Value of: Rakell and Manson

[AddyTheWrath]

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[CupInSIX]

Yehhhhhhh...Manson's not fetching that.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Rakell for Ristolainen & 2nd 2022.

 

[GoldiFox]

Yehhhhhhh...Manson's not fetching that.

I would guess that the Canes would pay a 2021 1st + a guy like Morgan Geekie or Haydn Fleury for Josh Manson. Maybe another sweetener on top of that.

Manson would solidify the Canes D for the Playoffs. They need a big crease clearer to put some fear into Tampa/Florida. Plus it creates an interesting situation for the expansion Draft. If the Playoffs go well, maybe the Canes and Manson discuss an extension where Manson gets the 3rd protection slot. Otherwise the Canes expose Skjei and Manson in the expansion draft, lose one, and the cost of that is a late 1st (+ a B asset for Manson) - not too bad to protect the rest of the roster.

 

[MCB]

This was reported a few days ago as bob murray's asking price, I think it's his high first offer to see what counter offers are.

Edit: didn't see the both in the tweet, ignore what I said

 

[CupInSIX]

I would guess that the Canes would pay a 2021 1st + a guy like Morgan Geekie or Haydn Fleury for Josh Manson. Maybe another sweetener on top of that.

Manson would solidify the Canes D for the Playoffs. They need a big crease clearer to put some fear into Tampa/Florida. Plus it creates an interesting situation for the expansion Draft. If the Playoffs go well, maybe the Canes and Manson discuss an extension where Manson gets the 3rd protection slot. Otherwise the Canes expose Skjei and Manson in the expansion draft, lose one, and the cost of that is a late 1st (+ a B asset for Manson) - not too bad to protect the rest of the roster.

That's a yuge price to pay for a guy that's become a poor man's Savard.

 

[Gliff]

Good. Worst case scenario they trade either guy after the ED when teams are more in the market for a guy with term.

 

[dracom]

Rakell for Ristolainen & 2nd 2022.

Eww no thanks

 

[GoldiFox]

That's a yuge price to pay for a guy that's become a poor man's Savard.

The price is relative the the upcoming expansion Draft. At least in some ways. If you are the Canes GM do you:

1) Do nothing at the trade deadline. Expansion Draft comes and you protect Slavin, Pesce, and Bean. This exposes Haydn Fleury and Brady Skjei. Seattle takes Brady Skjei. Now the Canes defense is minus one top-4 D.
2) Do nothing at the trade deadline. Expansion Draft comes and you protect Slavin, Pesce, and Bean. This exposes Haydn Fleury and Brady Skjei. Carolina pays Seattle their 1st round pick to leave their defense alone.
3) Pay a 1st for Manson at the trade deadline. Expansion Draft comes and you protect Slavin, Pesce, and Bean. This exposes Josh Manson, Haydn Fleury, Brady Skjei. Seattle takes Manson and the Canes leave their current top-4 intact.

The only way to keep the current defense pieced together is to pay assets. Would they rather pay Ron Francis those assets directly or pay up now for Josh Manson who also helps them in their Playoff run? I don't think the cost will be that different unless the Canes are fine with losing both Hamilton (UFA) and Skjei (Seattle) this offseason.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Good. Worst case scenario they trade either guy after the ED when teams are more in the market for a guy with term.

Carolina seems to prefer acquiring guys with term at the deadline, JS. There's certainly an argument in favor of doing that, as the potential bidders are smaller in size and the saved deadline space can fit big contracts in more seamlessly than at the start of the year.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Rakell for Ristolainen & 2nd 2022.

Reinhart for Manson + 2nd

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

We’re looking for armia lehkonen a protected 1st and maybe a prospect like Harris

if you don’t have those assets don’t bother

 

[StreetHawk]

I would guess that the Canes would pay a 2021 1st + a guy like Morgan Geekie or Haydn Fleury for Josh Manson. Maybe another sweetener on top of that.

Manson would solidify the Canes D for the Playoffs. They need a big crease clearer to put some fear into Tampa/Florida. Plus it creates an interesting situation for the expansion Draft. If the Playoffs go well, maybe the Canes and Manson discuss an extension where Manson gets the 3rd protection slot. Otherwise the Canes expose Skjei and Manson in the expansion draft, lose one, and the cost of that is a late 1st (+ a B asset for Manson) - not too bad to protect the rest of the roster.

Carolina at this point looks to be losing a Dman in the ED as they would protect Slavin and Pesce for sure. Hamilton is UFA, and Bean, Fleury, Skjei, and Garinder are all eligible for the ED. If they add Manson to the group and protect him, my guess is that Francis would take Bean as there is still untapped upside with him. Without Manson, I would bet that Seattle would take Fleury if they wanted to go cheap and spend cap space elsewhere or they could take the more established Skjei.

That's probably the main issue with taking on players with term is that there is the Seattle ED to consider. Pay a higher price for the non-rental player, plus then you risk your 3rd best eligible Dman or your 5th best forward by adding another Dman that you would protect depending on which protection optin you choose.

 

[WidgitRibbit]

We’re looking for armia lehkonen a protected 1st and maybe a prospect like Harris

if you don’t have those assets don’t bother

Can definitely see that as the asking price. And it’s realistic and not unreasonable. Nice job

 

[WidgitRibbit]

Carolina at this point looks to be losing a Dman in the ED as they would protect Slavin and Pesce for sure. Hamilton is UFA, and Bean, Fleury, Skjei, and Garinder are all eligible for the ED. If they add Manson to the group and protect him, my guess is that Francis would take Bean as there is still untapped upside with him. Without Manson, I would bet that Seattle would take Fleury if they wanted to go cheap and spend cap space elsewhere or they could take the more established Skjei.

That's probably the main issue with taking on players with term is that there is the Seattle ED to consider. Pay a higher price for the non-rental player, plus then you risk your 3rd best eligible Dman or your 5th best forward by adding another Dman that you would protect depending on which protection optin you choose.

Do you see Canes paying a little extra for Seattle to take someone else out of your Dman that are exposed? Or are they pretty settled on who they are losing and okay with it

 

[GoldiFox]

Carolina at this point looks to be losing a Dman in the ED as they would protect Slavin and Pesce for sure. Hamilton is UFA, and Bean, Fleury, Skjei, and Garinder are all eligible for the ED. If they add Manson to the group and protect him, my guess is that Francis would take Bean as there is still untapped upside with him. Without Manson, I would bet that Seattle would take Fleury if they wanted to go cheap and spend cap space elsewhere or they could take the more established Skjei.

That's probably the main issue with taking on players with term is that there is the Seattle ED to consider. Pay a higher price for the non-rental player, plus then you risk your 3rd best eligible Dman or your 5th best forward by adding another Dman that you would protect depending on which protection optin you choose.

By adding Manson as the most enticing expansion draft option the Canes effectively protect the rest of their roster. Based on Vegas's expansion draft, a late 1st (+ B asset) is about right anyway. May as well get a plus defender for the Playoffs. Then the Canes can focus on re-signing Hamilton.

 

[Roof Daddy]

To ANH: 2021 1st, 2022 1st, Bear, choice of Lavoie/Samorukov, Chiasson (cap purposes), Turris (cap purposes)

To EDM: Rakell, Manson (50% retained)

 

[Llamamoto]

To ANH: 2021 1st, 2022 1st, Bear, choice of Lavoie/Samorukov, Chiasson (cap purposes), Turris (cap purposes)

To EDM: Rakell, Manson (50% retained)

So... Bear + 1st for Rakell and a 1st + Lavoie/Samorukov for Manson?

That's terrible for Edmonton.

I would consider our 1st + Lavoie for Rakell, but Bear should not be available and that's a crazy overpayment for Manson.

 

[McJedi]

So... Bear + 1st for Rakell and a 1st + Lavoie/Samorukov for Manson?

That's terrible for Edmonton.

I would consider our 1st + Lavoie for Rakell, but Bear should not be available and that's a crazy overpayment for Manson.

You forgot the dumping of two terrible contracts off your books. That is definitely part of the equation you conveniently left out.

those are non lottery picks. It’s definitely not too much for Rakell. He’d easily be top six forward in Edmonton.

 

[Llamamoto]

You forgot the dumping of two terrible contracts off your books. That is definitely part of the equation you conveniently left out.

Combined they add up to less than 4 million, and both of their contracts come off the books in 2022. Not terrible contracts, just a bit of cap going back to make it even.

That has a bit of negative value, but not nearly enough to justify trading two 1sts, Bear, and Lavoie/Samorukov for two roster players who only have 1 year left on their contracts.

(And that's coming from a Rakell fan who wants to add him at the deadline)

 

[Moosetache]

I would guess that the Canes would pay a 2021 1st + a guy like Morgan Geekie or Haydn Fleury for Josh Manson. Maybe another sweetener on top of that.

Manson would solidify the Canes D for the Playoffs. They need a big crease clearer to put some fear into Tampa/Florida. Plus it creates an interesting situation for the expansion Draft. If the Playoffs go well, maybe the Canes and Manson discuss an extension where Manson gets the 3rd protection slot. Otherwise the Canes expose Skjei and Manson in the expansion draft, lose one, and the cost of that is a late 1st (+ a B asset for Manson) - not too bad to protect the rest of the roster.

I'd be fine with a 1st and Fleury for BOTH of those guys, but no way for only one of them.

 

[McJedi]

Combined they add up to less than 4 million, and both of their contracts come off the books in 2022. Not terrible contracts, just a bit of cap going back to make it even.

That has a bit of negative value, but not nearly enough to justify trading two 1sts, Bear, and Lavoie/Samorukov for two roster players who only have 1 year left on their contracts.

(And that's coming from a Rakell fan who wants to add him at the deadline)

The term is pretty bad. No one wants to carry two bad contracts on their books thru next season. That has negative value alright. More than you think.

A 2021 1st isn’t all that valuable either. You’re a playoff team, this is a weak draft.

your offer isn’t as enticing as you think it is when you consider the double dump and weak 2021 draft.

 

[WidgitRibbit]

I'd be fine with a 1st and Fleury for BOTH of those guys, but no way for only one of them.

Both? A late first in a bad draft and Fleury doesn’t get you Rakell and Manson. You’re demolishing the entire Ducks organization with that trade. I don’t ever get these boards since I’ve joined.

It’s like mind boggling reading some of this stuff. Like every teams best player on bottom of the league teams are valued at the lowest of the low with no thought whatsoever of what they would do on their team given the opportunity.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I want Suzuki in a deal with Carolina, a 6'1 Center with skill.
Zegras, Suzuki and Lundestrom would become a nice trio. If they draft Beniers or Johnson they can move Zegras back to Wing.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Combined they add up to less than 4 million, and both of their contracts come off the books in 2022. Not terrible contracts, just a bit of cap going back to make it even.

That has a bit of negative value, but not nearly enough to justify trading two 1sts, Bear, and Lavoie/Samorukov for two roster players who only have 1 year left on their contracts.

(And that's coming from a Rakell fan who wants to add him at the deadline)

Combined they add up to less than 4 million, and both of their contracts come off the books in 2022. Not terrible contracts, just a bit of cap going back to make it even.

That has a bit of negative value, but not nearly enough to justify trading two 1sts, Bear, and Lavoie/Samorukov for two roster players who only have 1 year left on their contracts.

(And that's coming from a Rakell fan who wants to add him at the deadline)

I’m kinda with Mcjedi here. It def isn’t terrible for oilers... nor is it really terrible for the ducks... but I can see both teams not loving it.