Random off-season talk about Datsyuk

[GoAwayDanCleary]

If you're bored at work like me:



The "goal" he scored against Montreal was the best imo. Every goal he scores he does subtle plays that only he would do. Dats makes empty netters epic.

Click to read more...

 

[Flowah]

Alpha version of hockey's WAR (wins above replacement)

guess who's #1 since 05..

We're so screwed when he retires.

Please Larkin. Save us.

 

[jkutswings]

I'd be ok with Fedorov eventually making it to the rafters. Despite my frequent criticism of him while he was here, he did have an impressive overall body of work. Not a slam dunk guy like Lidstrom or Yzerman, but a guy who eventually gets there.

I kinda see Pavel Datsyuk in the same light.

Some of the best offensive creativity I've ever seen, coupled with a great tenacity on the backcheck, is a very rare combination. But maybe what most holds him back a bit is the lesser success of the team, relative to the Yzerman/Fedorov/Lidstrom era, which I suppose is about as much a "not his fault" kinda factor as you can get, since he's not the one sitting on his hands at the trade deadline or during the summer. So accounting for his lack of a supporting cast, I'd say Pavs gets in as well.

But I guess I'm about the only one on this board that just doesn't think Henrik Zetterberg ever belongs in the rafters. Great puck posession stats, but absolutely nothing that makes me awestruck. Decades from now, I'll still shake my head at how rare a talent Lidstrom was, or the way Yzerman changed his game and willed multiple rosters to championships, or the yo-yo-in-a-phone-booth moves that Datsyuk so effortlessly pulled off time and again. But Hank? Very very good player, but nothing that will make me give that low whistle and think, "Man, he was one for the ages." I honestly think that he gets a bit of a bump just from the fact that his name has been joined at the hip with Datsyuk for so long, and Pavel is definitely a better player.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure I'm on an island with that one, but that's just how I see it. Oh well, it's not like that's going to influence what actually happens either way.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I'd be ok with Fedorov eventually making it to the rafters. Despite my frequent criticism of him while he was here, he did have an impressive overall body of work. Not a slam dunk guy like Lidstrom or Yzerman, but a guy who eventually gets there.

I kinda see Pavel Datsyuk in the same light.

Some of the best offensive creativity I've ever seen, coupled with a great tenacity on the backcheck, is a very rare combination. But maybe what most holds him back a bit is the lesser success of the team, relative to the Yzerman/Fedorov/Lidstrom era, which I suppose is about as much a "not his fault" kinda factor as you can get, since he's not the one sitting on his hands at the trade deadline or during the summer. So accounting for his lack of a supporting cast, I'd say Pavs gets in as well.

But I guess I'm about the only one on this board that just doesn't think Henrik Zetterberg ever belongs in the rafters. Great puck posession stats, but absolutely nothing that makes me awestruck. Decades from now, I'll still shake my head at how rare a talent Lidstrom was, or the way Yzerman changed his game and willed multiple rosters to championships, or the yo-yo-in-a-phone-booth moves that Datsyuk so effortlessly pulled off time and again. But Hank? Very very good player, but nothing that will make me give that low whistle and think, "Man, he was one for the ages." I honestly think that he gets a bit of a bump just from the fact that his name has been joined at the hip with Datsyuk for so long, and Pavel is definitely a better player.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure I'm on an island with that one, but that's just how I see it. Oh well, it's not like that's going to influence what actually happens either way.

I will be mad if Datsyuk doesnt make the Rafters cause Zetteberg wasnt good enough.

 

[RedWingzz]

I would genuinely feel insulted if anyone else ever wore #13 in Detroit, it just would not feel right. So yes, in my opinion there is no question that his jersey is retired, and he's also a lock to be in the HHOF. Yes, I'm biased, but I still believe these are both no brainers. If he is able to get 131 more points (more than doable, back to back 65 point seasons), he reaches 1000 pts, all in a Red Wing uniform, while being heralded as one of the best 2 way forwards in the history of the game. How could you not retire his number?

 

[Frk It]

I would genuinely feel insulted if anyone else ever wore #13 in Detroit, it just would not feel right. So yes, in my opinion there is no question that his jersey is retired, and he's also a lock to be in the HHOF. Yes, I'm biased, but I still believe these are both no brainers. If he is able to get 131 more points (more than doable, back to back 65 point seasons), he reaches 1000 pts, all in a Red Wing uniform, while being heralded as one of the best 2 way forwards in the history of the game. How could you not retire his number?

Worst part is, he'd already have 1000 pts if not for the stupid lock-outs.

 

[Vladdy84]

Pavel is a God.

 

[Flowah]

Worst part is, he'd already have 1000 pts if not for the stupid lock-outs.

No doubt. He went PPG if you look at the year before and after the 05 lockout. Same with before and after the mini 13 lockout. They weren't quite his peak, which was probably 06-09, but damn if he wasn't productive all those years. If he stays reasonably healthy both seasons, he's easily a lock for 1000 points right now. Such a milestone...

Also, can someone explain why playoff points aren't included? He's got 113 of those.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

No doubt. He went PPG if you look at the year before and after the 05 lockout. Same with before and after the mini 13 lockout. They weren't quite his peak, which was probably 06-09, but damn if he wasn't productive all those years. If he stays reasonably healthy both seasons, he's easily a lock for 1000 points right now. Such a milestone...

Also, can someone explain why playoff points aren't included? He's got 113 of those.

I've never understood that either. Playoff performance is valued so highly by the hockey community that its kind of odd that when we talk about career points, we don't include playoff points.

Anyhow Dats is and probably always will be my favorite player of all time. I don't think we'll ever see a player like him again. One of the most unique and entertaining players of all time.

 

[Winger98]

I've never understood that either. Playoff performance is valued so highly by the hockey community that its kind of odd that when we talk about career points, we don't include playoff points.

Anyhow Dats is and probably always will be my favorite player of all time. I don't think we'll ever see a player like him again. One of the most unique and entertaining players of all time.

I think playoff points are looked at seperately because the game changes so much from the regular season, from the way the refs "manage" the game (or just leave their whistles in their gloveboxes) to the quality of competition. Also, it provides an unfairness to guys on teams who didn't make the playoffs. It's easier to look at players of a specific era and compare them when they all have the same regular season games to judge by.

One last thought, while playoff points aren't added to career points, they are still kept track of and noted. A fair bit of Fedorov's love comes from his incredible post-season production, and guys like Claude Lemieux build careers on reputation of showing up and producing in the playoffs. So it's not like playoff production doesn't carry significant weight of its own.

 

[MrGeno101]

Datsyuk is a special player, one of a kind...

 

[DRW204]

not sure where this belongs-
but what are your guy's thoughts on the Wings employing a San Antonino Spurs/Greg Popovich like approach where they rest their aging starters (Ie: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli) on back-to-backs, when the team is in a comfortable win streak/ahead of the pack or lesser competition (ie: when they played the Knicks this year)? help give the young guys a bigger roll in certain games and rest dats and Z

 

[hot dog]

not sure where this belongs-
but what are your guy's thoughts on the Wings employing a San Antonino Spurs/Greg Popovich like approach where they rest their aging starters (Ie: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli) on back-to-backs, when the team is in a comfortable win streak/ahead of the pack or lesser competition (ie: when they played the Knicks this year)? help give the young guys a bigger roll in certain games and rest dats and Z

Can't do that when you're hardly making the playoffs every year. Lighter minutes is more practical than outright rest. Best case would be an early clinch where we can rest Z/D a bit down the stretch, but it's not all too likely Detroit enters the top 3 or so of the standings regardless of how this offseason plays out.

 

[RedWingzz]

Not sure if anyone here goes on the polls page on HF, but there is currently a poll ranking the best players in the NHL, and they have reached #12 and Pav is still nowhere to be found on the list.

Am I biased to still consider him a top 10 player in the NHL?

 

[Roy S]

Not sure if anyone here goes on the polls page on HF, but there is currently a poll ranking the best players in the NHL, and they have reached #12 and Pav is still nowhere to be found on the list.

Am I biased to still consider him a top 10 player in the NHL?

Haven't checked, but centers like Toews, Datsyuk, Kopitar and Bergeron usually get underrated in those things while pure scorers like Ovechkin and Stamkos get overrated.

 

[Shaman464]

Not sure if anyone here goes on the polls page on HF, but there is currently a poll ranking the best players in the NHL, and they have reached #12 and Pav is still nowhere to be found on the list.

Am I biased to still consider him a top 10 player in the NHL?

Keith
Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Ovie
Weber
Karlson
Price
Tavares
Johnson

Would be my list of ten players going into 2015-16 that are better than Datsyuk.

He is a top ten center, but not top ten player.

 

[Henkka]

Haven't checked, but centers like Toews, Datsyuk, Kopitar and Bergeron usually get underrated in those things while pure scorers like Ovechkin and Stamkos get overrated.

Yep. Preventing points is not as sexy for fans than scoring them.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Not sure if anyone here goes on the polls page on HF, but there is currently a poll ranking the best players in the NHL, and they have reached #12 and Pav is still nowhere to be found on the list.

Am I biased to still consider him a top 10 player in the NHL?

Nope, Hes just as good as Toews if not better, (this year anyway)

 

[Acoustic]

Was browsing that thread about Bergeron's ranking and guys have Datsyuk in the range of Thornton, Johnson, Sedin, with Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron over him.

Let us take a minute and appreciate how good Datsyuk was at center for this team.

63 games, 26 goals and 65 points, great defensively as usual. One less point that the great Toews in 18 less games and outscored Bergeron, and Kopitar in in 16+ less games. 4th in PPG for a center in one of the lowest scoring seasons in years.

I mean, I'm fine with other teams' fans still underrating Datsyuk, but he is 36 and still easily a top 5 center in the league when he's on the ice. Sure his health is a knock on him, and that's fine. Put him in the game and there aren't many players I'd take over him.

Apparently though, Kopitar, Toews, Stamkos, and Bergeron are all better despite getting outscored/played in less games by a 36 year old.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Was browsing that thread about Bergeron's ranking and guys have Datsyuk in the range of Thornton, Johnson, Sedin, with Toews, Kopitar, Bergeron over him.

Let us take a minute and appreciate how good Datsyuk was at center for this team.

63 games, 26 goals and 65 points, great defensively as usual. One less point that the great Toews in 18 less games and outscored Bergeron, and Kopitar in in 16+ less games. 4th in PPG for a center in one of the lowest scoring seasons in years.

I mean, I'm fine with other teams' fans still underrating Datsyuk, but he is 36 and still easily a top 5 center in the league when he's on the ice. Sure his health is a knock on him, and that's fine. Put him in the game and there aren't many players I'd take over him.

Apparently though, Kopitar, Toews, Stamkos, and Bergeron are all better despite getting outscored/played in less games by a 36 year old.

It will be a sad day once Datsyuk retires.. Datsyuk deserves more Selkes and awards.. And cups

Johnson and Thorton, Sedin better then Dastsyuk or on the same level, Lol

 

[Eggberto]

It will be a sad day once Datsyuk retires.. Datsyuk deserves more Selkes and awards.. And cups

Johnson and Thorton, Sedin better then Dastsyuk or on the same level, Lol

Thornton is easily on the same level as Datsyuk. The dude put up 1 less assist as Datsyuk's best season point wise and although Datsyuk probably has the more impressive hardware collection Thornton still has a Ross and Hart so it's not like he is chopped liver, and the argument could definitely be made that Thornton is a superior player amd Datsyuk is far amd away my favorite player.

 

[Heaton]

Thornton is also one of three (?) players in NHL history to have a 90 assist season.

 

[Frk It]

Thornton is also one of three (?) players in NHL history to have a 90 assist season.

Nah, many more have

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/most-assists-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html

 

[Eggberto]

Thornton is also one of three (?) players in NHL history to have a 90 assist season.

A couple of them at that. For accuracy's sake it is definitely more than 3. According to this site 9 people have more than 90 assists in a season, and like 11 or 12 have 90 assists. None of whom are exactly bad compamy to be with.
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/most-assists-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html

Edit: Beat me to it Frk It lol.

 

[Heaton]

Nah, many more have

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/most-assists-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html

A couple of them at that. For accuracy's sake it is definitely more than 3. According to this site 9 people have more than 90 assists in a season, and like 11 or 12 have 90 assists. None of whom are exactly bad compamy to be with.
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/most-assists-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html

Edit: Beat me to it Frk It lol.

Yeah, this is the stat I was thinking of:

Thornton became only the third player in NHL history to record back-to-back 90-assist seasons, joining Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux.