Post-Game Talk: Rangers 5 Pens 2

[systemsgo]

If Bennett has to go to Sutter, couldn't at least Downie move up to Sid's line and Kunitz down to the third pairing? Either of our top lines have looked far better with Downie in for Spaling/Kunitz/other deadweight.

 

[Fordy]

let's try and relax. mj has had his preferences before, and he's proven that he's willing to change them if they aren't working. he has given lines a look, sometimes longer than we'd like, then been willing to move on

this is 100% bylsma paranoia. i don't like the lines he likes, but they still are only a couple swaps away from what i think would be ideal. let's have a little faith, trust that mj isn't db and will change his mind if something really isn't working

 

[ProgOg]

I'd take Spaling for Kunitz at the moment.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

let's try and relax. mj has had his preferences before, and he's proven that he's willing to change them if they aren't working. he has given lines a look, sometimes longer than we'd like, then been willing to move on

this is 100% bylsma paranoia. i don't like the lines he likes, but they still are only a couple swaps away from what i think would be ideal. let's have a little faith, trust that mj isn't db and will change his mind if something really isn't working

I have actually quite liked MJ's management of the team, having to deal with injuries and the like. I just think that even if we had the full roster we all wanted, the attitude and emphasis would still bring the team down. There is nowhere near enough emphasis on physicality or standing up for teammates.

 

[IcedCapp]

this team is amazing.

Just a year ago, people were like, "WHY DOES SID GET KUNITZ? IT SHOULD BE MALKIN! WHY DO THEY HATE MALKIN!"

Now it's, "Why does Sid get Kunitz? give him to Malkin! WHY? DO THEY HATE MALKIN? He's SID'S PROBLEM!"

 

[ProgOg]

I think most want Sutter to get Kunitz.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

let's try and relax. mj has had his preferences before, and he's proven that he's willing to change them if they aren't working. he has given lines a look, sometimes longer than we'd like, then been willing to move on

this is 100% bylsma paranoia. i don't like the lines he likes, but they still are only a couple swaps away from what i think would be ideal. let's have a little faith, trust that mj isn't db and will change his mind if something really isn't working

A decent amount of it is, Disco kind of broke us. But, my concern is that it works well enough until it's too late to effectively change it.

Like, Sutter-Bennett does work, Malkin-Bennett is just more important; I liked Hornqvist more with Crosby but he wasn't Dupuis with Malkin; Kunitz can be covered for until the playoffs expose him; Perron on the RW isn't crippling right now but it's not maximizing him; Malkin not having a winger who can create on their own won't be a problem until it is, etc. Johnston also keeps going back to SB and Kunitz in the top 6 and he's trying MH again.

 

[ProgOg]

Nothing surprising here.

 

[IcedCapp]

Seriously. You gotta wonder sometimes who's running the team, the players or the coaches, cause they just can't be this blind, can't be.

the one thing that's bothered me, if the popular opinion is to be believed (that Sid is controlling the usage of Dupuis and Kunitz) is that no one with this team has had the spine to sit down with Sid and say, "look, we get that you like continuity, we get that you have a comfort level with these players, but if you want to be remembered as a truly great player, you're going to have to let us do what's best for the team, even if that means you not playing with Kunitz and Dupuis"

 

[IcedCapp]

I think most want Sutter to get Kunitz.

I think most want one of the other 29 teams in the league to get Kunitz, but the contrast from a year ago is hilarious to me

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

the one thing that's bothered me, if the popular opinion is to be believed (that Sid is controlling the usage of Dupuis and Kunitz) is that no one with this team has had the spine to sit down with Sid and say, "look, we get that you like continuity, we get that you have a comfort level with these players, but if you want to be remembered as a truly great player, you're going to have to let us do what's best for the team, even if that means you not playing with Kunitz and Dupuis"

Haha wouldn't it be funny if that is the situation and Sid just responded with "No."

 

[Asuna]

the one thing that's bothered me, if the popular opinion is to be believed (that Sid is controlling the usage of Dupuis and Kunitz) is that no one with this team has had the spine to sit down with Sid and say, "look, we get that you like continuity, we get that you have a comfort level with these players, but if you want to be remembered as a truly great player, you're going to have to let us do what's best for the team, even if that means you not playing with Kunitz and Dupuis"

Don't want to offend the captain?? idk, it's a joke and truly baffling sometimes. I thought the goal was to win, no matter how you do it.

 

[Pancakes]

Ultimately who cares if Bennett is put with Sutter? It's not like Malkin is getting two bum wingers. Comeau is a very good fit there.

Kunitz is the issue, not Comeau or Horny.

 

[IcedCapp]

Ultimately who cares if Bennett is put with Sutter? It's not like Malkin is getting two bum wingers. Comeau is a very good fit there.

Kunitz is the issue, not Comeau or Horny.

I have never been impressed with Hornqvist and Malkin together.

Crosby and Hornqvist, you could argue, haven't been much better, but I would say that's because Crosby and Hornqvist have never had a winger who can do what Perron does, and without that, those two just aren't a great fit.

 

[Michael8771*]

I think most want Sutter to get Kunitz.

TBH I have more issue with Sutters production than Kunitz. Sutters been nearly invisible for quite some time now.

 

[mpp9]

Crosby and Hornqvist, you could argue, haven't been much better, but I would say that's because Crosby and Hornqvist have never had a winger who can do what Perron does, and without that, those two just aren't a great fit.

Hmm. I recall battling you on this point for great lengths earlier in the season when Kunitz, Sid and PH were broken up.

 

[IcedCapp]

Hmm. I recall battling you on this point for great lengths earlier in the season when Kunitz, Sid and PH were broken up.

Yea, the stretch after they got put back together with Downie and the Corpse of Chris Kunitz were less than impressive. The first 10-15 games of the year, with Crosby and Hornqvist, were better than anything Malkin and Hornqvist have done. I don't think this is flip flopping or having revisionist history. Hornqvist will need a very specific winger to work with either of the Pen's top-two centers. Perron or Comeau (though I think Comeau - Malkin - Hornqvist has been a thing already) might do the trick. I don't think Hornqvist should be glued to either line until they find where he's best.

I'm also wondering if you just read what you want or you purposefully misread things to create a situation that doesn't exist. I don't know, could go either way.

 

[mpp9]

Yea, the stretch after they got put back together with Downie and the Corpse of Chris Kunitz were less than impressive. The first 10-15 games of the year, with Crosby and Hornqvist, were better than anything Malkin and Hornqvist have done. I don't think this is flip flopping or having revisionist history. Hornqvist will need a very specific winger to work with either of the Pen's top-two centers. Perron or Comeau (though I think Comeau - Malkin - Hornqvist has been a thing already) might do the trick. I don't think Hornqvist should be glued to either line until they find where he's best.

I'm also wondering if you just read what you want or you purposefully misread things to create a situation that doesn't exist. I don't know, could go either way.

The point was that KCH was not a longterm answer and breaking them up didnt mean much in the grand scheme of things. Yet you were going on and on about it at the time.

I read just fine.

 

[IcedCapp]

The point was that KCH was not a longterm answer and breaking them up didnt mean much in the grand scheme of things. Yet you were going on and on about it at the time.

I read just fine.

I don't think you can. I said breaking up Hornqvist and Crosby was an issue. Not Kunitz.

Glass may be in order. Or, ya know, moving to Egypt, so you can have an excuse for being so close to denial.

 

[mpp9]

I don't think you can. I said breaking up Hornqvist and Crosby was an issue. Not Kunitz.

Glass may be in order. Or, ya know, moving to Egypt, so you can have an excuse for being so close to denial.

You just said Crosby and PH werent much better together than Malkin and PH. Yet, it was a crime in your eyes when they were broken up earlier this season.

I agree that Kunitz sucks, and Perron, Sid and PH should be a line.

 

[cassius]

I hated when we prioritized the 2nd line based on Staal's preferences.. now we're doing it based on Sutter's preferences.

DB had a well documented bromance with Adams.. MJ's mancrush on Sutter is beyond words

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I'd take Spaling for Kunitz at the moment.

I would too, but if Kunitz goes to the third line, then you're better off with Perron/Sid/Downie or PH.

With our current roster, what I think we'll end up with by the post season is, reading the MJ pairing tea leaves:

Perron / Sid / Downie
Comeau / Geno / PH
Kunitz / Sutter / BB
Spaling / Goc / Adams

Swapping Downie and PH for fit. I'd love to see Downie with Geno, I think he can stir up a bit of Talbot magic. And obviously, I'd much prefer Adams not be there.

We do need a big bodied fast winger in the top 6, even if he's not a legit top 6 guy in terms of skill. Ideally play that guy with Geno. I think Sid/Perron are set with guys on our current roster.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Ever wonder if to a degree the Pens are just punching the clock right now?

The vets have seen how little dominating the regular season means. And remaining healthy has to be a concern for most of them given what each has gone through in years past.

It wouldn't be the worse thing if they treated this season as a glorified preseason. Work on the new system, rest players for when it counts.

That could be kind of comforting if, say, they dialed back effort/physicality and continued to work on their game and new schematics. But I'm just not seeing the improvements that would accompany that approach. We've had a lot of injuries but I can't really think of any area that has significantly improved over the last 20-30 games.

I'm leaning more towards them treating this as recess than preseason.

I will say that Sid and Geno have looked much better lately but at the same time their turnovers kill me. I want to see them leading by example there.

Just to add, I'm in no way giving up on this team. I could see them going far but right now I'm pretty concerned about their lack of progress.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That could be kind of comforting if, say, they dialed back effort/physicality and continued to work on their game and new schematics. But I'm just not seeing the improvements that would accompany that approach. We've had a lot of injuries but I can't really think of any area that has significantly improved over the last 20-30 games.

I'm leaning more towards them treating this as recess than preseason.

I will say that Sid and Geno have looked much better lately but at the same time their turnovers kill me. I want to see them leading by example there.

When you have lost over 100 man games in December alone (as a reference the Rags have only lost 50 man games all season) what is there to work on? And with whom? Half the team (God I hope) you are playing with in December will not be there when it counts. Just get through without any more injuries to key players. I can see some appeal in that. If you drop a few who the **** cares?

As another pointed out they have proven that they CAN play the way they need to. If you can do it once you can do it when it counts. They never once proved that to me for most of Bylsma's time as HC since 2009. That is a huge difference.

Let's hope that they are sandbagging it for now.

 

[billybudd]

I would too, but if Kunitz goes to the third line, then you're better off with Perron/Sid/Downie or PH.

With our current roster, what I think we'll end up with by the post season is, reading the MJ pairing tea leaves:

Perron / Sid / Downie
Comeau / Geno / PH
Kunitz / Sutter / BB
Spaling / Goc / Adams

Swapping Downie and PH for fit. I'd love to see Downie with Geno, I think he can stir up a bit of Talbot magic. And obviously, I'd much prefer Adams not be there.

We do need a big bodied fast winger in the top 6, even if he's not a legit top 6 guy in terms of skill. Ideally play that guy with Geno. I think Sid/Perron are set with guys on our current roster.

I don't know if it's realistic or not and I'm sure most people would hate the idea, but it might be a blessing if Pascal recovers for the playoffs and gets put with Sid and DP. Adds speed and defense to a pair that could use it and 9 doesn't need the puck and plays in traffic, so it's not like he can screw them up.

I have little doubt that 39-87-72 is the most productive line that can be created from any 3 components, but I also have a feeling they'll be behind a bit when the puck changes possession. I like Perron, but that seems to be something of a risk with him so far.