he can screw them up.

Who could argue with that? At the very least he's a very good 3rd liner who fills in various roles depending on what Johnston sees. If Geno is struggling without creativity beside him, Bennett becomes L2 RW, Dupuis L3 RW, and Hornqvist L1 RW. In that case:

Perron-Crosby-Dupuis/Hornqvist
Comeau-Malkin-Hornqvist/Bennett
Kunitz-Sutter-Bennett/Dupuis
Spaling-Goc-Downie

 

[ProgOg]

I heard or read a quote from him recently, but I don't remember where.

It was like "I'm training with the goal of returning to play this year. That's still the plan." He sounded determined, but not at all taking it for granted that he'd ever actually be cleared.

He had an interview in a recent ITR, I think. Said the Penguins need to make a deep playoff push so he gets the time to return and play again this season.

I don't think the Penguins are planning 14-15 with his return in mind.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

When you have lost over 100 man games in December alone (as a reference the Rags have only lost 50 man games all season) what is there to work on? And with whom? Half the team (God I hope) you are playing with in December will not be there when it counts. Just get through without any more injuries to key players. I can see some appeal in that. If you drop a few who the **** cares?

As another pointed out they have proven that they CAN play the way they need to. If you can do it once you can do it when it counts. They never once proved that to me for most of Bylsma's time as HC since 2009. That is a huge difference.

Let's hope that they are sandbagging it for now.

The injuries were a significant setback, I'll give you that. There is still plenty to work on though, especially when you consider that the callups all play the same system. Injuries shouldn't have a ton of impact on guys who are focused on learning to play the right way. Poor puck management, passing up open shots, fishing for stretch passes, not covering for pinches, etc should all be improving regardless of personnel. If anything, there should have been more emphasis on the details with all of the callups. This is what concerns me, not the losses. I honestly don't care if they play .500 the rest of the way, as long as they start playing a more sound, winning style of hockey.

Also, if they can play the right way when it counts, then they need to prove it and win some big games. They didn't show up against the Isles or the Rags. They lose their minds against the Flyers. Those are as big of games as we'll have during the regular season.

It is still early and there is a lot of hockey to be played but I am officially concerned with their progress.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

So some medical perspective: a blood clot in itself probably isn't something that's going to keep someone from play hockey (per se). It's likely more to do with anticoagulation therapy he's on which would prevent him from having physical contact. Also, there's likely some liability reasons from the organization to keep him off the ice.

One random clot isn't huge, treat it, make sure there's no underlying cause, and then he could probably play again once he's off meds, although it does take time. If he has a second clot or he's found to have some underlying disease, then he's likely done for good.

This is Dupuis' second blood clot, though.

 

[NMK11]

This is Dupuis' second blood clot, though.

Oh, thought this was his first. I know Vokoun had more than one though.

And I get the injuries, but this team right now is only down three impact players: one top 6 winger, one tweener, and a top 4 defenseman. I know they mean a lot to this team, but the idea that we're going to go into the playoffs with everyone healthy is a pipe dream. Need to be able to beat top teams with 2-3 regular guys out.

All that being said, I think the recent slide has been just that, a slide. I think a lot of the doom and gloom is out of proportion. Looking at the standings we're down in points but also in games, and this team will hit a hot streak soon to match this cold one.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Speaking of injuries, we have to keep in mind the Rags and Caps have had very good fortune in the health dept this season. I'm not sure about the Isles, though.

While not an excuse, it is a big factor. If the Pens had their luck with injuries, this would be a different team.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I don't know if it's realistic or not and I'm sure most people would hate the idea, but it might be a blessing if Pascal recovers for the playoffs and gets put with Sid and DP. Adds speed and defense to a pair that could use it and 9 doesn't need the puck and plays in traffic, so it's not like he can screw them up.

I have little doubt that 39-87-72 is the most productive line that can be created from any 3 components, but I also have a feeling they'll be behind a bit when the puck changes possession. I like Perron, but that seems to be something of a risk with him so far.

I hadn't thought about it, but Pascal would be fine as a true 3rd wheel with those two. Comeau and Geno give you plenty of speed on the 2nd line, especially coupled with PH's "game speed".

It's really Kunitz that hurts your top 6.

 

[StaalForOne]

Speaking of injuries, we have to keep in mind the Rags and Caps have had very good fortune in the health dept this season. I'm not sure about the Isles, though.

While not an excuse, it is a big factor. If the Pens has their luck with injuries, this would be a different team.

Right, the Rags only injured player last game was Tanner Glass. So even when they do get injuries it actually benefits them. Imagine what thats like.

 

[cygnus47]

Speaking of injuries, we have to keep in mind the Rags and Caps have had very good fortune in the health dept this season. I'm not sure about the Isles, though.

While not an excuse, it is a big factor. If the Pens has their luck with injuries, this would be a different team.

True, but its not the fact that we're losing that is an issue. If we played well but ultimately couldn't get that one goal because we didn't have the depth, or if 3 lines played well but one line lost us the game because we didn't have all our horses then that would be great and there'd be nothing to worry about. We're simply not playing the right way against the teams that are familiar with us, which has been a trend for a few years now and bodes poorly for the playoffs, regardless of our lineup.

I'm personally not giving up hope that MJ will turn us back in the right direction, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing on the ice at the moment.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

True, but its not the fact that we're losing that is an issue. If we played well but ultimately couldn't get that one goal because we didn't have the depth, or if 3 lines played well but one line lost us the game because we didn't have all our horses then that would be great and there'd be nothing to worry about. We're simply not playing the right way against the teams that are familiar with us, which has been a trend for a few years now and bodes poorly for the playoffs, regardless of our lineup.

I'm personally not giving up hope that MJ will turn us back in the right direction, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing on the ice at the moment.

Every season has ebbs and flows. It's a roller coaster ride, always is.

Aside from a few rare cases, even the eventual cup winners hit slumps and play ******.

I'm not really as concerned as most people are. I like seeing them face regular season adversity, because despite the injury nightmare, this team hasn't been challenged the last couple of years. They have coasted.

Maybe having sand kicked in their face by their division opponents will get them tuned up. Or maybe people are right and they have too many complacent guys. If so, at least JR will see that and make changes before the deadline or in the summer.

 

[KIRK]

Every season has ebbs and flows. It's a roller coaster ride, always is.

Aside from a few rare cases, even the eventual cup winners hit slumps and play ******.

I'm not really as concerned as most people are. I like seeing them face regular season adversity, because despite the injury nightmare, this team hasn't been challenged the last couple of years. They have coasted.

The catch involved with saying 'adversity is good' is that there needs to be something that leads you to believe the team facing the adversity is equipped to do so.

What happened with the Pens going onto the cup win, they faced all kinds of it over the preceding few years. Remember Sid going down in 2008. Then falling out of the playoff hunt. I mean, that team faced it, conquered it, and didn't fear it.

It's why you don't sweat a bad Hawks loss or where the Kings are in the standings in January as a fan of one of those teams.

The Pens? Sorry, I don't see it. You've got the same rotten six of voices, far too many tenured vets who are allowed and even encouraged to think they're every bit as important as Sid and Geno (which IMO just reinforces Sid's and Geno's natural inclinations to keep quiet and do their leading on the ice).

And, then there's the minor issue where the team isn't built around Sid and Geno (i.e., prioritizing the difference between what they and their peers can do) and the balanced team actually has a meh mix in the bottom six (when all are healthy) and a horrid mix on defense.

Jiggy, I keep going back to it. The Pens need to be buyers and sellers at the deadline.

Give away Adams for the sake of the room. Make Kunitz available, even if part of the return is cap space, because on this team he SHOULD be a 3rd liner (and 3.75M third liners are luxuries, not needs). Martin, if the return is a first or better in terms of value, should be available. Ehrhoff, if he wants out, too. And, yes, Sutter. He's a middling 3C who doesn't produce and is going to want to be paid more than a team with bigger priorities should be paying (not saying 'give him away', just saying if, as with Martin, the value is there, even if some of the return is future value).

At the same time, look short term rental values if you have spots to fill (only give secondary assets) and put primary assets into play for long term solutions.

As I wrote elsewhere, what I'd be looking to do is to move Kunitz and Martin and maybe then use that space to maybe deal significant futures for a long term and legit top six solution and maybe then rent in a small deal a 'lesser' defenseman who maybe has a little of that jam the Pens defense needs.

Something like that. Buy and sell, because right now, to compete with anyone absent big changes, we need to add a top six winger for Geno, slot Comeau and Kunitz into the bottom six with Sutter, Goc, Downie, and Spaling, then significant change the mix of defense, and finally pray that when the playoff adversity comes this extended core forgets the last five years.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Bah, they're alot closer to turning that corner than under the previous regime.

This team gets average goaltending, a few moves/changes on D(or maturing of the young D they have already), and a few changes up front and this team is gonna be a hard one to stop.

It just may not happen this year is all.
I'm fine with that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The catch involved with saying 'adversity is good' is that there needs to be something that leads you to believe the team facing the adversity is equipped to do so.

What happened with the Pens going onto the cup win, they faced all kinds of it over the preceding few years. Remember Sid going down in 2008. Then falling out of the playoff hunt. I mean, that team faced it, conquered it, and didn't fear it.

It's why you don't sweat a bad Hawks loss or where the Kings are in the standings in January as a fan of one of those teams.

The Pens? Sorry, I don't see it. You've got the same rotten six of voices, far too many tenured vets who are allowed and even encouraged to think they're every bit as important as Sid and Geno (which IMO just reinforces Sid's and Geno's natural inclinations to keep quiet and do their leading on the ice).

And, then there's the minor issue where the team isn't built around Sid and Geno (i.e., prioritizing the difference between what they and their peers can do) and the balanced team actually has a meh mix in the bottom six (when all are healthy) and a horrid mix on defense.

Jiggy, I keep going back to it. The Pens need to be buyers and sellers at the deadline.

Give away Adams for the sake of the room. Make Kunitz available, even if part of the return is cap space, because on this team he SHOULD be a 3rd liner (and 3.75M third liners are luxuries, not needs). Martin, if the return is a first or better in terms of value, should be available. Ehrhoff, if he wants out, too. And, yes, Sutter. He's a middling 3C who doesn't produce and is going to want to be paid more than a team with bigger priorities should be paying (not saying 'give him away', just saying if, as with Martin, the value is there, even if some of the return is future value).

At the same time, look short term rental values if you have spots to fill (only give secondary assets) and put primary assets into play for long term solutions.

As I wrote elsewhere, what I'd be looking to do is to move Kunitz and Martin and maybe then use that space to maybe deal significant futures for a long term and legit top six solution and maybe then rent in a small deal a 'lesser' defenseman who maybe has a little of that jam the Pens defense needs.

Something like that. Buy and sell, because right now, to compete with anyone absent big changes, we need to add a top six winger for Geno, slot Comeau and Kunitz into the bottom six with Sutter, Goc, Downie, and Spaling, then significant change the mix of defense, and finally pray that when the playoff adversity comes this extended core forgets the last five years.

Are you saying you would rather see them coast again and not face adversity? Because that's the root of the problem we have seen for three years now. I don't like seeing them get pissed on, but in the end I know it's probably what needs to happen with this team.

We know how coasting in the regular season has worked out. So I welcome the adversity. Some of our fan base may fear it, but I truly believe this team needs kicked in the teeth to force change. The last couple of years they were winning, but many of us knew it wasn't the right way. Other posters poked fun at us when we said it, then pointed to their record, but they just didn't get that winning and not doing it the right way, spells trouble.

So nothing changed. Now new voices like Perron can be heard. Downie. Comeau. Hornqvist. Those guys all battle and play with heart. Let's see which attitude wins out here now that this team is facing adversity. Those guys that don't want to fight back can be weeded out now and not come playoff time.

 

[KIRK]

Are you saying you would rather see them coast again and not face adversity? Because that's the root of the problem we have seen for three years now. I don't like seeing them get pissed on, but in the end I know it's probably what needs to happen with this team.

We know how coasting in the regular season has worked out. So I welcome the adversity. Some of our fan base may fear it, but I truly believe this team needs kicked in the teeth to force change. The last couple of years they were winning, but many of us knew it wasn't the right way. Other posters poked fun at us when we said it, then pointed to their record, but they just didn't get that winning and not doing it the right way, spells trouble.

So nothing changed. Now new voices like Perron can be heard. Downie. Comeau. Hornqvist. Those guys all battle and play with heart. Let's see which attitude wins out here now that this team is facing adversity. Those guys that don't want to fight back can be weeded out now and not come playoff time.

I'm saying whether they coast and face adversity later or face adversity now and start winning more as guys get healthy and maybe we add a deadline rental or two to the mix (with whatever meager cap space we have), the mix in terms of the team and voices is insufficient to allow them to overcome said adversity.

New voices can be heard but not in the way you want. When JR changed things, what did he really do: Neal was the big trade, and in terms of the voices and their roles in the room, it was the EASY thing to do. He added some people with good voices, sure. But, guys like Kunitz still own that room. Guys like Adams are allowed and even encouraged to feel as if they're every bit as important as Sid and Geno (and we know the evidence of that). And, then you have Sid and Geno. They're naturally inclined not to be vocal, and the way this room is constructed just reinforces that.

I posted this in another thread: Some people have talked about not wanting an Evander Kane because he's arrogant and immature. Maybe he is. And, maybe on some teams, that would be a bad thing. But, on this team, I'd love nothing more than a couple of guys who have talent, a bit of cockiness, and are skating reminders that Sid and Geno are THEIR guys. Where Sid and Geno lead, THEY will follow.

For as good as Geno played in 2012 and as good as he's playing this year, I prefer the Geno who played with Malone in 2008 or Talbot in 2009. That Geno played with BALLS. I wish there was a better way to describe it, but he played like a guy who knew that he had guys who wouldn't just talk the talk . . . they'd follow him to the gates of hell and have his back when Satan showed his face. Sid used to play like that once too.

You know, the mix in terms of personnel is off and this team does need to prioritize building around Sid and Geno, even if it means having a lesser 3C, but I think the bigger issue is that it needs an exorcism of the room. The Perron's and the Downie's of this team would've been the Armstrong's and the Talbot's of 7-8 years ago EXCEPT you've got a management team AND coaching staff that lets the tenured vets drown out their voices.

IMO, for as much as we fault Therrien for a lot, that's one thing I always appreciated him getting: This was supposed to be Sid's and Geno's team. The guys around them, yeah, they were going to be talkers, but they were going to be talkers who always knew and acted like guys who knew this was Sid's and Geno's team. Moore got uppity about his role. Same with LeClair and Recchi. THEY were expendable. Even if the Pens got nothing in return, the culture was positively reinforced . . . addition if only by subtraction.

It's why I'm saying 'buy' and 'sell'. Exorcise the room of the faux veteran leaders. Bring in more voices like Perron and Downie if you want, because guys like that know this is Sid's and Geno's team. Get rid of the voices that, by intent or no, are crowding out Sid and Geno. Give me voices that lead but also set the table for and encourage Sid and Geno to lead. As I said, they are naturally inclined to be quiet, but man did guys like Malone, Armstrong, and Talbot ever make sure they were never TOO quiet.

Yeah, I'm ******* tired of watching this team get pissed on. And, buying and selling may mean an early exit that may or may not happen anyway if we stay the course, yet again. Personally, I think it's going to keep happening until the mix of voices in the lockerroom are addressed, and you have to buy and sell to make that happen.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Are you saying you would rather see them coast again and not face adversity? Because that's the root of the problem we have seen for three years now. I don't like seeing them get pissed on, but in the end I know it's probably what needs to happen with this team.

We know how coasting in the regular season has worked out. So I welcome the adversity. Some of our fan base may fear it, but I truly believe this team needs kicked in the teeth to force change. The last couple of years they were winning, but many of us knew it wasn't the right way. Other posters poked fun at us when we said it, then pointed to their record, but they just didn't get that winning and not doing it the right way, spells trouble.

So nothing changed. Now new voices like Perron can be heard. Downie. Comeau. Hornqvist. Those guys all battle and play with heart. Let's see which attitude wins out here now that this team is facing adversity. Those guys that don't want to fight back can be weeded out now and not come playoff time.

I guess the question is if this team was destroying other teams right now, would most here be planning the parade? I wouldn't be.

So you have to ask yourself if doing the opposite is just as unreasonable. A string of crappy games in December should be taken with the same grain of salt as a string of dominating games in October.

Are either meaningless? No. But limited in meaning and overreacting to either is ridiculous. Leave that to fans of teams who are not used to the playoffs and the lack of correlation of the regular season and the playoffs.

In the end the real season does not start until late April and honestly nothing this team does good or bad will effect me one way or another going into the real season, given what we have seen in past playoffs. Given that MJ is basically despite his age a rookie coach. It could go either way and I completely reserve judgment until then.

A little more of me feeling the need to post like this and I will have to change my name.

 

[KIRK]

I guess the question is if this team was destroying other teams right now, would most here be planning the parade? I wouldn't be.

So you have to ask yourself if doing the opposite is just as unreasonable. A string of crappy games in December should be taken with the same grain of salt as a string of dominating games in October.

Are either meaningless? No. But limited in meaning and overreacting to either is ridiculous. Leave that to fans of teams who are not used to the playoffs and the lack of correlation of the regular season and the playoffs.

In the end the real season does not start until late April and honestly nothing this team does good or bad will effect me one way or another going into the real season, given what we have seen in past playoffs. Given that MJ is basically despite his age a rookie coach. It could go either way and I completely reserve judgment until then.

A little more of me feeling the need to post like this and I will have to change my name.

Indifferent-Until-Playoffs-Fan?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm saying whether they coast and face adversity later or face adversity now and start winning more as guys get healthy and maybe we add a deadline rental or two to the mix (with whatever meager cap space we have), the mix in terms of the team and voices is insufficient to allow them to overcome said adversity.

New voices can be heard but not in the way you want. When JR changed things, what did he really do: Neal was the big trade, and in terms of the voices and their roles in the room, it was the EASY thing to do. He added some people with good voices, sure. But, guys like Kunitz still own that room. Guys like Adams are allowed and even encouraged to feel as if they're every bit as important as Sid and Geno (and we know the evidence of that). And, then you have Sid and Geno. They're naturally inclined not to be vocal, and the way this room is constructed just reinforces that.

I posted this in another thread: Some people have talked about not wanting an Evander Kane because he's arrogant and immature. Maybe he is. And, maybe on some teams, that would be a bad thing. But, on this team, I'd love nothing more than a couple of guys who have talent, a bit of cockiness, and are skating reminders that Sid and Geno are THEIR guys. Where Sid and Geno lead, THEY will follow.

For as good as Geno played in 2012 and as good as he's playing this year, I prefer the Geno who played with Malone in 2008 or Talbot in 2009. That Geno played with BALLS. I wish there was a better way to describe it, but he played like a guy who knew that he had guys who wouldn't just talk the talk . . . they'd follow him to the gates of hell and have his back when Satan showed his face. Sid used to play like that once too.

You know, the mix in terms of personnel is off and this team does need to prioritize building around Sid and Geno, even if it means having a lesser 3C, but I think the bigger issue is that it needs an exorcism of the room. The Perron's and the Downie's of this team would've been the Armstrong's and the Talbot's of 7-8 years ago EXCEPT you've got a management team AND coaching staff that lets the tenured vets drown out their voices.

IMO, for as much as we fault Therrien for a lot, that's one thing I always appreciated him getting: This was supposed to be Sid's and Geno's team. The guys around them, yeah, they were going to be talkers, but they were going to be talkers who always knew and acted like guys who knew this was Sid's and Geno's team. Moore got uppity about his role. Same with LeClair and Recchi. THEY were expendable. Even if the Pens got nothing in return, the culture was positively reinforced . . . addition if only by subtraction.

It's why I'm saying 'buy' and 'sell'. Exorcise the room of the faux veteran leaders. Bring in more voices like Perron and Downie if you want, because guys like that know this is Sid's and Geno's team. Get rid of the voices that, by intent or no, are crowding out Sid and Geno. Give me voices that lead but also set the table for and encourage Sid and Geno to lead. As I said, they are naturally inclined to be quiet, but man did guys like Malone, Armstrong, and Talbot ever make sure they were never TOO quiet.

Yeah, I'm ******* tired of watching this team get pissed on. And, buying and selling may mean an early exit that may or may not happen anyway if we stay the course, yet again. Personally, I think it's going to keep happening until the mix of voices in the lockerroom are addressed, and you have to buy and sell to make that happen.

**** me. I just read that Malkin has had 13 different wingers this year. That's bananas.

Perron man, that cat hates to lose. Crosby used to be like that and maybe Perron's attitude is waking up that side of Crosby again. I know he has felt a ton of pressure lately, and maybe lost some of that passion for the game.

You can't force other guys to play hard, but facing adversity weeds out the passengers. The resilant guys will step up. The passengers can step to the back of the bus.

Better to have this happening now, than the playoffs, like we have seen again and again. By then it's too late.

Always better to do your weeding early.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Indifferent-Until-Playoffs-Fan?

It just is odd to be the (graded on a curve) optimist in the room. Not a position that I am used to being in.

If I am jaded people here need the suicide hotline.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It just is odd to be the (graded on a curve) optimist in the room. Not a position that I am used to being in.

If I am jaded people here need the suicide hotline.

People are afraid, so they lash out and say stupid **** and give up on them.

Just how it goes.

It's just hockey though. Nothing to be afraid of.